SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It is widely accepted around here that infidelity is a form of abuse, and infidelity thus causes trauma.

But what does that mean, really? And what does that mean about the WS? How do we come to accept that WE are abusers? No better or worse than the spouse that inflicts physical abuse?

Furthermore, what does that mean about the BS? We have propelled them into victimhood by the trauma we inflict through our abuse. What does it mean to be a victim and to identify as one?

I'm curious as to thoughts from both sides of the spectrum.

My x husband is in the prison for trying to kill me.

What my cheater did to me was so much worse.

What the x did was in my face. Honest. It sucked. It hurt. But the bruises are gone.

What my cheater did was so much worse. I trusted him. He would never hurt me. He used my trust against me. Knowing my past.

That level of abuse is pathological.

I'll speak for myself of course. To me, when my wife decided to cheat on me she immediately placed me in a 'victim' role...a victim because she stripped me of all of my power to make choices for myself in my own life for her own personal gain. She caused me to doubt my own intuition, and to essentially compromise myself to her for her own gain yet again. Everything she did was for her to feel better at my expense. I would have chosen better for myself but she robbed me of that choice by way of manipulation. She violated my body when she slept with her AP and I, subjecting me to potential STD's, she used me, completely, to feel better about herself. She gave up her own power her whole life by being a liar - among other things, and essentially stripped me of all of mine through way of manipulation to compensate herself.

She could have let me go...but why? Why treat me like a human being that should have choices in their own life when she can manipulate me and keep me while still getting more of what she wants from others? At of course, a complete disregard for my protection, autonomy, body, mind, etc.

For all intents and purposes, my wife made me her victim of abuse. Hurt people, hurt people...and instead of dealing with her own pain she passed it all to me. I had my own FOO issues too...I didn't pass them on to her...and in her betrayal I got double the healing to do. Because she wanted to escape, to be selfish. She could have destroyed herself by herself and let me go, but she didn't. She chose to drag me with her while I had no clue.

All of this aside though, part of my healing has been for me to remove myself from place of victim. I do this by taking accountability for myself in realizing that even though I didn't know she was cheating on me - I knew I deserved better on some levels than what she was offering me as a partner...and I allowed it. I stayed. I sacrificed, and compromised myself to the point of completely losing myself to her and that was MY choice. Sure my thoughts were misguided at the time in my ignorance, but it was still MY choice to do that. No one made me do it. And for that I will continue to take accountability so that I am no longer a victim and empower myself to change the things that allowed for me to do this in the first place, and never find myself doing so again.

As for my wife? She has to take accountability for herself and do her own work - or she can choose a life of the same ol' same ol' for herself. I know I certainly won't be joining her on that ship if she does. This time I know better...she can self-destruct and live with her poor choices for her entire life alone this time if she chooses that path...or with someone just like her, whichever. IMO if she chooses to change completely I imagine some of our individual work will parallel one another's. She will have to forgive just like I do, she will have to take accountability just like I do, she will have to remove herself from place of victim just like I do, she will have to be rigorously honest..and be willing to completely face the broken parts of herself, just like I have. We will see where life takes us from here.

She could have destroyed herself by herself and let me go, but she didn't. She chose to drag me with her while I had no clue.

So much this

The hardest part of infidelity for me was that I had to somehow work it out and still live and have sex with the perpetrator (WS) and that is all kinds of confusing.

Then to discover my WS actually has a personality disorder and now I'm left traumatized from his pathological abuse.

That level of abuse is pathological.

She could have destroyed herself by herself and let me go, but she didn't. She chose to drag me with her while I had no clue.

I struggle with this a lot. Why did I choose to destroy her when I was so intent on destroying myself? What started as a desire to escape the pain of what our life had been the 2 years prior turned into a full on burn down of everything. I think part of it was that I knew because she loved me so much, she wouldn't let me destroy myself or us. I hated myself so much that I went out of my way to make her hate me too.

But then I stayed. I had every opportunity to leave, but instead stayed and piled on the abuse. Not just in my cheating, but in how I treated her and spoke to her the entire time. I abused her in so many ways that I do not know how she is still standing, let alone trying to R with me. A warrior, she is.

She will have to forgive just like I do, she will have to take accountability just like I do, she will have to remove herself from place of victim just like I do, she will have to be rigorously honest..and be willing to completely face the broken parts of herself, just like I have.

