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Trying not to generalize here, but this topic is being discussed somewhat confusingly and mixed in with another semi-related question over on the wayward forum.

But... while many women have posted that, no, they do not dress with the goal in mind to attract male attention, it seems like more men have taken the position that of course women dress with the goal to attract male attention, or if you wear a low cut short/short skirt/high heels, what did you expect to happen, but to be leered/gawked at?

Again, not trying to generalize, because I'm sure not every guy believes this, just like there are women who dress with the goal of attracting male attention, but... what I was wondering is, does this boil down to internal/external validation behavior?

Like the people that dress to impress themselves and wear what they want to wear have an easier time validating themselves? Whereas people that dress with the goal of attracting attention or illiciting a certain response from other people are seeking external validation/feedback/attention to feel good about themselves?

Edited: I realize the title has thrown this discussion off, when I was asking something slightly different at the end of my post. I bolded my initial question.

[This message edited by ibonnie at 12:25 PM, April 2nd (Tuesday)]

Hell no! I don't know a single woman that dresses for men. And I can't understand the level of narcissism some men are coming from when they assume that we do. I dress the way I dress so that I really like the reflection I see in the mirror. Simple as that, really.

no. I dress to be comfortable and putting color together on a body is like art for me. I do try to dress so that it compliments my body. I'm very broad shouldered and chested with small hips and long legs. I try to keep the lines aesthetically pleasing. Women notice more than men.

A couple months ago I went into the grocery store after a workout so had my yoga leggings on. Some guys made some comments behind me, purposely loud enough for me to hear. I thought to myself shit, I can't even run to the store without them thinking this vision was for them?

News flash guys: it's not. Also, we don't care what your penis size is so stop with all the pics. IS it supposed to turn us on? because it doesn't. My one single friend has turned it into a drinking game for us. Every time she gets one we have to drink while laughing our ass off because you think it's a turn on.

Good times.

I dress to impress myself. Bottom line.

If anyone has a problem with that [i.e., I look "too good" or "not good enough" or anywhere in-between] that is their problem.

I’m not interested in men’s opinions of what I wear—I dress for myself. I’m proud of my body after two kids and I like how I look in my clothes. I like fashion and style and putting things together. I express myself and my creativity in my choice of outfits, accessories, and makeup.

I don't usually wear low cut short/short skirt/high heels because I don't want to attract male attention I absolutely cannot stand unwanted attention and if I don't smile back or acknowledge it they sometimes get belligerent which reminds me I have to talk to my daughter about these things.

Nope, not at all. I dress for myself. At work, I follow a dress code to look professional, and on my own time I like to be comfy. I try to dress for where I'm going, so if I am going to a formal event, then I wear a dress. If I'm going to the grocery store, I usually wear leggings or jeans and a hoodie/tshirt. I do dress up for date night with the hubby, but that is for him (and me).

The only time I dress for a man, it's intentionally something sexy that I know in advance is something my husbands loves to see me in, where the end result is a romantic sexual encounter.

Otherwise, I dress for myself, with the colors I like, that accentuates the positive aspects of my body, while minimizing the less positive aspects, with a non-offending professional presentation or more formal should the environment call for it.

I dress for me. The look better feel better mentality.

I think sometimes, if I feel particularly messy inside, knowing that I look put together on the outside helps a bit. Like at least this one thing, I can control.

However I will admit, it does make me feel good when my H compliments me and tells me that i look great. I don't care in the slightest about what other guys think- only my H. Considering what a huge hit my self esteem took when the infidelity happened, it helps to catch him staring at me with a look of longing or when he tells me how good i look or has a hard time keeping his hands off of me.

Nope. I try not to give other men any signs that I am interested in even looking their way. I do however (since dday) dress to impress my WH. I put a lot more effort into my appearance overall since then. I attribute that to being cheated on with a looks obsessed, selfie taking 22 year old. The dressing up I do is for my WH and myself - to show myself I’ve still got it - not random strange men. I was really disgusted with some of those comments honestly.

I'm afraid to answer this but here we go.

I can only speak for myself and the women that I met in my life.

When I lived in my home country.

We do dress up to impress men AND women. I don't use make up when I'm home and neither these ladies. We learned to never leave the house without some lipstick , earrings and better clothes.

When I lived in a feminist country:

Half the women didn't dress up at all, make up free faces, they really didn't care about what men think. But they also didn't dress up for themselves.

The other half dress up for the women. They were more worried to be original and to show off their style for the girlfriends.

I think people dress up for others even if we don't realize that

[This message edited by Girl123 at 4:36 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)]

No!... I have NO interest in the type of clothes meant to attract men. Heels, low cut tops, mini skirts, tight fitting clothes, no way just not me, never has been, never will be!

I dress for comfort, I dress to express my personality. I dress for me! I rarely wear make up.

My appearance is something I’ve struggled with since AP was twenty years younger, ‘pretty’, trendy, and takes endless pouting selfies.

BUT I’ll stick to being my slightly kooky, bit boho, rock self!

I think people dress up for others even if we don't realize that

So the title of my post was slightly misleading I guess, because my question was different at the end of my post, but I don't disagree with this. I think many women dress up to impress themselves, OR other women.

