SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I would speculate that it is because R is incredible difficult because it requires actions--both from the BS and WS--that are in your control and those that aren't. Staying together for the kids is not R; it is coexisting in a relationship that you are legally bound to. R means your WS doing the work (out of control) and you doing your work (in your control).

Your work is to trust him eventually so that you actually have a relationship that brings you joy and satisfaction. Understandably so, this is a VERY VERY VERY tall order for a lot of BSs and an impossible feat if you do not have a remorseful WS. You cannot will a relationship. Without these ingredients coming together in such a way (that is only partially in your control), you'll remain together in what is more like a marital prison, bound to each other for reasons other than what makes a relationship enjoyable.

Life is a series of risks, the difference is the odds of a clean slate get worse as you age. However, you may not find another relationship like you know you could have. It could become more fulfilling one day or it could just become that marital prison.

I do not advise people either way. The important thing is to make an informed decision after much thought and observation of your WS's desire to begin doing what he needs to do to make this relationship work. Either way, as long as you make an informed decision and own your decision as one you made believing to be the best for YOU with all the facts and circumstances available at the time, then you will be fine.

Best of luck to you.

Of course there isn't, Dee, and that is my point. iris2536 has no guarantee either way. Trying to persuade her to divorce because this someone has already done the "worst" thing to her is a moot point, imo.

Unless everyone out there has an equal chance of cheating as someone who already has, it isn't a moot point.

For me, I'm not advising to D or R. All of this is projection from us regardless. If you have successfully reconciled and are in a happy marriage now, your perspetive will probably lean towards trying to R if there are signs of hope. If you were with someone like my WH, your perspective will probably lean towards thinking that people should just D and build a new life.

My actual feelings on the OPs situation, trying to be objective as possible, are that if she gives him another chance when it would be far less complicated to D now than later and he has already shown her that he can cheat, he should be over the moon grateful and on his knees in gratitude. She IS taking a big risk on someone who cheated early on giving him another chance.

I am in awe of those of you who were able to do that and are now happy. You are more forgiving people than I am and have a capacity for understanding and compassion that I do not possess. I recognize that. Had my WH been a great candidate for R (and for a while there he seemed like one), I very much doubt that I would have been as a BS.

Plus, there's a part of me that screams in empathy and thinks "OMG he/she hurt you so badly RUN AWAY from this person and give yourself all the good things in life".

I think it’s because many of us (myself included) thought at the time “I would be out of here if I didn’t have kids and a family”. Had it not been for the emotional and financial baggage, we would have certainly divorced. But, would we really have? Can we really answer that question having never been in that position? I cry bullshit. I know I used the kids and finances as an excuse to stay early on, but I have no doubt a year out that although that played a huge role, other parts of me truly loved the man and wanted to stay. Perhaps convincing myself and others that I only stayed for the kids helped soothe the shame of staying with a cheater. Most of us had claimed cheating was a dealbreaker before DDay so until we have “been there” in any situation, we don’t REALLY know what we would do. So if it’s those of us with kids insisting you should leave, realize that “advice” is coming from someone having never been in your position. I would put more thought on the perspectives of the other childless betrayed spouses.

What Svon said.

I'm in a unique situation. I was childless but older than you, and desperately (and unsuccessfully) trying to get pregnant at the time D-day occurred (we had been together forever but had delayed having children). I absolutely felt as though my biological clock was ticking and was terrified that I did not have time to deal with a divorce, find a new relationship, and THEN deal with infertility. In deciding whether to R or not, I also felt like leaving might mean that I would NEVER have children. This was A factor (certainly not THE factor) in deciding to R. Ultimately, the number one factor was that I loved my husband, our relationship was worth saving, and he continuously demonstrated to be committed to R.

Like many others, I had previously told myself that cheating was an immediate dealbreaker so I was in the position of trying to reconcile my ideals with my actions. I think that this is where many people get stuck, with trying to maintain a modicum of self-respect through the absolute shitstorm of trying to R after infidelity. In order to keep our ideals in tact I think some of us tell ourselves that it is still a dealbreaker EXCEPT in this particular scenario that I just happen to be in.