There is something painfully beautiful in this statement. The idea that the abuser and the abused must end up walking the same path towards a healthier place.

I don't think I've grasped yet how this kind of truama can be forgiven, or how I can ever get to a place of forgiveness of my self for the pain I have inflicted. How do you even get to that point?

Maise said it very well - the worst part of it for me is that I was chucked into the deep end of infidelity and I had no say or choice in the matter. I too have a lot of FOO issues and a lot of dad issues, all of which my stbx knew about. Him doing what he did in the way he did it just... takes my breath away. To be so unfeeling, so uncaring for someone who he says he loved. As a BS, I really just cannot get my head around that part.

And yeah, this hurt is the kind that you can learn to live with, but the wound goes so deep that I don't know at this point if I can ever truly heal it. I'd rather he had beat me up, just like I'd rather my dad had. The emotional abuse part of it is so insidious.

I am a situational victim of his choices, but I know for me I will do the work I need to to rise above it. I just resent like hell that I was forced into that corner by my cheater and his shitty shitty choices.

For six months after Day1 I definitely felt like a victim - why did he do this to me? Why wasn't I good enough for him? Walked on egg shells around him - afraid to make him mad.

When dday2 hit I thought - this shit stops and it stops now! Told him pack his crap because I was going to personally deliver him to OW since that is obviously what he wanted. He begged for another chance - that's when I stopped feeling like a victim and realized I had control of what I needed him to do and either he stepped up or he could leave. I set boundaries - not for him - I couldn't control wether he would abide by them - but for me. One false step and he was gone. Told him I was no way responsible for the A - nothing I did or didn't do led to the A - that was totally on him.

I was victim - a victim of his selfishness - his brokenness. When I realized his choices had no reflection on me - I was still the person I had always been and - dammit - I like who I am. I had control of my life and I would live it as I wished - he could join me or take his issues and be miserable for the rest of his life. He was the victim - of his

issues - his choices - his brokenness.

Thank you for posting this topic. I needed to read this.

As a BS, I am glad this post was made. I never in a million years would have viewed this as abuse. I have been abused by him in many many ways and this just makes me even sicker. How can someone say I love you and then show you that they don't is heart breaking.

Maise hit the nail on the head as far as I’m concerned.

It never occurred to me that cheating was a form of abuse before or during the act, and for a moment after. I think it had to do with the whole "what he doesn't know won't hurt him" mentality. Because in my mind in order to be abusive your victim has to feel the pain and I had preconceived ideas of what abuse was. Even when my BH found out and knew that pain I still didn't associate the two at first. It wasn't intentional I mean I saw the pain he was in and I knew my actions caused severe damage, I just didn't have that link yet. The knowledge wasn't there.

Coming to SI being surrounded by victims of this kind of abuse, certainly expanded my understanding. It was here that I learned I was an abuser. The first time I read that I know it hit me hard, I was so ashamed of what I was, what I became. I didn't have a hard time accepting it because it made sense that cheating is abusive. All of a sudden I had that link. Processing that knowledge was harder than accepting it. I had to put down the person I thought I was and own the abuse.

Having that expanded knowledge was very important and the catalysis in my desire for change. You can't unknow something and I sure as shit wasn't going to remain an abuser. I knew I couldn't change what I've done and my H will always feel that pain to some degree. But I can do the work to ensure that I'll never hurt anyone like this again. I can turn away from my abusive self, try to make amends, learn to really love him, and hope its enough to make him feel safe with me again.

I would recommend that you read about trauma and what it is and the symptoms. Even do a quick google search to get started. I think it will illuminate a lot of what an affair does to a bs. We have taken away their security, trust - even the trust and confidence that they had in their own judgement. It makes them question every single memory, picture, they no longer know who they have been married to. The trauma caused them not to be able to focus, anxiety that can be severe, mind movies, lack of sleep, the list goes on and on. Some of the things can be long lasting and changed for life. Many have PTSD - take that in - something that people who go to war get after combat experience.

I don’t think people who cheat see that coming at all. Movies, books, limited understanding of other people’s situations that we know have had infidelity issues...it’s all minimized. But just because you didn’t know doesn’t cause the trauma not to happen. Reading a lot about this helped me understand and a deeper level what H was experiencing sometimes very silently. And when you can start to recognize it, it’s heartbreaking. Definitely do some research I think it will be very enlightening. Read in just found out too.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:32 AM, September 6th (Friday)]

That level of abuse is pathological.

