SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So are you guys saying that a WW may never deny you sex or sexual stuff ever? If a WW is remorseful, does the work yet finds that now and then she doesn't want sex, do you still co Sider that a blow to your manhood and rejection?

Can a woman, or man for that matter, just not be interested now and then?

Or is it because she's a wayward that it doesn't matter how she feels, when you want it she better be ready...?

In case anyone is interested, it might be worthwhile reading “Sex - I want what she’s having” thread in Reconcilation. Not surprisingly, the tone in that thread was completely different.

So are you guys saying that a WW may never deny you sex or sexual stuff ever? If a WW is remorseful, does the work yet finds that now and then she doesn't want sex, do you still co Sider that a blow to your manhood and rejection?

Again, the slippery slope. But I'll try to explain how I look at it, which is from the lens, that, at least in my mind, is as "reasonable" as I can be.

So, let's give the 2 outside examples. W and I are sitting around on a lazy Sat afternoon. Nothing pressing to do, just the 2 of us hanging around and doing stuff together. If I attempt to initiate sex (which is probably because I'm so horny I can't think from looking at her and being around her), yeah, I'd be seriously pissed if she said "No". Why not? "Don't feel like it", before the A, I would have accepted. Now, not so much. So, in this case, no, I don't expect or would accept being denied; generalized to, I don't expect to be denied sex for no reason.

The other case, we're leaving the wife's fathers funeral. We're both very emotional and I ask, "would you like to go find someplace to be alone" with the implication of sex. She says "No", I'd have no problem at all with it. That "advance" was really just me asking if it would comfort her, she said no, and I would feel not the least bit rejected by it.

Now, of course, the 2nd case was contrived, the 1st case, IMHO, is what most people are talking about here. Saying "no" for no reason. And that's a problem, it would be a problem for me with any woman after the A, I'll never live like that again, but it's especially a problem with the WW, because, she's shown me, from her A, that saying "yes" when she had a headache, work to do, a house to clean, and 2 relationships to deal with was nooo problem at all. Because she said yes to the OM every-single-time he asked. If she had her period, it was a BJ, but she always said yes.

Can a woman, or man for that matter, just not be interested now and then?

Define "now and then"? I'll say for me, after the A, I was (and still am) "not interested" a lot. A whole lot. Probably 75% of the time we have sex, I'm not interested. Sex is hard for me now, a ton of mind movies, a lot of voices in my head, it's emotional. I've said "no" exactly 0 times. I'd never say "no" to my wife because I wasn't interested; I'd think "well, this might take awhile" and start to get myself interested. Because I know how important sex is to me; if I start saying no, I start the process of detaching from her emotionally, which, since we're trying to R, isn't what I want. But, I was injured for a week or 2 a few months into R, and, while my W didn't ask, had she during that time, I would have declined sex but given her an orgasm. Because I really couldn't have sex, it just would have been too painful. But I'd never say no, it would have been "Go put on something sexy, I have something else in mind".

Put simply, if she asks me, she's gonna have an orgasm, one way or another. 99% of the time I'll be with me and sex, 1%, maybe something else if I just can't do it. But never "no" unless I'm physically just unable to do anything.

Of course they can deny it every now and then. It's how they act during sex that matters.

But by that same token, there needs to be the same effort put forth into having sex with me that she put into having sex with her AP. I mean, they'd text for hours and then finally meet up and without saying a word, rip clothes off and have wild, animal sex.

I want that same effort. And if she can't/won't do that for me, she'll be single really quickly.

First of all, I wouldn't be in that position in the first place. She would be an Ex and I would be searching for other fish in the sea.

Secondly, because you referenced WW, I will make this a man's argument here.

No one is saying a WW "can never deny". I don't know where you got that one from.