Long story short, we have a baby now. My H continues to demonstrate his commitment to me and our relationship and family. I am happy and (cautiously) confident now that we will make it. But yeah having a baby makes the idea of D much more difficult than it would have been a few years ago - no question. Intellectually I knew that then, but until you have a child, you cannot possibly understand the agony of the thought of seeing them only part-time.

Just because things seem to be working out for me, I wouldn't RECOMMEND my path. Choosing to R with a known cheater was one of the riskiest things I ever did. Choosing to have a baby with a known cheater was borderline reckless and I am by nature, a very careful person. I look at you and your age and think about how many more options you had than me and most of us that post here. I also know that I cannot tell you I would have made a different choice if I had been younger or if I had some assurance that I would not have been giving up on having children. Only you know your relationship and can assess whether it is the right choice for you. And even then, none of us, not the most cautious and careful amongst us have a crystal ball.

@Dee

Unless everyone out there has an equal chance of cheating as someone who already has, it isn't a moot point.

Exactly why I feel it is a moot point. I believe (and, yikes!, this is going to get BS's screaming) anyone is capable of infidelity at any time. No one can read the future, no one knows how and what circumstances we are going to find ourselves in. We can all swear up and down all we want about we will "never" cheat, but for me personally, I have found in my life using the word "never" is a word I never use.

How many mature 30ish yo bachelors do you think are up for a serious relationship with a divorced woman?

Actually, most men aren't ready to marry until they are in their 30s. Why would they care of you're divorced? They will care if you have kids.

Going to get something else to quote and then edit.

Is it because you basically assume that it's going to happen again eventually? That no cheater is redeemable so better to cut your losses now?

Not exactly. Obviously, I think some cheaters are redeemable since I have R with my fch. I do not think he will cheat again.

For me, it's more, why stay with someone after they have hurt you like that if you don't have to? I know, I didn't have to stay with my fch. I wasn't planning to stay. I was biding my time until I could comfortably leave. If I had been working and/or my children had been in school on dday (I homeschool.), I would have left immediately. Maybe we would've gotten back together, but I wouldn't have stayed while he tried to work out his shit.

Personally, I lean toward D for everyone. I do think that, if you have kids, you need to consider R a bit more.

[This message edited by cocoplus5nuts at 3:59 PM, June 7th (Friday)]

Exactly why I feel it is a moot point. I believe (and, yikes!, this is going to get BS's screaming) anyone is capable of infidelity at any time. No one can read the future, no one knows how and what circumstances we are going to find ourselves in. We can all swear up and down all we want about we will "never" cheat, but for me personally, I have found in my life using the word "never" is a word I never use.

Well, apparently I will cheat on a DDay, lol, so I'm the worst to argue your point. I don't totally agree that everyone will cheat, though. In my case, it took a pretty extreme amount of psychological trauma for me to do it. Aside from that, I seriously doubt I would ever have cheated. I can't do the lying and gaslighting that it requires. I don't get off on hiding stuff. There is not one bit of it that didn't horrify me after I came back to myself.

I think a huge number of people would never cheat. Lots of people here were in abusive relationships and still didn't do it.

I think a huge number of people would never cheat.

Agree. I don't think I would. I bet you didn't think you would. But, we just never (dang, used that word) know what circumstances we will find ourselves in. Like you.

I am an extremely safe bet unless I find out that you slept with a bunch of prostitutes behind my back.

Not married long when you should still be in the honeymoon stage and cheating that early on just doesn't bode well.

The best predictor of the future is past history.

While it may never happen again the capability is there. Hence the likelihood is higher.

I think a lot look at the statistical % of repeat behavior.

If you read thru this site you'll see multiple ddays sometimes years apart and false R's happen frequently.

R should only be attempted with certain prerequisites in place. Like transparency, IC for the wayward, No Contact boundaries, remorse, etc. even with that its a 2-5 process with no guarantee. However, if you are going to try R this will get you the best chance of success.

You'll se a lot jump right into what they call R (which is just staying together) and rug sweep. The chance of rep acts or False are is much higher not doing the foundation work IMO. That's not to say they won't all work out.

