SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I am finally posting this question that has been bugging me ever since I joined SI. As a young, childless BS I tend to feel very lonely in this community because it seems I am going against the grain by staying with my WS (for the record, I haven't committed to R yet, but I may be getting there). Don't get me wrong, I am extremely thankful for SI, I don't know what I would've done without it, but I do feel afraid to post about my situation.

The question is - why do most people advise new members to RUN if they don't have kids (seemingly regardless of WS remorsefulness)? I am genuinely interested in your reasoning. I get that the WS has done it once so they might do it again, and if we have kids in the future there will be other entanglements that make divorce more difficult than it is before kids. I get the more superficial reasons, but do you really think that the BS will be happier divorcing? If so, why?

I think there is a certain amount of BS that feel that if they did not have kids they would have D'd their WS. A little projection and a little wishful thinking.

One thing to remember is that most of us never thought we would reconcile with any partner that cheated on us. However faced with the situation IRL what we choose surprises us.

At the end of the day it is your M and reconciliation can work. To me it is more important to have a WS that is truly remorseful, is willing to rebuild trust (sometimes even at their own expense) and will do the earnest work of finding a why so that the BS can be reasonably assured (nothing is 100%) that they wouldn't make the same choice again.

For many of us when we are hit w/ Dday we are in the middle part of our lives, with young kids, large bills, and a lot of stress. Having to D or R during this time is a whole hell of a lot more difficult and complex than it is without children, if it's because you are young and haven't had them yet, or because you never had them, or because they are gone.

If you are financially independent, and able to walk away the general consensus is to walk away with what you have and start over. We all know that "The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior" as Dr Phil so often says. We also know that we as the BS really have no control over what the WS does to own their shit, and fix whatever is broken within themselves to be a safe partner thereafter.

Life is short and it is hard. Staying with a cheater because of the kids, and because of the financial strain is often the lesser of two evils, and many of those people that try that path end up at point later in time that they do D. Separating lives before there are kids involved is implicitly more simple.

For me cheating was an absolute dealbreaker. However when my H cheated, and uncovered the A, he was also freshly out of work, and I made a decent living, and I would have been accountable to pay SS and CS, and I wasn't really willing to do that. I was also horribly CoD, and because of those 2 reasons alone I was willing to make a run at R. However during that time I did reach a point where I was willing to be done, and walk away. For me and our relationship, that was what it took for him to own his shit, and fix it.

It's hard to explain if you don't have kids. You have this innate need to protect and model the best behavior for them. Everything changes. Their life and well being becomes the focus of every single decision you make. I know for a fact I would have divorced if it weren't for my kids. I had to think about what that would do to them. I'm a teacher and I have seen first hand how divorce affects children. It's utterly devastating and they are not mature enough to understand it at all. I would always advise someone that was cheated on without kids to file for divorce. Good luck!

as much as I love my husband and our life together, an element of mistrust still exists and likely will forever. THAT is the reason I say run. So I traded stability, friendship, our history together for this mistrust.

Those with no kids are likely in young marriage. you haven't had a chance to build up the other things that weigh it a long marriage. do so with someone else.

I don't necessarily advise R or D so much as just tell people that D isn't so bad and in fact can be fuckin spectacular if thats where the dice roll. BUT, as a childless divorcee who would've tried R if given even a little bit of a chance (and wouldve absolutely rushed into giving that bitch a baby in one of those hopeless "save the marriage" last ditch efforts), I think D is 99% of the time the very best thing for everyone, kids or no, and without kids it makes it way easier to detach and go no contact for life, which to me is the very best method of healing...and obviously I'm biased since this worked for me. When you've got a hammer, everythings a nail, etc.

