SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Look, this formula has worked for me since I was 13. Don't go ruining it with math.[*]

* English Lit major for a reason.

[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 6:13 PM, February 3rd (Monday)]

Loukas...just wanted to respond to you about age and fertility. I see your point on that. You are still young my friend and it does depend on the woman. I had kids in my 30’s and my last was when I was almost 40 and it was my easiest. My doctor told me I was healthier than many women half my age. I am not even close to menopause So, don’t fret too much ok? I am actually open to older men within reason. I remember walking past the Infertility clinic on the way to my OB appointments and seeing the looks on the couples facing while I was pregnant. My heart went out to them. I just wanted to take a second and tell you to have hope. For some reason you sound like you would be a good dad to either biological or step or both.

I think when we're gussying ourselves up, it's typically not so much a matter of sexual attractiveness as it is simple aesthetics. They do say that women dress for other women,

I know that's what people say. I've never quote bought it. I don't recall feeling like I needed to impress other women with how I looked as an adult. I certainly remember that in middle school with the designer jeans and such. That was a status thing (that my family didn't have enough money for me to fit in), not an attractiveness thing.

I can understand putting on a little lipstick because you like the way it looks. I occasionally put on mascara to make my eyes pop a little more. I still wear high heels when I dress up. I question it every time. Those freakin' things hurt! But, I do it every year. Maybe if I were taller than 5'1", I'd still feel dressed up in flats. We all take those shoes off halfway through the night anyway. I do those things because I feel more attractive when I do.

I can't see any other reason for a push up bra other than to draw sexual attention to your breasts. I'm not going around looking at other women wondering why they aren't wearing a push up bra. That is almost certainly not to impress my heterosexual ass. Of course, that doesn't mean the woman wearing a push up bra is cruising for sex. She probably just wants to look good, like you said. I used to wear push up bras when I felt insecure about the size of my breasts. I was also in my prime sexual and reproductive phase.

However, I think it might be interesting to examine why we women would think that looks good. Why do we think we look good when we have on makeup and push up bras and high heels? The flip side of that is that we don't look good au naturale. Why not?

There's nothing wrong with wanting to look as attractive as possible. Wearing a little lipstick or mascara isn't going to change one's appearance enough to be fake. Wearing tons of makeup every day, like it takes 2 hours to put your face on and you can't leave the house until it's done, dying your greys so people don't know you have them, or wearing a bra that adds a cup size or more is not real. It's whatever. It doesn't really matter. It's what people do.

Chamomile,

A backhoe is a nice accessory to Mr Shotgun

Alright, so I've read all the replies, and I gotta say, I feel like I was being steered towards an answer or being used to try to prove a point, and I didn't like it. Now I'm at my computer, and I'm not typing on a tiny goddamn phone screen, so I'll be able to formulate my thoughts better.

No, i wouldn't be completely thrilled about my 20 year old daughter dating a 50 year old man. He's older than me, even in the 4 years it would take for my oldest daughter to turn 20; I'd only be 39. Having a son in law older than me would just be weird.

I would be concerned that she would end up stuck caring for him in his older years, if their relationship lasted that long. Women are already defaulted and shoehorned into the caretaker role, and if they had kids together, then she would be caring for an aging husband as well as their children.

Yes, she would be more likely to be financially taken care of, but older men (specifically the aging Gen X and the younger Boomers) tend to have a disconnect emotionally and ideologically from the Millennial generation (mine) and the Gen Z (hers). I would worry about the conflicts between values.

HOWEVER.

If she is happy and the relationship is consentual and they are both faithful and content, then who the hell am I to object? I would be happier that she was happy than I would be worried about the difficulties. As a father, I will ALWAYS worry about the wellbeing of my girls, no matter the circumstances.

Me disapproving of her choice in partner over something like age or an attraction I don't understand would be like me disapproving of homosexual relationships because I'm not attracted to men, or men who like heavier women (BBWs) because I am not attracted to heavy women. Not my place to judge. I don't get it, I don't get the appeal, but it's still not my place.