I can't speak for Brazilians or all Americans, or even every New Yorker, but my experience has generally been that even if my friends or I are wearing short skirts/low cut tops/high heels (all together, or just one of the three), our goal has NOT been to attract male attention, or to get guys to ogle us.

And regardles of what we're wearing, be it Daisy Duke shorts or a winter parka, having a strange man comment on our body/catcall/leer at us, makes us very uncomfortable. I've never witness this happen and had a friend decide to strike up a conversation with the random guy that's ogling her breasts at the coffee shop. Instead, the reaction is to get out of there, or find a way to divert attention, or come up with an excuse (sorry, can't talk, my "boyfriend" is waiting for his coffee).

Certainly not a woman here, but I do think I bring an objective perspective.

I work in a professional environment where business attire (suits/slacks/skirts) are worn on a daily basis. I have seen senior female members of the office dress professionally virtually every day for the past 7 years I have been with my firm. There are other female members who are not as experienced in the practice who seriously dress as though they are ready to go out to a club after the day is through.

This isn't a generational issue, as I have a millennial business partner who dresses perfectly professionally, and it is a number of the late 30s/early 40s GenXer crowd that I see dressed below what I would call a professional standard.

When I was in the education world, it was easy to spot which teenage girls were dressing for attention from the teenage boys as well. In my business classes, I made it a habit to talk about professional attire and what would and wouldn't be expected in the workplace, complete with pictures.

We all wear what we like wearing, whether that is for comfort or for style. My wife used to go for a morning workout, shower while she was gone, and come home in her "regular" clothes. During her A, she changed her routine, wore her yoga pants or workout shorts plus her bra top all day long. Now, if she doesn't change after her workout, she does wear a zip jacket over everything. She went from being very modest to "look what I have" and back to modest again.

Not all women will dress for attention, not by any measure. But those who are seeking it know they can get it through their clothing (or lack thereof).

There are women who dress to impress men. They like the attention they get with their boobs hanging out. Or butt showing in their shorts.

They just don’t realize they are attracting the “wrong” guy sometimes.

I dress for function, not form.

Short skirts and heels don't work for me when I'm chasing around a 1 year old and constantly picking up food/toys/ etc from the floor.

I actually stopped wearing heels after my 2nd kid.

I also don't wear jewelry for the same reasons. I'm not interested in having earrings/necklaces ripped off my being. And It's easier to not wear them than to redirect a toddler over jewelry 345245325 times a day, on top of redirecting them over everything else.

Job 1 is office casual. Job 2 is with kids of all ages (4-18). On days I work both jobs, I am careful to dress so that my students don't get an eyeful of my cleavage if I have to bend over.

I don't use clothes to validate myself..either internally or externally. I'm a good person because I have integrity, etc. Clothing does nothing to either positively or negatively influence my character traits.

When I was in the education world, it was easy to spot which teenage girls were dressing for attention from the teenage boys as well.

I don't even know where to begin on how this bothers me.

CaptainRogers, I mean you no offense, but your entire post makes you sound old, judgmental, insecure and sexist. You have no idea why women dress the way they do, you are simply offering an opinion. You realize that, right? It's an opinion, not a fact. What people perceive as casual or too informal for business is continually changing. Please realize this and embrace it, unless you are wearing a three-piece suit with a hat every day.

I know zero women that dress for men. Honestly, my friends think that men:

A. Are not hard to impress

B. Know nothing about female fashion

C. Think women look good no matter what (awww, that is endearing)

D. And don't care much

My friends dress for themselves and each other. Especially purses and shoes! Men never notice purses and shoes, and women will spend a lot on those and want them noticed! Goes to show you.

This is a triggery topic for me. Had to break up with my first boyfriend over his jealousy, and I really loved him. I got tired of, "Who are you wearing THAT for?!" I was thinking, "You, a$$hole! But why do I even try?" He never really got it. He would have preferred me covered head to toe rather than looking good. He wanted to own my visibility. If I "allowed" others to look at me, then I wanted their attention, according to him. Ewwww!!!! Should we gouge their eyes out, dude?

So, here is my view:

Men who believe women dress to attract men are both insecure and jealous. That is my opinion, based on life experiences. My secure partners did not make any assumptions about my appearance nor did they feel threatened, but my more controlling, insecure boyfriends did.

As an aside, there is some research to support that many (NOT all) men want a diamond in the rough, someone whose beauty is seen only by them.

While many (NOT all) women want to be chosen by someone with options, someone charismatic and wanted.

If that type of research is correct, it would explain why many (NOT all) men want to keep their woman to themselves--under floor-length dresses, religious garb, veils, and turtle necks shirts. While women can't seem to resist a ladies man.

Idk.

I absolutely cannot stand unwanted attention

This is me as well.

does this boil down to internal/external validation behavior?

Or the opposite, I was abused so male attention makes me very uncomfortable. Such validations makes me very uneasy and I will avoid it at all costs (ie hiding behind weight, baggy clothes, etc).

I dress in what makes me feel good, safe and comfortable.

Whereas people that dress with the goal of attracting attention or illiciting a certain response from other people are seeking external validation/feedback/attention to feel good about themselves?

I agree there are folks in this boat as well. Many of us have that friend who is constantly asking for feedback due to their own insecurities.

I dress for comfort.