I think this sums it up. We chose to do so much. The biggest is taking advantage of trust. That is pathological abuse. That is intentional. We choose to take a "caged bird" for granted and to take advantage of it. Caged because we chose to do harm to a human being, they don't just have to be faithful- it doesn't matter who or what the BS was. Caged because we reap benefits of a faithful spouse and we didn't do right by them. Caged because we did not inform them of our choices and give them their rights. It isn't just about the cheating. It is about lying and manipulating a human being out of their basic rights. We had no moral or ethical values. We had no conscience. It says alot about the depth of our depravity. My wife labeled it as emotional rape. That coming from a CSA survivor. It was worse than anything she had ever been subjected to because she had chosen to have me part of her life. Even with knowing her past trauma, I took her for granted and took advantage of her. Then to pile on that we twist their hands to eat a shit sandwich and go against their own value system if they choose to stay with us because victims just shouldn't stay with their abusers. That is a mental mind fuck for those that were not being abused by us before. For those that had high self confidence and esteem and self respect. I didn't see what that did to my wife when it was going on. I sure as Hell saw what that was doing to her once I "got it". The victim has to do a whole Hell of alot of mental gymnastics to get out of being a victim and making this new marriage work if a wayward chooses to do what is hard and change. Sorry, but that is why I say all cheaters while cheating or still lying/manipulating are cruel monsters till you "own it, get it, and change".

[This message edited by Zugzwang at 9:09 AM, September 6th (Friday)]

I echo others saying that it's worse than being hit. If my XWH had stormed into the house and started throwing punches, I'd have had the chance to hit back, escape, call the cops, something. Mostly I'd have known that I was being abused. I'd have known that he was trying to cause me harm. What my XWH did instead was give me brain damage without me seeing it coming and then, the ultimate insult, claim that it had nothing to do with me. I had no chance to dodge the punch, escape, call the cops, etc. More, I wasn't worthy of the chance to do that because I was a nobody and a nothing, not even a consideration in my own abuse. The person you trust the most dehumanizing you is unimaginable.

It's absolutely brain damage. My actual mind has been altered by this. My thought processes, how I view the world, my ability to trust, my interest in actually trying to trust (very low), my serenity was blown apart, etc. My emotional stability was shattered. It's the most cruel thing. All any of us truly have in the world is ourselves, our minds. He took my mind and shot holes in it. Those bruises don't heal like physical ones do. I am not the same person nor will I ever be the same person I was. That damage isn't just to me either. It spreads out to everyone I interacted with in the first couple of years. My kids suffered because I was brain damaged. My work suffered. My parents suffered. My friends lost me. Anything that does this to a person is a form of abuse. He killed me, in a way. The person he met and married died at his hands. That's abuse.

I'd have thought all of this was a bit hyperbolic before I went through it.

'The Body Keeps The Score.' by Bessel van der Kolk is a great book on Trauma.

It's absolutely brain damage. My actual mind has been altered by this. My thought processes, how I view the world, my ability to trust, my interest in actually trying to trust (very low), my serenity was blown apart, etc. My emotional stability was shattered. It's the most cruel thing. All any of us truly have in the world is ourselves, our minds. He took my mind and shot holes in it. Those bruises don't heal like physical ones do. I am not the same person nor will I ever be the same person I was. That damage isn't just to me either. It spreads out to everyone I interacted with in the first couple of years. My kids suffered because I was brain damaged. My work suffered. My parents suffered. My friends lost me. Anything that does this to a person is a form of abuse. He killed me, in a way. The person he met and married died at his hands. That's abuse.

(((DevastatedDee))) I started to cry when I read this. I feel the same way

I feel ill-used but not abused.

I find language fascinating, so I'm going to quibble about a word.

The reason I don't feel abused is that my W's A was about her, not about me. I truly believe I was collateral and unintended damage. I truly believe my W thought her A would not affect me, at least at first.

When I think of emotional and physical abuse, my sense is that the abuser intends to manipulate the victim and that that intention is a necessary part of the abuse - which means, IMO, if there was no intention to manipulate, there was no abuse.

Trauma? Yes, sure, absolutely. Brain damage? Absolutely.

