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Changing for the reason of improving ones self is believable. Changing because you got caught is bullshit.

Changing for the reason of improving ones self is believable. Changing because you got caught is bullshit

True enough. However, you do not know everyone's situation on here. I did not get "caught", I confessed on my own, though, I don't think it changes any thing about what I said. Getting caught is not what makes people decide to change. We see lots of WS's that change nothing, and they repeat the patterns, and they don't ever find issues with their behaviors.

There are others that see the trauma, understand they have made poor decisions, and want to be better. You can certainly lump us all into that we are proven to lie, cheat, be disgusting. That part is true. And while of course you are welcome to lump us into what we do about that and why, I don't think it's accurate. We can agree to disagree.

I had an EA because I knew a PA would mean the end and I didn’t want that. The EA satisfied that feeling of being wanted. Knowing that I could have sex if I wanted it was enough to hold me over and then I continued to take matters into my own hands

RIO, it appears that Root did exactly what you were inquiring about. As most have said, there is not one type of woman nor one reason for sex.

I am not lumping anyone into on category, I have the utmost respect for someone who see they are going down the wrong path and make changes. What I call BS on are the ones who get caught and suddenly have the fortitude to make changes.

I am not lumping anyone into on category, I have the utmost respect for someone who see they are going down the wrong path and make changes. What I call BS on are the ones who get caught and suddenly have the fortitude to make changes.

Hikingout, I do think people can change. The problem with this sex issue is most, if not all, women posting on this thread mention "good" sex is about how their partner made them feel. This is pretty damn scary to me. Feelings are fleeting, easily manipulated, and situational. Feeling are very easily changed in an instant. Cheating women seem like overly dramatic tweens where everything is polarized as really awesome or the greatest tragedy ever. They seem to be incapable of logically weighing the reward versus the risk or effort involved. It seems ridiculous to blow up your life, especially your children's lives for some short lived feelings. I think this is what RIO was getting at originally.

What I can't figure out is why any WW would want to stay with her BH, especially my WW with me. I completely view her differently no. I have no respect for her. I don't give a shit about her "feelings". Sex is horrible now. If mind movies hit me during the act I get pissed off and sex turns rough and I have to feel like I'm completely using her to finish. Rage can bubble up at odd times and I will unleash a tirade of names and shit upon her that is just fucking terrible and feel absolutely no guilt. I could go on but you get the idea. Yet she "feels" we can repair the damage and get back to "before". It's sad for everyone involved really.

Mrs walloped the issue is why believe anything a wayward says they have exhibited characteristics of being unable to tell the truth Obviously or they wouldn't have had affairs.

I’m not suggesting you take any WS’s word at face value without comfort that they are doing other things to make changes and be authentic and transparent. You can take your statement and apply it to all the people in the world. People lie all the time. Obviously when it comes to our A we are less believable than other people since there’s self preservation and fear that come into play. We have lots of motivation to lie about this. I understand that. So take a look at a WW in context of what else she is doing. My BH always told me actions, not words. But the words became easier to understand and accept after he saw my actions. At the beginning right after DDay, I wouldn’t have believed me either (I think I even said that to him). But now that we’re almost 3 years out, my BH believes and trusts me. That took work.

Not every WW is the same.

The WW that are answering these questions have no reason to lie to strangers on the internet. Most of us are continuously doing the work to live lives of authenticity and integrity. I know I take my R seriously and put in time and effort to both show and speak the truth here and to my BH. So when posters like RIO pose questions to WW's, we answer honestly and offer what insights we can.

Hi Barregirl.

Maybe. But there are posters like me whose BH is also on this site and can read what I write. So I have a motivation to lie if there’s something I don’t want him to know or am scared he’ll find out. Also, I’ve seen people say things just to make them feel better about themselves. Like getting validation from internet strangers weirdly would matter. But I’m very sensitive to that feeling and I can see it happening. I guess what I’m saying is that people lie for all sorts of reasons. To be comfortable that a WW is not lying, her BH should evaluate everything she’s doing, not just what she’s saying. And that will help him figure out if she’s being honest with him or not.

I also agree that people can change. My EX for as long as we were married displayed nothing of the character she showed during her affair. She changed then, just not in a good way. It didn't take much for her to come back to the person she once was. Unfortunately I couldn't change back into the person I once was.