[This message edited by Marz at 4:15 PM, June 7th (Friday)]

If you read thru this site you'll see multiple ddays sometimes years apart and false R's happen frequently.

With about 70,000 members over almost 17 years there is no way this is a good sampling to make any kind of statistical analysis of how successful or unsuccessful R is or isn't.

Trying to persuade her to divorce because this someone has already done the "worst" thing to her is a moot point, imo.

SisterMilkshake

So then what about a repeat offender, SMS? The prevailing consensus on here seems to be that a WS that is offered R, lets their BS think they are in R, and then cheats again should ALWAYS be divorced immediately. Even many WS's say that.

iris2536 is presumably looking for advice here about whether she should stay married to a cheater.

Is your advice to iris2536 then, "Wait to see if he cheats again. If he does, divorce him immediately."?

And what is with this "broken arm" analogy, where people seem to think that a proven cheater is actually LESS likely to cheat than the average person, presumably because they've already cheated, said they were sorry, realized the error of their ways, and are now safer because of it? I don't agree with that at all.

@cheatstroke

iris2536 is presumably looking for advice here about whether she should stay married to a cheater.

I don't feel that is what iris2536 post is asking for. She is asking "Why are childless BS's predominantly advised to D?" That is different question than the answer you are giving her. Which was telling her to divorce because her WS has done the worst thing to her.

Iris:

I will say that when I joined SI over a decade ago there was far less "rushing to judgement" about what a member should do in terms of R or D immediately after D-Day. We used to counsel taking time, observing, self-care, getting ducks in a row. Now the most popular thread on here are the ones where the BS gets some sort of poetic justice on the WS like getting her fired or threatening to shoot him and his lover. The faster they act after D-Day, the more enthusiastic the applause from the peanut gallery seems to be

I like your tag line. There IS good and bad in everyone. A remorseful cheater is someone who has faced the bad and made conscious decision to be different going forward, and I DO think such a person is less likely to cheat in future. But people are alway going to hurt each other, it's the nature of being human. There is no "perfect" R or even M.

And Sister MS, you know I adore you, but I do think there are things I know about myself. I would never murder in cold blood. I would never molest a child. And I would never cheat. If I felt an attraction like that, I'd leave my H. Risk everything on a new relationship if I felt that strongly. I wouldn't lie to him and break him the way he broke me. I have many many many faults. Cheating is not one of them.

[This message edited by latebloomer45 at 5:52 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)]

It is always interesting to see some folks skip over the fact this place is founded by two people who were able to reconcile.

And I totally understand each of us relates to the outcome that worked for us.

With my 'kids' as grown, young adults on dday, I was advised to run more than a few times. I needed every perspective, whether people thought I should run or stay, to best figure out my choice. Being challenged along the way was good for me, and good for the rebuild of my marriage.

The vast majority of all the advice here comes from people wanting to help other people in pain.

My advice?

Take it all in and see how it applies to your situation. Read. A. Lot.

I found the successful R stories that helped shape my recovery, and those who challenged my path helped me make sure all the bases were covered.

I don't advise any particular path anymore. I point out the red flags I recognize or the hopeful signs I saw in my situation and see if either applies to the person in need. Eventually, we all get to the other side of those early painful days.

I wouldn't say we were on a honeymoon period. Sure we had only gotten married a little over a year before, but together for 8 years. That may not be much when you compare it to 20+ years, but still that's my entire adult life. We've been through many changes together, ups and downs, and even a year apart because I decided to do a masters program abroad.

I really believe the common saying here in SI that it's all about the cheater, not the marriage. We weren't going through anything especially difficult or stressful. We were happy, in love and planning a future together. If anything I think life was too easy for him!

I'm not sure you all are right that's it's easier for a 30yo divorced woman to find a decent person than it is for a 40 or 50yo. Most 30 yo that want marriage and children will not want a divorced girl when they can get someone who will experience marriage for the first time with them. I know I would run away in their position.

I would never murder in cold blood. I would never molest a child. And I would never cheat.

I agree. I posted "never" about cheating, but I get your point. And, I did think about those exact points. (I mean exactly, I would never molest a child.) But, I try to not use the word "never" in general.