I, personally, get along better with women who are just ever so slightly older than me; the youngest of the Gen X. I am an older Millennial (Jan '85), but I share a lot of GenX values and ethics that i don't see in the younger Millennials.

Yeah, a 25 year old hottie with perky hardware and a submissive/pliable mindset sounds really fun, but yaknow what? I'm setting up my first date as a single adult with a woman five years my senior. She has four kids and owns her own legal services business. She's been divorced for 8 years. She knows what she wants in life, she is confident in her needs and intelligent in her communication, she has her own house and income and she is her own woman.

I like that. It's worth more to me than a big chest, skinny waist, and giggly brain. She's taller than my physical ideal, a little heavier, and slightly more plain, but her personality is super cute nonetheless and she -knows who she is-.

I have, in my early 20s, been attracted to women in their 40s and 50s. Were they as OMG super-hot bangin' as some of the 20-25 year olds that were my peers? No, they weren't.

Well, some of them were, not gonna lie...

Again, they seemed powerful, driven, and confident, and I found that appealing. They knew what they wanted, and when they looked at me and sized me up, I could feel them regarding me, and I was flattered. Most of the women in my age group were hesitant or dismissive, like "he's not a backstreet boy/N*Synch clone, he's not a frosted tip boyband member, I can do better." I am heavyset and muscular, with broad features that are seldom seen as attractive in a conventional sense. i am by no means ugly, but I am plain. I have plenty of other skills to make me attractive or interesting, but at first glance, I'm nothing special.

These older women, these cougars, seemed to look past that. I've been told that my strong arms and shoulders are attractive, and always by older women. They listen to me and give me a chance to show my other skills and knowledges, and they appreciate them, rather than brushing them aside because I'm not wearing designer clothes.

Now, I've never gone after any of those women; I was married, after all, and I'm not a cheating piece of shit. But the age difference, just in and of itself, doesn't freak me out. It's the ramifications therein. If I had gotten with an older woman, having kids would have been harder to do, as well as harder on her body and with a higher chance of Down's Syndrome, IIRC.

But I'm done having kids now, and an older woman who has her shit figured out, well, that sounds nice. So does a 23 year old 115lb supermodel with thighs that could crush a watermelon and abs I could do laundry on, but one must be realistic.

[This message edited by Incarnate at 12:35 AM, February 4th (Tuesday)]

I lived in Texas for 6 years. There were plenty of young women clinging to geriatric men, and calling them “Daddy”. It creeped me out.

My son is 23. Two years ago, I was hit on by a 21 year old. I was out having dinner with a colleague. My colleague thought it was cute, but I was repulsed. I immediately thought “eww! My son is 21!”

Hell to the No

Yikes, 20 yrs. I don’t get the daddy thing at all. I’ve literally never felt compelled to utter that even when I was with someone much older. Wth. I would vomit if my partner called me mommy. Maybe women are more likely to see significantly younger folks with “mom goggles” than men do with “dad goggles” - that might be why we see it as creepy in some circumstances. Not all women or men but the general trend commented on (like my H and I for instance - 20 somethings are beautiful babies to us ). Side unrelated note - it was also super weird to have my male coworkers call me mommy and mama when I was pregnant. I never could figure that out, people I barely spoke to...suddenly calling me that.

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 7:22 AM, February 4th (Tuesday)]

Incarnate, I think you might actually be a Xenial. New term I learned the other day. And, hey, now! "Aging Gen Xers." I'm insulted.

If I remember the formula correctly, I could date someone as young as 30. Idk. My oldest son will be 29 this year. That just seems weird. However, if I were single, I might try it. What the heck? 🤷‍♀️

CT, I enjoy talking to 20-something. I found with my oldest that he started being pleasant and fun to be around again when he was 17. My 2nd was a beast for a while. But now at 16, he's pretty cool again. They both still make me SMH, but we have some really deep, meaningful conversations.

