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I need to confront her with this information

You need to confront her and tell her you know that despite your attempts to reconcile that she has been unfaithful to you with multiple men. Period. Don't share the source. Don't share specifics. Doing so only makes it easier for her to try and spin the story in her favor -- whether to you or to everyone else once she knows that you are done.

Lawyer-ed up. Getting a counselor for myself and my kids. Getting finances in order etc

Good. You are clearly seeing that your WS is talented at making things seem great, lying and manipulating, but that she is not your friend while she continues to pursue her own self-centered agenda. You'll need that for the road ahead.

So here is my question....what do I tell them?

In an ideal world, your WS would understand the impact on the kids and want to make sure they get an appropriate level of information for their age, so she would sit with you and own up to the truth. Especially when the kids know an AP and/or have involvement with them. Mine did, but she immediate recognized the damage she had caused and wanted to try and do the right thing. It seems doubtful that your WS will do anything other than try to whitewash what she did.

Given all of that, I'm largely in alignment with what iBonnie said. I think it is excellent as it does a good job of giving them the underlying things that they need...

- Love. They need to see that someone cares about them. They need to see it in action even when it is hard.

- Honesty. This is really just a concrete outpouring of love. They need to see that someone in their life isn't trying to manipulate them and actually loves them. They need to see that they are respected and that they deserve the truth (without all the unnecessary details).

- Proactive protection. It isn't uncommon for kids to think that they are at fault in some way or that they are partly responsible for trying to fix "the family". They don't need that emotional baggage as it is incredibly damaging. They need to clearly know that this isn't their fault or responsibility.

- Help. This will impact their lives in all kinds of ways. Especially in a small town. IC, when they are willing to engage in it, can be a good thing. Outside of that, they need a parent who is willing to look out for them and care about them. This translates into being open and available at any point for months and years ahead.

- Shielding. You have a ton to deal with and it is going to be painful. Those burdens are not for them to carry, to be your confidant about it to be your support on. That's emotionally inappropriate and damaging for them. Your IC, friends, etc. are your outlet. That doesn't mean that they won't understand you are sad, drained, etc., but they don't get pulled in. What your wife does will be beyond your control, but to the extent you can, shield then from parental concerns and do everything possible to avoid having them pulled into the middle of it all.

In short, at each moment as you move ahead, just ask yourself if you are loving them well and modeling for them what is healthy and right.

I cannot believe how many SI "vets" have returned because of false R after 10+ years.

From being here so long, I get that these things come in waves but this is some form of epidemic. It is a shocking reminder that R is a gamble even in the best of circumstances. "Believe nothing they say and only half of what they do" really comes to mind.

Uddup, let your feelings of responsibility to her relationship with the kids go. They may already know more than you suspect and have been struggling to keep this secret from you. If they don't, they can very easily find out through other people about what she's done. With so many OM and so many OM closely tied to your kids in some shape or form, it's only a matter of time. You might as well be the one to tell them and not a friend, a bully, a rumor, or an angry BS.

Chances are they will be devastated and angry. But if your WW doesn't act like she's proud or a victim in this, they will reconcile with her eventually. Maybe that's only enough to visit her on holidays.

Regardless, these are the consequences of her choices. If you don't want your kids to be angry and look down on you, maybe don't cheat on their father repeatedly with their hockey coach and a handful of other people they know. She needs to feel the full effects of consequences like these to have any hope of moving on and becoming a better person. Don't stand in the way of that.

It also might be helpful to get IC for yourself to firm up those boundaries when it comes to wanting to protect her from herself. While you may not be a full blown codependent, that is a trait of codependency. Alternatively, you could also read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover.

From being here so long, I get that these things come in waves but this is some form of epidemic

Agreed. I cannot remember so many in such a short time span in my 12 years on SI.

Your wife is either bipolar or a sex addict. And, yes, women can be addicted. She could be both. Please keep in mind that your children might know something and have already discussed it. If she is that good at a double life they might still be in the dark. They might react in ways you are not expecting. One might vilify her or you. Children from the same family are so different that they perceive things differently.

Do you know for sure that you are the bio father? If you don’t know and find out you are not don’t dump that on them until they are older. Two major blows to young adults often lead to risky behavior.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 9:20 AM, August 14th (Wednesday)]

I cannot believe how many SI "vets" have returned because of false R after 10+ years.