I adore you, too, latebloomer, and I am so happy to see a post from you.

I'm not sure you all are right that's it's easier for a 30yo divorced woman to find a decent person than it is for a 40 or 50yo. Most 30 yo that want marriage and children will not want a divorced girl when they can get someone who will experience marriage for the first time with them. I know I would run away in their position.

That surprises me. Is divorce actually a big red flag in your age group?

All I can tell you is that I was dating in my 20s and 30s and now I'm in my 40s. My experience is that there is a WHOLE lot more difficulty as you get older. Women in their 20s are being chased by men of every age, whether they want to be or not. I have actually heard men in their 50s state that they won't date anyone over 35 and lord that makes me laugh. People's lives are more complicated the older you get too. Kids, ex-wives and ex-husbands, health problems, etc.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 4:55 PM, June 7th (Friday)]

I'm about 4 months out from DDay2, but only a little over a month since consistent remorseful behavior. I got transparency and accountability immediately, but the occasional anger/frustration and defensiveness and overall not 100% dedication for the first couple of months (aka regret, some pity parties, etc). I'd like to get to 3 months of consistent behavior before making that decision.

iris2536, would he do all of this still had you went ahead and filed for divorce anyway? People behave differently when standing at the edge versus hanging from it. You know how he acts as he sees it possibly coming, but what would have happened if he was already there, reading that petition and all the legalese after reading "irreconcilable differences". That's a real "oh shit' moment for a lot of people. It really hits you in the chest and sends a wave of fear and anxiety through your body, holding that petition in your hand and realizing he is about to lose you for good. That moment is seared into your mind and you heart forever.

Now, what if despite having been served he still demonstrated remorse. He owns his shit in full and let's you know and through his actions demonstrates his empathy to your pain from his infidelity. He tell you he loves you, even though you are going to move forward with the D, because he wants to make things right with you, help you heal.

Would those actions really show you he does "love" you?

Let's say you did give him a second chance. Maybe you stop the D, or maybe you let it finalize and decide second chance mean a truly new M, not only will be thankful for that opportunity he will NEVER forget what that day felt like to be handed those D papers because of his infidelity. That experience is tattooed in his soul.

If there is a reason I tell people to file D first it is because you will see their wayward for who they really are, how they respond, how they view you and the relationship, what steps are they willing or not willing to take to deal with it. Fog or no fog, affair influence or not, people really show you who they are either standing at the edge or hanging from it.

Getting to that one question of whether someone is happier divorcing or not is entirely up to that person. YOU choose if you want ot be happy or not and your actions should follow. Although there are no guarantees of getting stuck with another cheater, it largely is more to do with fixing your "picker" of partners and the lessons learned from you past relationships.

If you think your husband is a candidate for R despite the common response to file D for young couple with no kids, then you do what you feel is best for your situation. Your youth is yours for how you want to spend it. I've seen enough of that "youth" wasted with the people I know in MY life that it has shaped my opinion that more often than not it is better to start over when young than waste years rebuilding what was destroyed, in particular due to infidelity. Some of those folks I know went their separate ways, became better people on their own journeys, then reconciled a few years later for an even better relationship.

With about 70,000 members over almost 17 years there is no way this is a good sampling to make any kind of statistical analysis of how successful or unsuccessful R is or isn't.

The term I used was frequent. For multiple ddays and false R's

They show up here a few times a week. If you're going to attempt R you should know what it entails and how to achieve the best chance of success.

I think this is bordering on a T/J at this point, but Marz.... you literally wrote:

I think a lot look at the statistical % of repeat behavior.

If you read thru this site you'll see multiple ddays sometimes years apart and false R's happen frequently.

In any event, Iris - most people here look at their own situation and come from their own perspective when giving advice (how can you not). Trust me, it is harder to find examples of childless BS's who are attempting (or have achieved) R on this site. I assume at least some are here, but they are probably more quiet (for fear of getting shouted at to "DIVORCE" every time they ask a question or comment about their situation. At least that was the case for me....

[This message edited by emergent8 at 5:27 PM, June 7th, 2019 (Friday)]