Plus, and this is sorta tangential but relevant, now that Ive got distance from it all, I really believe wholeheartedly that its selfish for a BS to force themselves on a WS. Much much less selfish than what those dickheads did, but still kind of not really as honorable as we all like to think. For us monogamous folks with no stipulations on allowable side action, the marriage ended when the WS cheated. Period. R is just reestablishing a *new* marriage, just usually without turning it off and then back on again legally. The WS proved to not love the BS enough to fuck around. Doesnt respect the BS. Doesnt care about the BSs physical and mental health. By not just leaving them, its like forcing a kid caught smoking to smoke the whole pack of cigarettes. They might hate cigarettes after that, but in this case the BS is the cigarettes. Whatever they tell us, the fact is they didnt want to be with us so much that they strayed and destroyed the relationship. Why force them to stay in a situation that obviously wasnt working?

The answer is of course because we love them, but really beyond that its our fear of change and loneliness and judgment from others and heaps of other stuff. With kids in the mix, theres a whole other bag of worms to open up onto the shit heap. We desperately want them to stay without constantly, constantly asking ourselves if thats even the best course of action. Its a frantic clinging to status quo and a subsequent barrage of rationalizations to maintain that course no matter how shitty the WS acts after DDay.

But, thats how I feel but, in agreement with your point, I stifle that to tell people to do what they think is right instead of being a D cheerleader. For many reasons. One, hey, maybe theyre the lucky lottery winner this week who gets to successfully R while the other thousands are fucked. And people like options. Who am I to poopoo optimism, misguided or otherwise, when theres a nonzero chance of happy R on a long enough timeline. Also, sometimes the best lessons are learned through falling on your face again and again. Been there plenty, almost learned most of those lessons, too. Plus, I want to make people feel good and hopium is a better drug to dole out than "this is all fucked, move on already". Who wants to be told that? I hated hearing that in the early months, even if it turned out to be true *for me*. Key words.

Well for me it is this...

if we have kids in the future there will be other entanglements that make divorce more difficult than it is before kids.

Kids have made the decision so much more difficult. In the beginning after first D-Day I wanted to work it out. After subsequent D-Days it has grown exponentially worse.

I do think I would have been happier if I D'd without having kids, absolutely! I mean you still have to go through the recovery and building yourself back up again regardless, but you are not faced with your perpetrator every single day.

I think it's hard to understand unless you have kids. And the thought of it happening again, in the future, when there are kids...well that's not good.

It's almost like a warning to BS from the future...you do not want to be living through this with kids. Get out now.

I have to say that for me, I wonder why a BS wouldn't leave a cheater before they had kids? And all the answers imo come back to things that won't hold up a marriage:

Fear of being alone.

Fear of what people will say.

Perfectionism.

Codependency.

And then I ask myself, "If a BS won't leave a cheater before they even have kids, can this relationship ever be healthy?" I feel the WS will understand that they hold all of the cards, especially if the BS says, "I'm staying because I love him/her." In my mind, a WS then knows, "If they still love me after I cheated, I can do whatever I want."

This has been my experience.

And in my real life, these WS always cheated again and the BS ended up divorcing them eventually anyway.

I feel badly telling someone not married very long, without kids, or still just bf/gf to leave, but I have not seen this work out for anyone in real life. There's too much road ahead and not enough desire in the WS to live life right. It only gets harder.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 12:08 PM, June 6th (Thursday)]

Thank you for your answers.

I get that divorce without children is easier and much less messy. That's not what I'm asking. What I am interested in is finding out why people think that kicking a remorseful WS to the curb is always the best path if you don't have children. Why would I be happier divorcing? Sure, my H could cheat again in the future, but so could a new partner. Not to mention other types of betrayal besides cheating...

I get that there is now an element of mistrust that wasn't there before. But to be honest, it will be there with anyone else, at least for me it will. I will never again blindly trust anyone, that is the gift of this infidelity mess. So how is getting myself a brand new person going to make me happier? Why would it make you happy, in my circumstances?

I think there is a certain amount of BS that feel that if they did not have kids they would have D'd their WS. A little projection and a little wishful thinking.

Ummm...no.

