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Yes I would send that last message.

It's a good boundary message

I agree. Send that last message. It tells her your limits in no uncertain terms. Good luck.

That has been really hard to understand, why you did not see or say that you recognized this was extremely wrong. I never thought we would be in this situation either...

You are trying to guilt her into choosing you. The Pick Me Dance never, EVER works.

Dave,

No harm in sending the email. She is in very aroused situation (it shows from her texts to the POS). Lust make one blind. Rest assured a serious relationship cannot come out of the way they are communicating.(in her inner mind she knows this. That is why she is checking you out) The POS will have his day and disappear.

Looks like you still have strong emotional connections to her, so it is understandable you want to keep the option of reconciliation possible and not to respond to her in direct manner. So if you still want to make the marriage work and prevent her from going to Maine, Just tell that to her and ask for a talk. But stay stern to your stand. Then at least you can tell yourself you tried your best

[This message edited by goalong at 1:30 PM, December 16th (Monday)]

Dave,

It has got to be difficult to come here for help, and to be hit with a barrage of advice from all different angles: "Do this." "Don't do this." "Do that." Etc......

But when you filter everything down, you need to realize (2) things:

1. The pictures taken are an ENTIRELY different topic than your wife's infidelity. Was it wrong? You have already answered that question several times. Did it have a huge effect on your wife, and may be something that she can not get past? Sure it may, but it has zero to do with her choice to step outside of your marriage.

2. Your wife's affair is 100% on her. NOTHING that you have done....past, present, or future....can justify an affair. That is why it is critical that you not allow your shame for past behaviors to weigh in on your decision making as it pertains to the affair.

You have been told by many to state to your wife that if she goes to Maine, you are filing for divorce. That isn't bad advice, specifically if that is your belief. IF it is your ultimate line in the sand, not one person is going to argue with you on that. She is showing a blatant lack of care for you, the marriage, or even herself. But if there is the possibility that you are open to possible reconciliation, then you can still be firm and get your message across without any absolute ultimatums. I like the text that you sent, and I personally do think that you should work on dissolving the marriage. Get that lawyer consult done; finish moving your financials; get your ducks in a row. Get divorce paperwork prepared, because as of right now, her actions tell you that she is not going to stop her affair.

And you can file any time that you want. I am just not a huge fan of ultimatums unless you are 100% convinced that is what you want. And broken ultimatums simply make a person less and less effective in their words. Your wife may simply be playing a game of chicken with your threats( it's amazing how fucked up a wayward mind can be), and believes that she can resume 'negotiations' after her affair rendezvous. What if she discovers that the grass wasn't greener in Maine, and wants to try to reconcile? Is that even a possibility with you? I'm not pushing for you to reconcile; I just want your words and actions to sync up, and have the most influential effect on your WW.

Is going to Maine an absolute, 100% dealbreaker for any future steps going forward?

Despite all of the advice we are offering, only you can truly decide what the last straw is.

We just don't like to watch a new BS come along and flail and suffer like we all have before you.

It has got to be difficult to come here for help, and to be hit with a barrage of advice from all different angles: "Do this." "Don't do this." "Do that." Etc......

But when you filter everything down, you need to realize (2) things:

1. The pictures taken are an ENTIRELY different topic than your wife's infidelity. Was it wrong? You have already answered that question several times. Did it have a huge effect on your wife, and may be something that she can not get past? Sure it may, but it has zero to do with her choice to step outside of your marriage.

2. Your wife's affair is 100% on her. NOTHING that you have done....past, present, or future....can justify an affair. That is why it is critical that you not allow your shame for past behaviors to weigh in on your decision making as it pertains to the affair.

Yes, it's overwhelming, plus I've done a ton of reading on various sites, talked to my parents (very christian who lean a lot more towards more forgiveness than on here), friends who have gone through similar things, etc. It can get confusing..

I'm very much accepting 1 and 2 above, that is really sinking in and I can't tell you all how helpful and liberating it is becoming (it's still processing).

You have been told by many to state to your wife that if she goes to Maine, you are filing for divorce. That isn't bad advice, specifically if that is your belief. IF it is your ultimate line in the sand, not one person is going to argue with you on that. She is showing a blatant lack of care for you, the marriage, or even herself. But if there is the possibility that you are open to possible reconciliation, then you can still be firm and get your message across without any absolute ultimatums. I like the text that you sent, and I personally do think that you should work on dissolving the marriage. Get that lawyer consult done; finish moving your financials; get your ducks in a row. Get divorce paperwork prepared, because as of right now, her actions tell you that she is not going to stop her affair.

Yes, her actions tell me that she is not going to stop, even her last text which stated she was sorry for being selfish still just says to reconcile in the future for our childrens sake (which means still not be together, I'm going to go screw this guy).

