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EXPOSE her A with all family and close friends, also file for D and have her served in Maine, you deserve so much better than a proven cheater and a liar, don't forget to get tested for STDs, this may not be her first rodeo.

You know how there are things you really want to do, but know it wouldn’t be for the best? I have that feeling now, if I were in your sneakers.

I would be tempted to contact the OM just before she leaves for the airport and let him know that if they meet up, regardless of whether or not they have sex, they need to start making wedding plans. “By the time she gets home, she will be divorced and you can have her all to yourself, which is what you want, right? But, you get the whole package: You pay for the wedding, for moving her out to you, cell phone subscriptions, health and life and car insurance, and the added expenses of clothes, food, and personal needs. Plus, she’s not coming alone. She will have # kids with her, and they all need braces, play sports, and need help with their homework. They will also need clothes, food, a place to live, and personal needs. I will be there for birthday and Christmas presents, but you take care of college, cars, and driver training.

" ** If you really want her, she’s all yours!! ** “

I would say that, though, AFTER I moved all my money into an account she doesn’t have access to! I’m sure the other advice is much more practical, but that would be fun to do!

Depending on where you live you my be able to find legal aid for low income folks , if you only have access to $300.

Lawyers want a lot of money ($500-1000) up front as a retainer. Anything you can sell to raise the money

In summary, be clear in your communication to your WW. Stop waffling. You either want her to know what you are saying, or you don't. If you don't then continue being vague.

Take control of your life, and that of your children. They will need you to be stable, safe, dependable, healthy. As such, go on the planned family outings, and be as normal as you can with your kids. This does not mean that you have to hug and kiss your WW in front of them, just do not argue/disagree in front of them.

I've been trying to sleep and this is the type of stuff I'm just running through my head and committing to. I'm DONE being vague!

She will know 100% clearly that anything less than full no contact with him (and more boundaries as others have laid out) means I am going to be serving her divorce papers. I will not argue or get sucked in to any side discussions. She made the choice to not come to me and ask for either change, or out of the marriage. SHE made the choice when I was hurting to double down and pursue an affair with a man outside of our marriage.

[This message edited by uberdave223 at 3:44 AM, December 16th (Monday)]

I will not argue or get sucked in to any side discussions.

Good start. Focus on the real issue, not the chaff that your WW throws at you. Do not deviate.

She made the choice to not come to me and ask for either change, or out of the marriage.

Absolutely. It is/was her choice, and her choice alone.

SHE made the choice when I was hurting to double down and pursue an affair with a man outside of our marriage.

So, will you let her continue letting her kick you whilst you are down?

I'm DONE being vague!

You don't have to be a bastard about this, but you should have a clear head when you engage. Form a clear strategy, execute that strategy clearly.

You will then find out whether your M is worth saving or not, depending on your WW's reaction.

As I have said before in other posts, the BS is the Prize, not the WS. The BS chasing the WS will just end up with the BS getting a booby prize.

State your position clearly, and stand firm. You continue on your path out of infidelity, and if your WW decides to join you, well and good. If she decides to go to her AP, well, you know what to do. *hint: not the Pick Me dance*

Do not surrender your self-respect/morals to accommodate your WW. It will not be worth it on the long run. You will be miserable.

Most WS want to justify their affair. They will justify it by saying how crazy their spouse is yelling and screaming "just because they want to go see a friend " .

If you do confront her, stay calm. Like ordering a Big Mac. It is what it is, and if it escalates, walk away. Many WW file for false DV, and that is why one poster suggested that you wear a Voice Activated Recorder. But those costs money and you don’t have much.

Like others have said, as a BS you have more value than a WS. When/if you become single, would you date a divorced mother, that got divorced because she was cheating on her husband? I wouldn’t.

If you open a topic in General and ask: would you date a man/woman who abandoned his/her family and had an affair?

The answer would be:

HAHAHSHAHAHA NO

So stay calm, you have all the aces in your hand.

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 5:41 AM, December 16th (Monday)]

I will do all that - for the lawyer, I've only got like $300, do they generally bill up front? All my credit cards and stuff are joint accounts. I will close any of those accounts I can. I moved my checking account cash into my own savings and will just make sure to remove her from the account tomorrow.

Close the account she has access to and move it to another bank. Banks have been known to link accounts and give spouses access to new accounts if they had access to the old accounts. Also, don't close all the credit cards, if you have room on one use it to pay the lawyer. Who cares if she sees it on the statement.

She will know 100% clearly that anything less than full no contact with him (and more boundaries as others have laid out) means I am going to be serving her divorce papers.

No contact with him means no contact with her sister. Is there any chance she'll agree to that?

