SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Yep, and in my case, I was doing all the actions because I assumed that's what mattered the most, but without the words and communication the actions were not as impactful, and some were not at all impactful.

[This message edited by hikingout at 10:12 AM, October 15th (Tuesday)]

"I'm sorry" might be the two most useless words strung together in the English language.

This is especially true when someone continues to act in the same way that they apologized for in the first place. Like PP's have been saying, if their actions don't back up their words then their words are hollow.

I did not create the environment

I loved this post when I first saw it, and I love it still. So few words but it fucking spoke to me.

[This message edited by Hallmack at 10:38 AM, October 15th (Tuesday)]

I don’t think I would say I’m sorry has no meaning. It can have no meaning if the person behind those words has no meaning. I understand those of you that feel like these WWs will say and do anything to get what they want. They have shown all of us what they are capable of.

All I know is I dont ever want to find myself in a place where I view my wayward as irredeemable and I’m sorry means nothing. If you can’t believe their apology then you have nothing to even be talking to them about.

[This message edited by Hallmack at 10:46 AM, October 15th (Tuesday)]

I need to hear my wife tell me she is sorry. If she actually feels that she did wrong in her heart then I need to know it and saying those words has meaning.

All the apologies in the world have no power to raise that marriage and restore it among the living.

Genuine remorse did make a difference and help to rebuild and restore my marriage. Without my wife being truly sorry for her poor choices, we couldn't have made it.

That said, I completely understand every word of the original post, because I had those thoughts. I turned away hundreds of apologies in the first year or so. They bounced off with no effect.

It's the actions over time by my wife that added value to the remorse.

I started to believe in her consistent care, the work she did on herself and it removed the doubt of her intentions.

And after a point, if anyone is really trying to reconcile, we have to let the person who hurt us, back in. So, eventually, accepting some of those apologies begins the path back.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 10:47 AM, October 15th (Tuesday)]

A book my WH read said to say it over and over and over again.

Landclark, I remember this being brought up in “Helping Your Spouse Heal,” IIRC... Now that said, it goes MUCH FURTHER and states that a cheater’s apologies must be specific, because otherwise we get exactly what is being described here- Taking the easy route of “talking the talk,” nothing more.

I think that cheaters are eager to attempt to communicate because we can feel progress long before it can become apparent- Especially those of us here who are making progress. Words without action are universally worthless, and the reversal of those catastrophic words and actions is next to impossible. But I think what can maybe be a middle ground is what I describe- That while the changes take hold and if combined with substantive improvement in the character of a cheater, the words can be a meaningful “gap filler.”

I suppose a lot saying what “can be effective,” but that’s how I think about what can be said.

For ME...I couldn't hear "I'm sorry" enough. Only..."I'm sorry" wasn't going to cut it. He had to say what he was sorry FOR.

My H was like cocoplus5nuts' fch. My H NEVER told me he was sorry before DDay. He told me after DDay that he felt HE wasn't ever in the wrong before...it was always up to ME to fix things because I was the one who broke things . He knew however...that this A was ALL on him...and IF he was wrong in this instance...what else was he wrong about? So having my H say he was sorry was HUGE for me.

Maybe it was because he didn't use those words lightly? I'm not sure...but I knew when he told me he was sorry...that he actually meant it. As others have said...those words without actions would have been meaningless.

I think my original intent for this thread was to illustrate infidelity as a death blow to marriage, and to suggest that using mere words, such as "I'm sorry" will not revive the corpse of the spouse victimized by infidelity.

I was trying to create an emotional word picture to help us (me included) understand the reality of the level of damage infidelity causes and the failure (usually) of simple, easy to say words. to solve the problem and make the infidelity go away.

If I have surgery and the physician commits malpractice by leaving a scalpel or sponge inside of me, his "I'm sorry" is not going to solve the problem. I need fixing up; I need the scalpel and sponge removed.

Put it another way, if my broker calls me one day and says "oops, 36, I lost all your money and I'm sorry..." his apology does not solve the problem. I'm still financially devastated, but at least he's sorry.