And you can file any time that you want. I am just not a huge fan of ultimatums unless you are 100% convinced that is what you want. And broken ultimatums simply make a person less and less effective in their words. Your wife may simply be playing a game of chicken with your threats( it's amazing how fucked up a wayward mind can be), and believes that she can resume 'negotiations' after her affair rendezvous. What if she discovers that the grass wasn't greener in Maine, and wants to try to reconcile? Is that even a possibility with you? I'm not pushing for you to reconcile; I just want your words and actions to sync up, and have the most influential effect on your WW.

Is going to Maine an absolute, 100% dealbreaker for any future steps going forward?

That's the turmoil in my soul... I understand all the advice, but it's not an absolute deal breaker and I want to have reconciliation open. Even if she goes, sees the grass is greener, and recognizes just WTF she is doing. I think there are GLIMPSES of her seeing that based on a few things I haven't been able to put down here (some I did, but stuff like stating she is a bad person, is confused, her head says to work things out with me, but she loses her mind every time he texts her, her going through all the wedding albums and photos, her leaving her wedding ring on, etc.). They don't all line up of course with the words she says to him. But, I've been addicted to porn, achohol, and cigarettes, I KNOW how an addiction can take over your mind. So I want to strike a balance between an ultimatum I can feel confident in delivering, that might help wake her up and shock her system, gives me my power back, and also gives me an out if she is just 100% done and out of this.

I'm also not one to just react and say the first thing that comes to mind. I take my time and evaluate options, carefully word things, and am generally a very empathetic person (a blessing and a curse, as you see here and reading no more mr nice guy right now is showing me haha).

Despite all of the advice we are offering, only you can truly decide what the last straw is.

We just don't like to watch a new BS come along and flail and suffer like we all have before you.

And I can't tell you how much I appreciate that... It's really helpful, beyond the confusion I feel. It's causing me to really pause, evaluate things, and really think hard about what I want, who I am, and what I expect and deserve.

This has all happened so fast, and with the darn plans having already been in place to go to Maine as I found this out, it's forcing me to deal with things really quickly (which is probably a good thing as I can't drag my feet too much)!

Upfront most BS's just want them back.

But later the "what did I get back" sets in.

At this time nothing matters except what are her actions telling you?

Could you accept being her plan B fallback guy if this doesn't work out for her?

You'd better take care of you. No one else will

Let me explain my confusion another way - I was repeatedly told by family and friends my drinking was a problem. I repeatedly hid it, then cut back, etc. I got a DUI a few years ago and it really woke me up. It still took another year or so before I actually severely cut down the drinking, but still have had maybe 3 binge sessions since then. It wasn't until all this hit that I decided (for MYSELF) that I need to wake up to the reality and quit drinking completely, it damaged my judgement and ability to see things, and causes selfishness in my actions (NOT THAT IT EXCUSES HER BEHAVIOR).

So, the same grace and mercy that was extended to me, I do try and extend. It's just obviously EXTREMELY PAINFUL, and different, when your wife is planning on having sex, compared to my "cheating" with a bottle.

I get that, and want to find a way to say to her, this is unacceptable, I will be taking steps to cause consequences, which WILL definitely lead to me leaving you, without the 100% ultimatum that divorce papers will be in her hand when she returns. But I don't know how to do that.

I think by the wording "if you go, I'm absolutely done" says that, and I can begin following through with that, and she doesn't HAVE TO KNOW that I may extend some grace time as we go through the actual process for her to show true remorse and desire to change...

Upfront most BS's just want them back.

But later the "what did I get back" sets in.

At this time nothing matters except what are her actions telling you?

Her actions tell me of a conflicted, confused person who is in the midst of her first ever addiction - she doesn't smoke, drink, or anything. She has ALWAYS been the responsible and good head on her shoulders girl. She has actions that show remorse and she has actions that show a complete disregard for those around her, a place I can completely empathize with...

Could you accept being her plan B fallback guy if this doesn't work out for her?

You'd better take care of you. No one else will

I can accept that IF we both are not the same people we were before! (I recognize that this could be due to a low self-esteem, which I am also addressing in therapy, which again I'm ok having time to explore). I am changing for the better, so she's not getting the old me back. I am learning to take care of myself (I've spent the last year getting into working out, I quit smoking a year ago, cut drinking, eating healthy, etc. - and I'm recognizing areas I would like to be a better man and husband for WHOMEVER I end up with, and my kids) She would HAVE to change, and address the "why" of this, I'm not taking this version of her!