You don't have to be a bastard about this, but you should have a clear head when you engage. Form a clear strategy, execute that strategy clearly.

Yea I'm not going to be mean about it, just firm. I'm not generally vindictive or highly emotional. I AM mad at myself for waffling so much and not being clear earlier, but I think it's a bit understandable and am forgiving myself for it considering the circumstances.

If you do confront her, stay calm. Like ordering a Big Mac. It is what it is, and if it escalates, walk away. Many WW file for false DV, and that is why one poster suggested that you wear a Voice Activated Recorder. But those costs money and you don’t have much.

I will stay calm, and walk away if needed. I put a VAR app on my phone for now at least.

Close the account she has access to and move it to another bank. Banks have been known to link accounts and give spouses access to new accounts if they had access to the old accounts. Also, don't close all the credit cards, if you have room on one use it to pay the lawyer. Who cares if she sees it on the statement.

Unfortunately, she has the physical credit cards as far as I know. I will see if I can grab it somehow, but I know it will be in her purse. I did hit a deer last week and so maybe I will find a way to tell her I need to use it to pay for the deductible when I pick up the car (either that or we were going to pull money out of savings).

No contact with him means no contact with her sister. Is there any chance she'll agree to that?

About a .00001% chance - The guy is getting an apartment, but he would ALWAYS be a part of their life. Not to mention, the whole family "just wanting her to be happy" - the sister in maine is actively encouraged and is enabling this by helping them go on the date. The brother in law asked if the guy had sent dick pics yet while they were talking on the phone...

So, honestly I don't see a way forward other than divorce without her doing some absolutely crazy level of restitution. And breaking some family ties which is impossible, she is INCREDIBLY close with them.

She re-sent me the invite to Maine this morning, after absolutely no talking last night or this morning. I was going to send her back the following email:

I just want to be clear what this invite from you means - we are beginning the separation process. We both need time apart legally and physically and really have to see if this is right. I understand I waffled a bit but dealing with the shock and betrayal of what you were saying to me was extremely difficult to process and I needed time, and planning a trip so quickly to consummate the relationship forced my hand. I’m making positive changes for the good and I am worth more than being married to someone who’s dating other men, but I’m still willing to give us time and think about our situation and relationship. What you are doing will change everything. If you want to talk about how we can work on restoring our marriage, I’m available any time. Otherwise, we keep our communication and interactions strictly children based, remain civil and respectful to each other and family, and begin the process of separation this week.

Seems like it is following the advice given here, but would love some affirmation or revisions if needed.

Thanks guys. Also I created a new checking account and will move some of my money there. Also reached out to 3 different lawyers to get consultations.

Printed out the 180 and am reviewing it periodically.

I don't like it....too wordy.

I would just tell her if she goes to Maine, I will divorce you and mean it.

[This message edited by Gutpunch at 8:29 AM, December 16th (Monday)]

She re-sent me the invite to Maine this morning

That means Is she inviting you?

When is her trip? You may want to keep quite, if she is worrying about the relationship she will try to contact you. Then you can discuss what you mentioned in the email.

Hope she has the capacity to understand the difference between meeting people for fun and parties and the real life. looks like she has been fully taken by the excitement.

If she go anyhow she will try to keep you in tow by shedding some tears, promising nothing will happen, will contact you regularly etc. Do not agree to any of those

[This message edited by goalong at 8:49 AM, December 16th (Monday)]

Do not open Pandora’s box. It’s full of snakes. Don’t bring up the pictures. If she does apologize immediately. Tell her you are sorry. Just hope pictures you took four years ago are gone. I will tell you, as a woman, that’s creepy. You should not have done it but it’s in the past and I hope it is not something you do anymore. If your wife knew about the pictures that probably started your marriage down hill and it has not recovered. It would do that to me.

Stay neutral. Don’t get angry and don’t be hurt. Tell her you recognize that your marriage is over and you don’t want to be part of an antagonistic divorce. Divide your finances up equitably, get the divorce done and move on. The sooner the better.

That means Is she inviting you?

When is her trip? You may want to keep quite, if she is worrying about the relationship she will try to contact you. Then you can discuss what you mentioned in the email.

Hope she has the capacity to understand the difference between meeting people for fun and parties and the real life. looks like she has been fully taken by the excitement.

If she go anyhow she will try to keep you in tow by shedding some tears, promising nothing will happen, will contact you regularly etc. Do not agree to any of those

No, we just use the calendars to make sure we know where and what we are doing so we can coordinate kid stuff, babysitters, make sure one of us is not available in case the other wants to do something, etc.