The sex thing baffles me too. We had many different kinds of sex, but the one she liked, and I truly believe she liked, was the one where we took our time, lit candles, and explored each other. What she had with him was him just pounding away, leaving her covered in him, and getting up and leaving. When you profess to like one thing, what is the appeal of risking your 25 year marriage for this? I get the Madonna/Whore thing, but to keep it going more than maybe once or twice is crazy. So when she tells me she hated the sex I don't buy it. I buy she hates the thought of it now, but back then the thrill had to be so big that she was willing to degrade herself.

In the end only thing she got from this whole thing (aside from a destroyed marriage and family) was maybe feeling like as an old woman she could still bag a younger guy. I ask is that enough to risk your whole life? I still don't get it. I wish she would have just flirted with her personal trainer. My life would have been so much better now.

He was running away from himself and he said fuck it when it came to the sex.

This is what my WH said as well. His life at home with me wasn't in a good place, he hated his job, hated himself and the A was an escape from his shitty life at the time.

Last night we got into a very deep conversation and I asked him about sex with his AP. He said "I will give you two words. Systematic & robotic" They were COW's and in the beginning just friends. She boo hooed to him about her shitty marriage and opened the door. He said the ego kibbles in the beginning were great, she liked being around him and it made him feel good. The sex was just the next step in the web of shit even though is wasn't mind blowing. He told me the sex was good, but he also said he's a man and even bad sex is good sex. I had basically cut him off for years prior so ANYTHING he got from her was good.

So I know why he took it physical.

Hikingout, I do think people can change. The problem with this sex issue is most, if not all, women posting on this thread mention "good" sex is about how their partner made them feel. This is pretty damn scary to me. Feelings are fleeting, easily manipulated, and situational. Feeling are very easily changed in an instant. Cheating women seem like overly dramatic tweens where everything is polarized as really awesome or the greatest tragedy ever. They seem to be incapable of logically weighing the reward versus the risk or effort involved. It seems ridiculous to blow up your life, especially your children's lives for some short lived feelings. I think this is what RIO was getting at originally.

I hear what you are saying, and it is totally and completely ridiculous that I blew up my marriage for something so stupid. It is immature to have an affair, and to only go off of how one feels in the moment. I know that there was/is still much to repair about myself. However, I think some of what you are saying here is simply your experience with your W. (Which in all fairness is about all of any of us here can talk about with certainty - our own experiences) I have never had the polarizing thing that you talk about. My demeanor is typically very level headed. Despite my poor decisions and emotional fantasy during the affair, in my day to day life, I tend more to lead with my brain. For my H, that's what makes it all even more confusing. He says "he knows I am smarter than that" I don't act like a tween, or have to have perfect conditions in which I will make love with him. I am not demanding, or typically even needy. The A was the result of a perfect storm of things in my life that revealed the character flaws I have in coping, communication, what I use to make myself feel good about myself, and being able to understand my own lack of self-awareness.

Now that I can recognize these things they can be worked on, studied, balanced, etc. So, for you and your wife - look for whether she's finding those layers and what she is doing about them. Is she denying them? Does she embrace them as "just who she is"? Those are bad signs. Instead, is she owning them, becoming accountable for them, and rebuilding day by day? I think you will find there are a spectrum of people here and you can be on one end or the other and most often somewhere in between.

What I can't figure out is why any WW would want to stay with her BH, especially my WW with me. I completely view her differently no. I have no respect for her. I don't give a shit about her "feelings". Sex is horrible now. If mind movies hit me during the act I get pissed off and sex turns rough and I have to feel like I'm completely using her to finish. Rage can bubble up at odd times and I will unleash a tirade of names and shit upon her that is just fucking terrible and feel absolutely no guilt. I could go on but you get the idea. Yet she "feels" we can repair the damage and get back to "before". It's sad for everyone involved really.

Everything that you are describing is normal. I don't know where you are on your timeline at all, but I think there is hope that will change over time. I would say there is a limit to this, I wouldn't stay forever with an angry man who didn't work on his healing if I was doing everything under the sun to fix things. But, I know that there are phases to things and I have accepted that phase as well as the new ones we are on now. If you see her changing, if the communication is there, and if this isn't a deal breaker for you - then you will find a way to get passed it or you will divorce.