What we are saying is that most guys (at least in my experience) have great sexual fantasies but get themselves into marriages where they often aren't realized but can tolerate it because their wives are loyal and exclusive to them. The pain in being cheated on is very real and destroys this. Then the pain of a wife who cheats, then satisfies hers and another man's fantasies out of wedlock, is both disgusting and disrespectful. Very worthy of divorce. But for a woman to be given the gift of reconciliation (and it is a gift because it is not required and is a lot of hard work)to go back to their husbands and not satisfy their sexual fantasies despite doing so for another piece of shit who apparently 'means nothing to them' is reprehensible, self-centered, conceited and certainly not worthy of reconciliation or marriage.

I have not seen anyone here reference 'sex on demand' that you are insinuating. I am seeing people emphasize that if she can do it for a worthless manwhore, she should be willing to do that and then more for me. For example if I wanted anal, and she refused our whole marriage, then does it for an AP and I somehow decide to reconcile and the next time we are having sex, I ask for her to do anal and she refuses, are we supposed to walk away and say "well good for the other guy. At least he got it from her that way" ?

I don't think so.

If I never bought my wife flowers and nice jewelry but then had an affair with rose pedals, hot tubs, nice wine and 2 karat diamond earrings for the OM, then my wife forgives me and takes me back and I go back to no flowers, hot tubs etc... and then my wife asks me to take her to Caesars and I refuse, why should she accept that ??

By way of your argument, you are insinuating that I should take her to Caesars every weekend. Noone is saying that. People are saying to bring her to Caesars because she wants to go, you love her, and if it was good enough for the AP, it should be the least you can do for her.

I don't understand why some posters on SI always feels like men want to sue force or pressure when all men want to do are best respected.

[This message edited by Western at 2:44 PM, April 3rd (Tuesday)]

No one has to be on all the time, but after a betrayal like this, the BS should not be feeling like their spouse doesn't find them attractive or want sex from them.

What this does to the self-esteem of men and women is tremendous. You have this one person you're to have sex with for the rest of your life, and that person chose to risk losing you to have sex with other people. We know that it wasn't about us after we get some education on this, but the feeling that it was about what we were lacking does not go away on it's own (if ever). I expect that even Beyonce had a moment where she questioned her sex appeal.

The job of the WS in R is to do everything in his or her power to help build that self-esteem back up and reassure us that they do find us sexy and attractive and do have lust for us. That doesn't mean a BS gets to rape a WS or anything over the top ridiculous like that. It doesn't mean the BS gets to demand sex in the grocery store or while the WS is recovering from surgery. It means that the WS should make an extra effort to woo the BS back sexually and build them back up.

They would do a great many things for the AP(s). We all know it. They went through a great deal of trouble to sneak around and meet with them. If the BS cannot get extra effort to connect with them, what is the point? You might as well give up. It isn't something that the BS should even have to ask for. It's literally the most obvious thing that the WS should do.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 2:46 PM, April 3rd (Tuesday)]

good calling out the hypocrisy, Loukas

I agree with devastatedDee, Rideitout and GoldenR

The job of the WS in R is to do everything in his or her power to help build that self-esteem back up and reassure us that they do find us sexy and attractive and do have lust for us. That doesn't mean a BS gets to rape a WS or anything over the top ridiculous like that. It doesn't mean the BS gets to demand sex in the grocery store or while the WS is recoverying from surgery. It means that the WS should make an extra effort to woo the BS back sexually and build them back up.

They would do a great many things for the AP(s). We all know it. They went through a great deal of trouble to sneak around and meet with them. If the BS cannot get extra effort to connect with them, what is the point? You might as well give up. It isn't something that the BS should even have to ask for. It's literally the most obvious thing that the WS should do.

Dee, you probably don't want to hear this because we've crossed swords in the past, but, OMG, do I love you right now. Quoted for truth above.

I don't disagree with wanting the best of your wife, I disagree with the method of demand instead of working mutually to build a marriage that's satisfying for both partners without upping the AP or punishing or causing hurt to the WS. The focus should be on the two people working to R. Working together to achieve a new and better marriage. I said that if my WH hadn't given me the things I asked for I would have D. I just believe that wayward or not doesn't entitle any bs to sex on demand. I wanted it bad the other night. WH said he wasn't into it and asked to wait until last night. So there was no sex. He cuddled me and we both went to sleep. Last night however we went at it like bunnies.