I like the just keep quiet and begin the process of divorce on the side, and have my ducks in a row if she really goes through with it.

Do not open Pandora’s box. It’s full of snakes. Don’t bring up the pictures. If she does apologize immediately. Tell her you are sorry.

I have, and am sorry (and will say it again). It's deeply shameful.

Just hope pictures you took four years ago are gone. I will tell you, as a woman, that’s creepy. You should not have done it but it’s in the past and I hope it is not something you do anymore. If your wife knew about the pictures that probably started your marriage down hill and it has not recovered. It would do that to me.

Yes, it certainly was the major breach and has caused a lot of this and I know it was creepy. It's also why I have not been taking such a hard line as people are saying (although should still have been more firm). It is not something I do anymore, although I did start counseling and this is a mjor thing I'm addressing.

Stay neutral. Don’t get angry and don’t be hurt. Tell her you recognize that your marriage is over and you don’t want to be part of an antagonistic divorce. Divide your finances up equitably, get the divorce done and move on. The sooner the better.

How about this then as a response:

I recognize that this marriage is over, we have done too much damage to each other, and we need to figure out how to move on. I don’t want to be part of an antagonistic divorce, so we should talk together with a family law attorney and figure out a way forward as soon as possible. In the meantime, we just make sure to be civil and respectful, keep the kids FIRST and make sure they know 100% that mommy and daddy love them no matter what.

Personally I like the first version of your response. Either way you are making it clear that you're not tolerating a third person in your marriage.

Hi Uber.

To me your messages are fine. I have no problem definitively telling her that interacting any way with the AP means the end of your marriage.

Perhaps add to the beginning of your second version something to the effect of;

“It appears you intend to continue and consummate your relationship with this other person. You may not care at this point but by doing so, you should know that will be a point of no return for our own relationship. It appears that is what you want.

I do not want that, but I cannot remain in a relationship with a wife who is actively in one with another person. I am disappointed it has come to this point. I am willing to work to rebuild our marriage but that would require you to stop all communication with this other person and a lot of difficult changes for both of us. I believe we are worth it but I can tell you no longer do.

So, (and then continue with the 2nd letter you wrote)”

I wish you strength in the days ahead.

"WW,

You are free to date any men you want but not as my wife. As you are making dating arrangements with another man, I’ll be proceeding with D. Let’s make sure to be civil and respectful, in the interest of our children. I wish you the best in your new life"

So what did you do with her sister’s pictures? Did you use them for pleasure? That to me would be unforgivable and maybe she needs another man to reassure that she’s still beautiful and lovable? I personally would have a hard time forgiving this. Out of ALL the women around you take pics of her sister?!?! Maybe you deserve it. Disrespectful, voyeuristic, peeping tom.

Yes, I've waffled too much. I feel like an idiot... I didn't know how to react, it's so confusing.

Please, don't kick yourself for this. I was emotionally ALL over the map when it happened to me, and then the anger took over, and everything became frosty clear. None of us, nobody on this board, is perfect. We've all made mistakes and wish we could have a do-over about life. Yet, I'm pretty sure none of us made the conscious decision to screw another person out of some imaginary mental vendetta, however, and that's what your wife did.. the one person in life you thought you could trust implicitly. What you've just experienced is enormous. I know you're reeling. You'd have to be a freakin' superman to process this stuff mentally. As I've said before.. you're angry right now but your body hasn't caught up with your mind. You probably feel listless and out of it, a lot? That's the shock of it all. Now is NOT the time to retreat into a shell. Any weakness, any begging or waffling (henceforth) will giver her ammunition.

Let me be frank, Dave. I've read your thread all the way through and I'm not seeing a profile of someone who wants to participate in reconciliation. She's made up her mind and was more than willing to bail on being a wife and mom to do it. This is hard.. and scary territory. You will need a support network going forward. I can assure you SI will be there for you. You're already getting the good advice I would give you.. the 180, getting a VAR recorder to protect yourself against bullshit Spousal Abuse allegations, you were on your game when you collected screenshots of evidence to support yourself if you need them. You've already heard about getting checked for STIs, and you're already seeing a lawyer (initial consultation is often free, btw). I know you know what to do going forward. You are constrained by finances. Take action to separate them. Not good with money? GET good with handling money. I guarantee she will screw you over on that score, from the sounds of her behavior. Get car seats. Focus on your children. Minimize contact with her. YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you, you have my sympathy and support.. and I agree with everyone who is saying "File the papers". Your wife isn't the woman you married any more. She is now bad news. Protect yourself, protect your kids.

Website error - double post (see next post)

[This message edited by uberdave223 at 9:52 AM, December 16th (Monday)]