For me, I stay with my BH because I love him. I didn't show him that last year. I was a lousy person, wife, and the type of person that I would have once looked down upon. And, he was and sometimes still is angry. He has every right. But, each day that he stays and works with me I am grateful. Even when he's angry, and even during those grudge f*** sessions that you describe. I want my life with him. I don't need him financially, our kids are grown, I just really do love him and I will spend the rest of my life making amends for these terrible decisions. We all know that the feeling we all have is that the WS could just take it back, make it not have happened. I would give anything for that. But, it did happen and I have to be woman enough to understand the consequences of that, and moreso take my own actions above those consequences. This is not me trying to get up on a soapbox, but you asked the question and that is what it is for me and maybe for your wife too? Maybe not?

I will add that at a year out I do see some improvement in my husbands mood and attitude. He has become softer towards me and it gives me hope. If she earns that and you want her, I hope the same will come to you.

What I can't figure out is why any WW would want to stay with her BH, especially my WW with me. I completely view her differently no. I have no respect for her. I don't give a shit about her "feelings". Sex is horrible now. If mind movies hit me during the act I get pissed off and sex turns rough and I have to feel like I'm completely using her to finish. Rage can bubble up at odd times and I will unleash a tirade of names and shit upon her that is just fucking terrible and feel absolutely no guilt. I could go on but you get the idea. Yet she "feels" we can repair the damage and get back to "before". It's sad for everyone involved really.

This was my situation exactly. I told her I felt like the pottery barn husband. She broke it and wanted to fix it. Except it was unfixable.

The sex/flattery connection must be very intoxicating. I don’t think it rendered my wh powerless (or any man), but given the choice between growing the fuck up, facing his professional failures and being a man, the sex seemed like an easy fix.

I also think that for the amount of “work” he had to do in order to get affair sex, he was most definitely investing very little. She told him what she wanted to do to him, he charged the room to his mother/the company, he got blow jobs, he claims she orgasmed a million times (I had to laugh in his face), and she was super eager at work the next day. Meanwhile, if he decided to come home at a reasonable hour, he got dinner and kid kisses, dropped his disgusting undergarments on the floor, and I picked them up and washed them. His evasiveness made me confused and short tempered, which sent him right back to “work” on the phone/computer whatever. Where he told her how lame I was. He said the amount of effort he put into her was negligible. The return was (in the moment) big and satisfying.

Being told you are amazing just for breathing is heady to some. Choosing to believe that from a serial cheating liar is nuts to me. Believing you’re awesome when the message is invalid and the source is offering to leavebher bh and kids at a moments notice is being a horses ass. She overdid it and burst his bubble. It was just a matter of who disappointed whom first. It was easier for him to hide his banking info from her than for her to hide her true character.

And I think he cringes when we watch the Americans too. The person who cares the least about the other tends to be the one who wins, or lives.

I remember that WWTL's WW said that she expected him to be mad but he would get over it.

Let's face it, there is a lot of that on this board. It appears to not be why did you cheat but a why not cheat.

You can cheat as much as you want, with as many people as you want. Do what you want with AP.

You can treat your BS as bad as you want.

All you need to do is be remorseful sometime after you are caught, all is good.

All you need to do is be remorseful sometime after you are caught, all is good

Rambler, all is not good. They are now in a M where they are not trusted, most are on lockdown and few are free to roam about the area without giving their BS a flight plan ahead of time. Yet they are still here, despite getting shit on (quite deserved imo). So let’s give them some credit. The WS is still trying to fight through this shit storm also. I think some on here are quite remorseful and will probably make decent wives for their next husbands when their current ones call it quits.

My ww fits in the mold. Trying to be different and trying to be a better wife and person. Yet I still shit on her. I remind her subtlety and quite often what she did to me and our family. I accuse her every week that she is withholding info even though I have no proof. It goes both ways and as much as we are often ready to throw in the towel, they seem just as ready to do the same. So maybe more compassion needs to be used around here on ourselves as well as the ones that hurt us.

All you need to do is be remorseful sometime after you are caught, all is good.