R can be achieved but it needs to have a specific agenda in place as there are no guarantees even under the best of circumstances. Way to many jump in and rugsweep hoping for the best. Which may just set you up for failure. It takes 2-5 years with both spouses doing a lot of work. I'm sorry, I won't do it again Is bullshit.

If you have kids and a long marriage D is devastating financially for most. It normally lowers the standard of living for both parties. However, if the signs aren't good for R you may just waste even more time/life that you'll never get back.

[This message edited by Marz at 9:51 AM, August 14th (Wednesday)]

Your wife is either bipolar or a sex addict.

Or she's just your garden variety entitled asshole who likes attention, at the expense of those closest to her.

Onward, friend. Congratulations, in advance, on finally getting out of infidelity. There are plenty of good honest single women looking for a good man. Should you decide to date again, you're going to do just fine.

Sorry this has happened.

I like iBonnie's wording a lot. The one thing I am not sure about is the last line. Do you really need to name the specific people?

What are the pros and cons?

Pros: They will know the depth of the problem their mother has (4 APs) and that may help you if one of them would otherwise try to convince you to reconcile. I think this benefit can be had without giving the specific names though. If it all blows up, they will know what people to avoid in the town.

Cons: They will have the names and that will cause them additional tension whenever they interact with someone in the AP's families or friends. They will feel that extra weight in a lot of interactions and one or both of them may "lose it" when they see one of the APs, also making it more public than it needs to be etc.

R can be achieved but it needs to have a specific agenda in place as there are no guarantees even under the best of circumstances. Way to many jump in and rugsweep hoping for the best. Which may just set you up for failure. It takes 2-5 years with both spouses doing a lot of work. I'm sorry, I won't do it again Is bullshit.

What's so unsettling is that some of those posters did the work and genuinely thought their WS was doing the work too. Their WS did all the right things, said all the right things, made new commitments to them, and yet was cheating throughout. I'm not surprised at all when a WS who was dragged through R kicking and screaming, or even just grumbling and complaining, by their BS cheats again. I think it's alarming and maybe even sociopathic to make a grand display of an ideal R while still cheating.

I truly wonder if R is even possible after such a level of lies and deceit. I don't blame Uddup one bit for immediately wanting out.

I think it's alarming and maybe even sociopathic to make a grand display of an ideal R while still cheating.

I agree. There are no guarantees. Probably the only way to avoid that would be trust but verify. Words are cheap and some can hide their actions for a period of time.

I think you have to realize just how bad some BS's want it to work. So they see what they want to see. Will do anything and bust their ass to try and archive the un achievable.

Uddup - I am so sorry. Can't offer much advice on the telling the kids thing as I am not a parent, but I can tell you from dealing with a split when I was about their age that I would have much rather gotten the truth instead of some bs. Just FWIW.

Good luck - there is absolutely no easy answer :(

I'm sorry, I won't do it again Is bullshit

Marz - I think I as BS "knew" that at some level, but I wish I had known that in a tangible way. I think the 9 months of false R screwed me up worse than the actual cheating did.

Marz - I think I as BS "knew" that at some level, but I wish I had known that in a tangible way. I think the 9 months of false R screwed me up worse than the actual cheating did.

Oh, I get it. It's hard not to fall into the hopium addiction. Plus most people will do anything to avoid having to make decisions. You are not alone here. IMO just staying and hoping it'll get better with zero actions or just go away is not a decision.

Hence, words are meaningless

[This message edited by Marz at 1:51 PM, August 16th (Friday)]

Uddup,

Is she in contact with you and making like nothing is wrong ?

I do think it's worthwhile to find out who this 4th guy is so when you chuck her aside and you know him, you can chuck him aside and shame him too.

I don't know how you can deal with 48 more hours of having to be fake.

Have a gameplan when you get home. You have 48 hours to do it.

What is your reaction going to be when she cries and grabs you ?

Or when she falsifies a DV charge ?

Or when she tries to turn your kids against you ?

Or what documents and valuable possessions you will need to take with you ?

Use your anger in planning a perfect exit, not simply to blow her up which you will do and she deserves

Do you really need to name the specific people?

Trdd, the only reason why I thought it was pertinent to mention the AP's by name is because uddup specifically said,

One is/was a friend. He was my sons hockey coach when he was about 11 or 12. We were friends. Single, younger guy with not a lot going for him.