It's the hard earned experience that reconciliation takes a lot of work, is painful, and that there is a high recidivism rate for cheaters. The YEARS it takes to truly reconcile just isn't worth it, even though you may have put years into the marriage/relationship. (See: Sunk cost fallacy)

The practical side:

No kids? Divorce is a simple business transaction and you both go on your way. If you have kids, that adds another element to the equation. Basically, when you add kids, a mortgage, etc. it becomes much more complicated to divorce.

Kids also means you are tied to the other (basically) indefinitely.

The emotional side:

While those of us who tried to R and ended up divorcing know that neither path is easy, nor is a new relationship mean that partner won't cheat, we do KNOW that our current partner DID cheat. That is a very hard thought to let go; in fact, I would say it is impossible (How many BSs who reconciled, even decades later, still say there is a stain in the marriage that won't go away? Yeah...all).

So, move on and find someone who you don't have that emotional baggage with.

That is why we say walk away. Not because we are bitter or "projecting."

Your dog bites you. Hard. Draws blood. Full blown viciously attacks you. You continue giving it treats. You continue petting it. You don't know if it will ever bite you again, but it already showed you that it's bloodthirsty and has little regard for your well-being. Now, do you keep the dog, or get a new dog who is a blank slate, one who has yet to prove that it will viciously attack you? Yeah, any dog could wild out on you with no warning, but you're unfairly comparing *all dogs* to just the one dog who you know is a dangerous animal. And by continuing to feed the dog treats and let it sleep in your bed and what not, you're not really punishing it so that it knows that that behavior was reprehensible.

There are 3.5 billion women in the world. Only the one cheated. And you want to keep trying with that same one? The thing is, you don't have to. Being lonely sucks, but you get used to it. And you don't drug a bunch of bullshit into the remnants of an already fractured relationship. You get to start over with someone new and fix all new types of problems. Maybe they cheat, maybe they don't. Hell, maybe next time YOU cheat. Nobody knows. But what you do know is that your spouse cheated. They have it in them to cheat. They have it in them to disregard you fully in the pursuit of some selfish entitlement bullcrap.

When someone tells you who they are, listen to them.

My two cents.

Of course, you do what makes you happy. I think most people would admit they are not 100 percent happy even in reconciled marriages. How could you be? You are with a person that violated their most important promise to you. Even if they do all the hard work to change, there is still always that chance it will happen again. It's gruesome, but I once saw the murder reference. Someone commits a murder. Highly likely they will do it again, but even if they don't they will never not be known as a murderer. The act is done and cannot be taken back.

I will never again blindly trust anyone, that is the gift of this infidelity mess. So how is getting myself a brand new person going to make me happier? Why would it make you happy, in my circumstances?

I can surely understand this especially if you do have a remorseful spouse.

If you are young and have a chance to meet someone who doesn't have such bad coping mechanisms that would be worth the happiness alone for me.

I want R to work for everyone who wants it. I really do. Not just stay married, but have that beautiful unicorn experience of really having a better marriage afterwards and being healthier people.

On the other hand, I'm too close to this issue. I'm infuriated that your spouse cheated on you (general you). I know that you deserved better and that you are way out of your cheating spouse's league ethically and morally. Odds are that this person has issues that will take years to fix and dammit, I don't want you to sit and wait for an adult to figure out how to be an adult when you could be living your own damned life.

I had no kids with my WH, but we had a blended family. I love my stepdaughter. She was part of why I sort of tried to R. She had been in my life for 7 years and she is just fantastic. She's a great person and we became really close. Thankfully, her mother and I get along fine and she can still be in my life, though it isn't the same. I lost her in a real way and it hurt. I feel like I was one of her parents. Kids add emotional complications to getting out of relationships.

The odds of anyone's marriage being that perfect example of R is not that high and if you don't have kids already, might you be missing a chance to have a child with someone who is already emotionally mature?

Let me give you some encouragement here...

Look at it this way, the reason that you are staying isn't because you have kids. When I first got here, a lot of people projected on me as well as a WW. They said "You probably just want his paycheck" or "You need help supporting the kids". Literally I heard that from a few members. But, I don't need my husband's paycheck, I make as much as he does. Our kids are grown. There was no obligation under the sun that made me stay other than I wanted him and I wanted our marriage. Yes, because I have adult kids, there was some consideration given but not like there would have been with younger kids.