1. Even if someone is genuinely remorseful, nobody has to forgive them, stay with them, love them. That is a personal choice, not a rule.

2. People all over the world do hurtful things. Every day. Every year. And it will never end. You are clearly angry about that. So, what are you gonna do? How are you going to stop being angry about what other people do?

The sex thing baffles me too. We had many different kinds of sex, but the one she liked, and I truly believe she liked, was the one where we took our time, lit candles, and explored each other. What she had with him was him just pounding away, leaving her covered in him, and getting up and leaving. When you profess to like one thing, what is the appeal of risking your 25 year marriage for this? I get the Madonna/Whore thing, but to keep it going more than maybe once or twice is crazy. So when she tells me she hated the sex I don't buy it. I buy she hates the thought of it now, but back then the thrill had to be so big that she was willing to degrade herself.

Topic for another thread, but, there's absolutely something to this. The sex that my W said she liked and what she had during the A were entirely different too. Acts, places, frequency... All much more "porn" than "I love to have slow loving sex". IMHO, and this might light the board ablaze, but either women aren't aware, or don't feel safe enough with their H's to ask for what they really want. A very long time ago, a good friends father told something that sounded both crazy and amazingly sexist at the same time. "Don't worry about what they say they like, just pound the f**k out of them, that's what they really do like" (as an aside, you did read that relationship to this guy correctly, he was a very interesting man, to say the least). For decades after hearing that I thought "what an idiot". Now? I'm still 100% sure it's not always true. But is it true a lot? It seems to be. My W never asked me for that, in fact, told me she didn't like it. Has an A, and now it's suddenly what she wants (which I can only attribute to the OM introducing her to it).

Being told you are amazing just for breathing is heady to some. Choosing to believe that from a serial cheating liar is nuts to me. Believing you’re awesome when the message is invalid and the source is offering to leavebher bh and kids at a moments notice is being a horses ass. She overdid it and burst his bubble. It was just a matter of who disappointed whom first. It was easier for him to hide his banking info from her than for her to hide her true character.

I think you captured it really well. I like to be told I'm amazing too. Who doesn't. But I don't like to hear it from people who are only saying it to get something from me. The "source is invalid". Someone saying "Hey man, can I borrow 100 bucks, man, you are an amazing dude" has 0 weight. It's 100% transparent, that's not what he's thinking at all, he's saying that to get an expected outcome. The best compliment is one given with absolutely no expectation of remuneration. I remember many, many years ago, being at a bar with friends and seeing a bunch of good looking girls across the bar. They were getting ready to leave, but I bumped into one of them and she said to me "Hey RIO, my friends and I aren't from around here and have to leave, but I wanted you to know, we voted, you're the hottest guy in this bar". Wow, talk about an ego kibble! They didn't want anything, I wasn't going to give them anything, they walked right out of the door after. Nothing to gain, so that compliment, that was "true" in my eyes.

The cheater who's delivering the ego kibbles has EVERY reason to lie. And they do lie, a lot, in many cases, more than they tell the truth. Why would you value that kind of affirmation? They'll say anything to get what they want, how does that carry any weight at all. It's entirely transparent, and the motivation couldn't be easier to discern. Yeah, your the most smart amazing and beautiful woman I've ever met. Now, can you please come here and give me a BJ in the stairwell please.. I mean, really? That carries weight? That's worth something to AP's? Worth enough to blow up your marriage? That math does not make sense to me.

I remember that WWTL's WW said that she expected him to be mad but he would get over it.

Let's face it, there is a lot of that on this board. It appears to not be why did you cheat but a why not cheat.

You can cheat as much as you want, with as many people as you want. Do what you want with AP.

You can treat your BS as bad as you want.

All you need to do is be remorseful sometime after you are caught, all is good.

I wouldn't carry out what happened to us to this level. She knew I would be really mad and hurt. It wasn't so much he will get over it, but rather that our long history, the life we built, our two girls, and the plans we had for the future would be enough glue to hold us together.

I also don't think that consciously she felt that that all she would have to do is be remorseful and all would be good. She just didn't think at all. Like some alien took over her body for a month. In the back of her mind she had to calculate a risk reward, but her thinking was so skewed that her calculations had no basis in reality.