The other two I know from the hockey community. We are a smallish city so the hockey community is tight.

If the kids are involved in hockey at all still, it sounds like there's a decent chance the kids will find out on their own. Better to give them a heads up now, than let them hear gossip/rumors and be blindsided.

Also, after reading this:

I get a message from an old friend/acquaintance - he reached out to see if I was okay. Ummm yeah dude I'm good. WHy?

He heard I found something on WS phone. I had, the night before. I asked him how he knew and what he knew. We went back and forth - and I asked... do me a favor, if you know something I need to know.

He thought I should know. He knew about the other 3 for a while and even confronted WS about it at one point a couple of years ago but he claims he was played y her and he thought it would never happen again. When she told him I saw a message to the current AP he was pissed and felt I had to know. Even though this is going to cost a lot of friendships.

Why is uddup's WW reaching out to an old aquaintance to tell him that her BH saw something on her phone????? The whole story sounds fishy, and I wouldn't be surprised if the "old friend/aquaintance" was AP #4 and was upset to find out about #1, #2 & #3.

On top of that, there are at least four other people that know about the cheating, but honestly I would be surprised if that's all. Even if each AP only confided in one person, that would be eight people in their community aware of this...

I really think he needs to give his kids the basic info in regards to who this involves, because there are way too many people that know already.

[This message edited by ibonnie at 1:23 PM, August 14th (Wednesday)]

Uddup praying for wisdom and strength for you today on the confrontation.

Hi everyone. Thanks for all your responses. I've been at the conference all week but I have been reading. Just typing this on my phone so it's tough to go through and address specific comments etc.

For those that have asked or made suggestions about serving papers etc I am in Canada and the entire country is nofault. So no matter the reason for the break-up there is no difference in how property and assets are divided. You also don't generally just "serve papers". I could but in my case I make significantly more than my WW so the more I can keep the divorce amicable the better the outcome for me. I've spoken to a lawyer to get the lay of the land (free through my employee assistance program) and also have an appointment with a lawyer in my area to get some more advice. I've had a couple of discussions with therapist (remote Skype-like sessions) that were helpful to get some crisis management. I'll be seeing one of them one wed as well.

One realization is that this is not something I caused, not something I can control and not something I can cure. My WW clearly has some sort of issue (my best guess is Sex and Love addiction) and likely a personality disorder.

None of that excuses the behavior, she is 100% responsible for her own actions. It is actually a relief for me because I can let go of the need to fix things because I can't. It's not me, it's not us it's her. Not that I don't have my own issues I need to address to ensure my future relationships are healthier. Thinking back over everything I'm probably co- dependant and I need to deal with the trauma as I've never really gotten over the stuff from before all this came to light.

I'll confront her as soon as I can get a couple of hours where I know the kids won't be around.

IBonnie I shared your messaging recommendation for telling the kids with the therapists and they agreed it was a measured and age appropriate way to deliver this very difficult news.

Gonna be a shitty weekend.

Good luck this weekend.

Thanks! Gotta admit, I spend 3 weeks a year in Vegas, which is about 3 weeks too many, and this is the first time that I didn't want to leave.

Hi uddup, your story is what scares the shit out of me when it comes to R with my WW.

I dont have any advise that others haven't already provided, just wanted to send you strength, confrontations are some of the worst parts of this mess.

Stay strong fellow Canuck!

I feel we spend a lot of energy trying to Dx our WS. I’m guilty here too. I guess it somehow makes us feel better (like: it’s not that I have a bad picker, it’s that my WS is... [insert Dx]) . I’ve kind of come to the conclusion that it’s a distraction and probably a waste of our energy, because 99% of cheaters are

just your garden variety entitled asshole who likes attention, at the expense of those closest to her.

My WH is broken as hell, I don’t know with what. I dont know why. I do know he is not a safe partner. And I think that’s all that really matters.

Uddup, I can’t find words to say how sorry I am that this happened to you. You and your children will be in my thoughts this weekend.

Godspeed in this next journey.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 5:51 PM, August 16th, 2019 (Friday)]

@Jameson1977. Dude it's our worst fucking nightmare scenario coming to reality.

In Houston now. On the plane for the last leg.

Just need to take this one step at a time.

Every inch closer I get to home the anxiety amps up.