I agree 36 - I think many people fail to see it as a true trauma. I know that I didn't even understand what trauma was until I had an affair. The vision is correct, but the trauma can't be fixed with just actions, and it can't be fixed with just words, it has to be a distinct combination of both.

And, again, my response is not meant to trample on anything being said, rather to reinforce or clarify for other newer WS reading. As I said, my failure to understand that combination in the opposite way most waywards do things (mine was action without all the words - because I made assumptions about what I should be doing and some of it was based on post like this one) was almost the last failure I made to my marriage.

hikingout:

I don't mean to make light of anyone's effort following the affair. For me, "I'm sorry" is absolutely meaningless. On D-day, my WS said "I'm sorry." it turns out she was sorry about getting caught.

Her original meaning of the term stuck with me for most of the next two years. What was she really sorry about and what backed up her apology? Nothing.

Several years ago I spent a winter's night in a hotel located in Fallon, Nevada. I parked my brand new car in a snow covered parking lot. I paid the appropriate amount of reverence to my new car, by parking it away from all the other vehicles in the parking lot.

In the morning I came out and noticed a dent in the driver door. Apparently a car had parked next to it during the night and opened their door violently into mine. A big, creased dent was the result. However, there was a note left on my car. It said, "I'm sorry." There was no other information.

Was the responsible party sorry. Obviously not. He/she didn't pay for damages. He/she didn't restore the car to its original condition. I paid for their bad behavior. But at least they were sorry.

Sorriness should be accompanied with grief and the desire to restore the one to whom your "I'm sorry" is addressed

[This message edited by 36yearsgone at 12:35 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)]

I don't actually see us as disagreeing.

All I am pointing out is in your car story, I left no note, I never said I was sorry...instead I just made arrangements to have it paid so it could be restored. But, then my H felt hollow that I also didn't leave the "I'm Sorry for <insert thousands of individual and specific cuts>" that came along with the actions to restore the car. He felt that I should recognize the inconveniences he felt along the way - after all, having a car repaired creates a lot of steps now he still has to do to get that car repaired. He has to take it to the shop and find a ride to work, he has to possibly hassle with a rental car, he has to take the rental car back and arrange to pick up his car again.

All I am saying is that without the sorry for what you did along with the restoration, there is something still missing. The most satisfactory thing the person who damaged your car would have been to face you, apologize for the inconveniences (which are only inconveniences in your car story, they are much more than inconveniences when you look at BS healing as you well know), and pay for the damage.

And, honestly I am pointing this out for other WS because I know for a fact just doing the restoration did not work. He needed to know that the things he now has to over come to get that restoration to occur also are appreciated and noticed by me. That I see "him" in it. That can not be accomplished by just actions, and I did that because I knew how hollow and unmeaningful words are from someone you no longer trust and assumed I shouldn't add insult to injury. That simply was not a true thing for my BS. He needed both.

[This message edited by hikingout at 12:36 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)]

And, honestly I am pointing this out for other WS because I know for a fact just doing the restoration did not work. He needed to know that the things he now has to over come to get that restoration to occur also are appreciated and noticed by me. That I see "him" in it. That can not be accomplished by just actions, and I did that because I knew how hollow and unmeaningful words are from someone you no longer trust and assumed I shouldn't add insult to injury. That simply was not a true thing for my BS. He needed both.

hikingout:

Well said. I wonder if other WS's have come to the same conclusions.

I'm sorry on it's own is cheap.

I'm sorry with a why, a for what, a recognition of the pain is way better, and should be given. A consistent I'm sorry with follow up unprompted action that helps is best.

The actions - what should come after an I'm sorry - my WH has no idea. When I tell him what he should do, the actions become so much less meaningful.

What are some the actions that have helped you or helped your BS?

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 6:09 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)]

I can't remember a time that my fch apologized before dday, either. He was never wrong. It was always me.

Husband was never, ever wrong.

I simply misunderstood.

I lacked understanding and/or comprehension.

If my didactic facilities were up to par, this situation wouldn't exist.

One of the biggest, deepest injuries post DDay2 (same incident, years later) was realizing that Husband had intentionally and actively and deliberately leveraged "trust" on me: he had insisted on, cashed in on, exploited this specific type and level of trust by insisting that he wasn't doing anything wrong with other women. Which, factually, may have been true in subsequent situations. I can choose to believe that, or not.