I think that often when we first get here there is more projection, but if people get to know you and your story and your circumstances, they are supportive no matter whether you have kids, or you decided to stay based on x, y, z. Let folks get to know you and there will be less projection I think. And, when people point out, get out now you don't have kids! Then just hold strong that means you have more choices and you feel that your marriage is worth fighting for under it's own merit, rather than obligation. I hope you will not be afraid to post moving forward.

[This message edited by hikingout at 12:36 PM, June 6th (Thursday)]

I feel badly telling someone not married very long, without kids, or still just bf/gf to leave, but I have not seen this work out for anyone in real life.

Well, it did work out for me, in the sense that we're still married and in love 30 years later. But that being said, it is absolutely an exception case, so here's some feedback for OP from someone who has lived it.

If you are going to try this, it is super, super, SUPER important that your remorseful WS understands the need to be 100% honest. No lying. No minimizing. No rugsweeping. Because you are, in fact, still at a stage where the only consideration you have is whether you want to stay together. That's it. There's no issue of finances or your child's best interest. You won't be searching for a new partner with the baggage of an ex and small children that someone else may not be interested in raising. There isn't a social stigma to it; people break up. You would never have to lay eyes on this person again -- no agonizing routine of politeness at every one of your child's milestones for the rest of your life. No religious impediments. No need to stay local due to shared custody. These are not superficial considerations.

So to take someone who is that free and unencumbered, and lie to them in any way to try and control their choices, is unforgivable. I know because I did it. I never cheated again, so in that sense, I was a good bet, right? Execept that I also never told the full truth of my A, and so I essentially tricked my BH into marrying me. He sensed that there were still issues under the surface, but he ignored them because he was so grateful that OM was out of the picture. When midlife hit, though, a lot of those suspicions came rolling back up, so he confronted me and got different answers.

I used to think that BH had "won" when we got married. He had me, and OM had pining and NC. But the truth is, OM got over me and got married. I'm a distant blip in his rear view mirror. However, he's still a toxic presence in my M. If BH had left me, or even if I had dumped him, this whole business would be ancient history to him, too. He could have spent his life with someone who never lied to him or cheated on him. So even here, in this very rare case where it worked out -- who "won?"

And there are no do-overs. I can't give that time back to him. Leaving me would mean starting over in the dating world at age 50. Raising our kids, two of them with emotional disorders, in a broken home. Splitting 28 years of joint finances. As it happens, he doesn't want to leave, but he has nothing near the power and options he had when he married me at age 22.

For all this, we are actually doing well in R. Very few people in our lives know about any of this trauma. We're commonly seen as a model couple. Neither of us is sorry to be together.

But there are very, very good reasons that you keep hearing this advice. Even the best case scenario has significant pitfalls.

I say it for the reasons you listed. I don't see those as superficial. I also don't see the point in being M if you're not going to have kids. M is nothing more than a business transaction. You can have a long term, committed, monogamous relationship without being married.

So, if you are in any relationship with a cheater and don't have kids, I say get out. I don't see any reason to stay. Love? Meh...if they cheated, you didn't have love, at least for that time. You can find love and trust and commitment and monogamy with someone else. I don't believe in soulmates or fairytale love. I would rather be alone than with a cheater.

Iris,

I read what is in your profile but don't know other details about your story. Based on what is in your profile, I would not offer any real advice.

I don't believe in "blanket advice" and I would not give that advice (to immediately D and Run) as blanket advice, whether someone was childless or not. I would read what was shared about the circumstances before I would offer any opinion or advice, and usually even then, I add something to indicate I'm not in your shoes so you have to make up your own mind.

It sounds like your H may have some serious growing up to do but I don't fault you if you want to give him a chance to prove he can be a faithful, loving, respectful H.

I try not to offer advice unless it is asked for. All that really matters is that you are comfortable with your decision.