But I reserve the term 'abuse' for other things.

JMO.

The Body Keeps the Score was, in many ways, a game changer for me. And - it's really flipping long (but IMO well worth it).

Here are the SI-approved links that IMO explained it excellently (these can also be found in the thread in General that is bumped from time to time called something like finally a therapist that gets it):

http://theaddictedmind.com/episode-21-relational-betrayal-trauma-marnie-breecker/

and part 2:

http://theaddictedmind.com/episode-22-relational-betrayal-trauma-marnie-breecker-part-2/

Ms. Breecker and Mr. Osterlind also have a new podcast on betrayal and relational trauma you can find online. It only has a few episodes, starting in May or June of this year.

What does it mean to be a victim and to identify as one?

Obviously, it sucks. In the first several months after dday, I think I kind of clung to an identity as a victim. I don't really know why, other than the discovery and trauma pervaded EVERYTHING in my life. I remember reading other BS whose ddays were months/years before mine saying things like "I refuse to be a victim" or "I will not let being a victim define me" . I remember thinking WTF? BUT THIS HAPPENED - TO THEM AND TO ME!!! I just couldn't grasp that kind of perspective about the harm perpetrated upon us - harm that knows NO justice. About a harm that literally changes our brain chemistry!

Now, my WH decided to attempt suicide, so that added a whole new layer, which I'm confident has hindered my healing and recovery, but it is what it is. And just being able to see it like that (it is what it is) is a step OUT of the "role" of victim.

Obviously, my hope is that I will eventually be able to shed the victim role completely... but I also know that may be naive. The "odds" are that I will battle PTSD and triggers and related anxiety for the rest of my life. S

So, what does it "mean" to be a victim? It means much of my survival comes from sheer grit. It means there are days I cannot brush my teeth - but I can hope that tomorrow will be better. It means that I will have to expend energy - right now, every fucking day- just to keep my head above water and (some days) a gun out of my mouth. It means that I spend a lot of energy finding peace and calm and joy and gratitude, because it feels good AND I know it builds resilience for me to better handle whatever PTSD-related curveball comes at me next. It means that I have to figure out how to forgive myself for still having feelings for my emotional rapist. It means that I do all that I can to find ways to hold my head up high, even though I know that if folks new about my M or my WH's decades-long secret life, they would judge me from a place they know nothing about. It means that I cry - A LOT. It means that sometimes I'm angry - or REALLY angry. It means that I often worry if I have the capacity to be a good parent, because PTSD takes an enormous amount of energy. And it means that I have to find ways - every damn day - to find hope.

But I reserve the term 'abuse' for other things.

Not to threadjack, but this would certainly be a good thread by itself.

But I reserve the term 'abuse' for other things.

Ok - I'm going to jump in and quibble a little too. I think the fact that I received 2 STD/Is from my cheater (one of which I get to enjoy over a lifetime) is pretty well...abusive. The series of events he put into place with his infidelity...that ultimately led to him risking my health was rather shitty. I suppose "negligence" is the nicest word. But "knowingly" and "intentionally" also crossed my mind back then as well.

I suppose I was probably unintended and collateral damage as well. But it sure walks right up to, if not crosses into, something resembling abuse in my mind.

Just a personal .02 so take it for what it's worth.

To quibble...

Abuse is not about "injury". Its about power.

An abuser who punches is looking to have power in the situation...the collateral damage is the victims face. The weapon/vehicle to do that is their fist

The WS wants to have power in the situation...whether that's power to feel differently about themselves, their situation, etc

The vehicle to do that is the affair.

The collateral damage is the spouse.

We must get educated about ANY abuse in order to stop it. Manipulation does NOT have to be a part of abuse.it is usually present in majority of abuse cases.

In order for an abuser to abuse they must objectify/reduce their victim to an object. They need to believe their victim will not be affected because they do not have feelings. Like a chair.

A rape victim passed out is still abused...even if she doesn't remember it.

Abuse is still happening when a victim jumps at the slamming of doors long after the abuser leaves

Abuse still happens when self talk is the same words the abuser used even though they died long ago.

Our spouses derive power from their affairs....thats what makes it abuse. NOT they did/did not intentionally set out to hurt us.

[This message edited by prissy4lyfe at 3:11 PM, September 6th (Friday)]