So I should I D him because he wasn't in the mood one night?

I still believe that good communication is what heals from infidelity. No amount of anal sex is going to heal either party. Just my feeling.

But RH's problem is that he has talked about it with his wife. It did no good.

I asked that earlier and didn't see a response. I'm sorry I missed it. Did he address the lack of sex or sexual acts thing before her A? Did they go for MC and discuss this? Is she resistant to discussing it, it being anything regarding his wants and has always been resistant or is it just now after the A?

I can't speak for her. I can't speak for a wayward because I am not one. I do feel badly for every betrayed male or female as I also feel badly for the betrayers. This is a rotten shit sandwich that destroys us to our core. But I also see how amazing a couple can become when they work together towards a mutually satisfying and happy marriage. Again it takes communication and hard work but it can be done. I just wish it was that way for everyone. Alas it is not. I don't think a woman should be made to feel like she's less than for starting a part of life that's beyond control. Menopause happens to all of us and it will change us. Instead of seeing it as another hit to a man's ego and demand she go for therapy why not communicate the feelings you have and work with her. If she's resisting you then the reasons for that need to be addressed in IC or MC.

I've noticed when I quit asking, the fWW will eventually catch on and try to initiate something. The problem is it doesn't feel like it's an emotional connection, more of a "guilt/ throw a dog a bone occasionally" type of thing to meet her obligation. An appeasement.

Attitude is everything, and so is lack of attitude.

If I just needed to pop my cork, I don't need her to be there. Sex is a time for closeness and commitment, to give each other pleasure and comfort. Is it too much to expect you partner to put in that effort for a marriage?

Redhorse was asked about their communication on this subject. He never answered. I looked for an answer. If I missed it - that would be a key detail.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:06 PM, April 3rd (Tuesday)]

No Twisted it's not to much to ask. But from your other thread are you communicating this to her? Again communication is everything. No need to suffer in silence hoping that the WS gets it. Tell her what you want and need from her. You want more than just popping the cork. (I love that term by the way). What makes her a Fww? I'm curious.

If there's resistance to even communicating from the WS I believe that IC and MC are very much needed to help resolve it. Why is the wayward resisting even just listening to their BS's feelings on an issue, or any issue. I thought that IC and MC (MC after IC) was a thing that was needed for R anyways.

"You give me way too much credit. During R I developed a sexual aversion to my husband. This was after I tried to give my BH what he wanted. It wasn't enough and he wasn't happy. He was angry and I shut down. Those were dark....dark days. 4.5 years later we are past that but the scars remain."

You did not shut down doing those things for your

OM. Apologize for being blunt.

I asked WH a question last night that I'm sure was uncomfortable to answer. See he pops his cork really fast. Every dn time. For me that's frustrating because I like it to go longer than 30 seconds...And I'm sure he does too. So I was curious if this was a just with me issue or of this happened with his OW's too. He said that it happened with them as well. The point is we communicated.

"Provided she did give passionate, loving, generous sex post dday and during R, her inability to maintain that over the longhaul would not be in any way a slam to her efforts or remorse level, at least to me. It's just a marriage that didn't work and an H that had a solid boundary. What more can we do in life?"

This not even comparing an apple to a rock.

Normal for sexual drive and the ability to perform

to decline with age.

[This message edited by oldtruck at 4:42 PM, April 3rd (Tuesday)]

continued lack of sex is a deal breaker for me.

You guys can have whatever rules you want. But that's my rule.

My Wife withheld sex from me during her A and blamed it on menopause. So, personally, I dont give a fuck if she has a good reason now or not.

I was already understanding about that .... and look where it got me!

Good news is I'm not forcing my W to have sex. Ever since she pulled her head out of her ass and realized what she was losing, she is all over me and always wanting it now. More often than me, most times.

and that helps.

I was already understanding about that .... and look where it got me!

Amen, brother! Amen....