Even while he was acting out in ways that would (and did) cause any sane wife (person) to question what the hell was happening, hours after every public watering hole and club venue had long closed?

OK, in those specific episodes, he may not have been pushing those limits, nor outright busting through them. There is plenty to be said for that, and it very well may have been true. But, here's the thing: he'd already busted right through those boundaries. He'd already done the deed- and yet it was on me to believe his subsequent insistence that "nothing had happened" in situations that were clearly questionable.

And he knew that. He knew it. He knew what he'd already done. I did not. I did not have the full truth.

In substantial ways, this is the crux of what makes him a cheater.

I sorta, kinda, got it then- that *something* had happened, and that I sorta, kinda, understood it, but I also knew then that I really didn't. And in that space, on behalf of my marriage and of my children, I got my arm twisted. I let it happen. Rug sweeping.

Years later, finding out that he'd already cheated, and then spent several more years acting out and arm twisting me to believe that nothing untoward was happening *this* time...

(which may have been absolutely true, but I'll never know, he introduced a whole other layer of doubt through immature and irresponsible choices)

... yeah, there's a trauma and a sack of knives full of doubts and questions all its own.

How exactly do I "reclaim my power" at this late date, in this situation?

Hell if I know.

Words without the appropriate actions to back them up are worthless.

Someone used this analogy, which I think is very similar to others used in this thread. Take a plate, maybe a piece of really nice china. Throw it on the stone driveway.

Now say sorry.

Does it change anything? No, that plate is still in a million pieces on the driveway. What changes things is what the plate-thrower does NOW.

The plate-thrower cannot make the plate whole again. The plate-thrower can start to do things that will mend the plate and make it serviceable, but it will never be whole and unblemished again. Ever. Things are totally and irreparably changed at this point.

The Japanese believe that "wounds" like this are to be celebrated and not hidden, so they repair something of this nature with an adhesive with actual gold in it. The wounds or scars then become something of beauty. I find this an interesting concept, since the wounds of betrayal really don't go away. They are always a part of our lives, no matter what happens. So making them beautiful? Interesting concept.

"I'm sorry" with no change in behavior or mindset is beyond worthless and is actually cruel. Do these people believe that just saying something without some sort of meaningful action on their part is going to help? And are these the same types that get irritated when their wounded spouse or partner isn't "better" (read: no longer curled in a fetal position crying and asking the same questions over and over) in 5.2 seconds? How many of us heard, "But I SAID I was SORRY."

I bet more than a few.

True remorse leading to genuine reconciliation is composed of words, listening, empathy, forebearance, commitment, action, and a resolute and unwavering dedication to doing whatever it takes to be a force of healing.

That's why real reconciliation is rare. The same weaknesses that contributed to a WS being a WS are the same weaknesses that make doing what it takes enormously hard.

Sorry is cheap. Words are cheap. While it can be painful to look at the action and see no change (which is why we are listening to the words in the first place), it's essential if we are to keep ourselves from more pain and angst.

Cat

What has you wife not done that makes her "I'm sorry" empty of meaning? What must she do to show you she is sorry and wants to fix what she broke. Sometimes both the WS and the BS don't really know what to do or what mush happen to start repairing the damage that has been caused. I do wish you well.

What are some the actions that have helped you or helped your BS?

He expressed empathy. He admitted what he did and took full responsibility for it. He took active steps to work on himself and do whatever I said I needed. He went NC, of course.

I feel like I’m starting to see empathy and true remorse from my WW. She’s written me a email and a letter that makes me feel like she really gets it. When things get difficult she reminds me that she’s not going to give up and that she now knows she wants to be with me and that she loves me.

What has you wife not done that makes her "I'm sorry" empty of meaning? What must she do to show you she is sorry and wants to fix what she broke. Sometimes both the WS and the BS don't really know what to do or what mush happen to start repairing the damage that has been caused. I do wish you well.

anoldlion:

My original post at the start of this thread was not specifically aimed at my WS. It is more of a general observation of most Waywards.