I think that means I'm more comfortable with having separation papers done vs divorce papers. I mean, I'm still talking to the attorney and just want to know all the options and such, and I MUST stand up for myself and set boundaries and consequences! We can still have a time period to really be separate, her to really feel the reality of what it would be like, and see what she is missing, and if she wants that. And it gives me time to actually process this, what I want, and see if she makes any changes and would still be a good partner.

[This message edited by uberdave223 at 2:29 PM, December 16th (Monday)]

Also - her FREAKING FAMILY completely not helping her, and saying EITHER - what are you doing, work on your marriage, OR - hey, you need time away from BOTH of them, take some time and space to yourself. Cut off contact with this other guy, cut off contact with your husband other than kids (that's what I suggested as a way for her to clear her head).

Instead, they are just thinking because she "seems happier" with him that you should just pursue that feeling... So she has a shit support network, where I have you guys, family, and friends giving me solid practical advice, more rooted in reality.

At the end of the day she is a grown woman and knows right from wrong.

Sorry but there is no excuse.

She's making a decision/choice in this.

You are still confusing yourself

Try this: You go off to fuck some man outside of your marriage - don't be surprised if you come home to a broken family.

My wife does not get to fuck men outside the marriage.

***

Use REAL WORDS. Tell her what's really up.

I would listen to faithfulman on this. Using words that describe the dirtiness of her planned actions will resonate. My WW would get very upset when I described things like fucking another guy or spreading your legs for him.

It hits home how filthy all this shit is. Don't hold back.

You are experiencing hopuim. It’s very common to hope that our WS will see the light and everything will go back the way it was. But by sending those texts, she’s already a cheater, this is who she is, you’ll need to accept that just like all of us here accepted that.

Don’t forget that she’s not only leaving you, she is breaking up the family unit. You children will be affected. She will hurt her children for the opportunity to go sit on some guy’s face. Doesn’t that make you mad?

Divorce is about two adults going their separate ways. There won’t be “reconciliation” after. You can make that clear to her, make it real:

“When you leave I’ll be proceeding with D with my lawyer. Please don’t communicate with me anymore except for the children. Also let my lawyer know where I should put your stuff.”

But, of course you have to be able to follow through.

Just a couple of thoughts for you to consider:

It is often said here that you have to be willing to risk losing the M in order to have any chance of saving the M. Firm resolve and firm action wins the day.

When a WS wants a separation it is because they often just want an opportunity to try out the new man and have lots of sex. Not to consider her options. Not to think of the consequences. Not to think about you and your kids. Just a good time to go have fun with the new guy.

Good luck.

Sounds like you know what you need to do but just can't which means you'll continue to wallow.

This will get worse not better.

Sounds like you know what you need to do but just can't which means you'll continue to wallow.

This will get worse not better.

No, you are absolutely right. I'm just going to re-read this thread, think things over a bit, and need to be 100% committed. For this evening at least, I will be no contact - we will discuss the kids and nothing else. If she does happen to initiate conversation, then I will just say what I was going to in the text, but I als ohave a print out of her messages to the guy and I"M going to read the bad parts to her (or is that a horrible idea)?

I used to do sales, and was a good salesman, IF I was committed to the product. Your advice has been excellent, and obviously I'm wallowing. I need to be onboard and "sold" on it first, otherwise I will definitely make things worse.

Thank you for your patience and continuing to try and beat this crap into my head!

It is often said here that you have to be willing to risk losing the M in order to have any chance of saving the M. Firm resolve and firm action wins the day.

When a WS wants a separation it is because they often just want an opportunity to try out the new man and have lots of sex. Not to consider her options. Not to think of the consequences. Not to think about you and your kids. Just a good time to go have fun with the new guy.

^^^This 1000% Please don't allow yourself to be Plan B. You don't deserve this and neither do your children.

Continue to work on your self-esteem in therapy. I honestly think once the shock wears off, you will be thinking more clearly and understand that your wife is playing a cruel game with your heart.

When I found out about my husband's infidelity, he knew that day that I was in control, I would not tolerate any more abuse, either my way or the highway. I would not allow myself to continue to be disrespected. Yes, I did make some minor missteps along the way, but he knew I meant business.

Video voyeurism Prevention Act of 2004. If you still have those picture on your phone or computer reset to factory settings. All it would take is for you to be accused. That might get thrown out of court but your reputation would be sunk.

Her actions tell me of a conflicted, confused person who is in the midst of her first ever addiction

As a former addict/alcoholic I know all about what addiction is and what it is not. Screwing around on one's husband or wife is not an addiction. It is a cold, calculating series of decisions based in selfishness and possible narcissism done of her own free will.

she doesn't smoke, drink, or anything.

She doesn't show any signs of having an addictive personality so how can her actions be described as those of an addict?

God bless you for your compassion for your WW and for your deep introspection. But this is not the right time for that.