After my MIL died, my FIL married a woman who is only 3 or 4 years older than me and my H. I think FIL is around 25 years older than her. That is kind of weird. It's especially weird that my kids call her Memere.

When I was a sweet young thing and older men hit on me, I was appallled and really upset.

I am a mother of three young women. When they were teens and older men, guys stared at them, hit on them, it also pissed me off.

My middle daughter is very petite and never looked old enough to catch the eyes of older men, yet they did.

She was 12 years old and working with me ...she had braces on her teeth, barely had breasts and an older guy stared her down as he walked down the sidewalk...with his wife and kids in tow

One of my daughter's childhood friends had an affair with a superior in her internship workplace

It ended his 2nd marriage and they ended up getting married ( his 3rd marriage ) Her childhood friends call him Captain Viagra ...he looks like a guy stuck in the 80's with the hair parted in the middle , feathery cut...

She has always had daddy issues . Did he have money ? Probably not as much once he is done doling out child support for his 2 kids from wife #2.

I think for her, she was attracted to his power and she never had a relationship with her father..that and she has a history of using people to get to where she needed to go and this guy got her through PA school , gave her the family she never had

Whoami - that is so sad all around about the friend. And I can empathize about how it is to have men look at your kids- I had older men stare me down and come at me when I was literally prepubescent. Disgusting. Now that I have a daughter I will worry about that.

I was disgusted when my friend’s dad used to barely hide his obvious crush on me in MIDDLE school. Creeped me the f out and I stopped hanging out at her house. And I have a friend whose childhood friends dad asked her out when she reached adulthood. She was gobsmacked and felt violated as she thought he was part of her family but he just saw her as a sex object.

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 7:40 AM, February 4th (Tuesday)]

Sorry Dee,

I know you said you went with a young guy, following DD. I honestly dont put your situation or any betrayed (men too) in some box. Cheaters destroy your self esteem...for over a year, I thought about revenge, etc. I think we all do. It's a reflex reaction, with different intent. I kissed some young guy, as he came up and asked me to...that was right after. DD... he was good looking, I was just too broken to feel anything at all. Having a son the same age, didnt help any. LOL

It's just a real mind fuck, when you witness your husband go out and pay for it, when you're offered it for free. He didnt think I was good enough, but the punk kid does. How does this even work?

Anyway, always respect you opinion.

Oh no, you're fine. And that wasn't my madhatter situation. The young guy fling happened a couple of months after I left my XWH.

But yeah, isn't it seriously weird to be the one who didn't cheat and had opportunities galore while your spouse's dumbass PAID women to have sex with them?

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 8:57 AM, February 4th (Tuesday)]

Jesusismyanchor,

Boy, that double standard tells me the guy is a creep. And hitting on a married woman tells me he's a creep, too.

*****

I respond internally to attractive women I see when I'm out. I think most straight or bi- men do. I think the vast majority of us look but don't touch.

Some days, I wish I could say to a woman I see, 'You look so great! Seeing you has picked up my day.' I keep it to myself, though. I don't do it, because I believe the woman would mistrust my motives. In fact, I'd mistrust my motives.

*****

GoldenR touched on something....

I think age may bring something out that looks good on people but is indescribable. Wisdom? Experience? Emotional maturity? IDK what it is, but I think it's there, and I think it may be what keeps some of us in long term Ms.

*****

I have a vague memory of reading of a study of college class. At the beginning of the semester, students were asked to rate their classmates' desirability. They were also asked to do it late in the semester, after working together on projects during the class.

The researchers reported the first ratings seemed to be based on looks. In the 2nd ratings, some of the less desirable people in the first ratings moved way up in desirability. The researchers hypothesized that personality counts in the long term, perhaps more than looks.

I love how the post asks for men's opinions. Then 3 pages of 2 guys only responding later.

Anyways. I am late 30s.

Why do women of all ages like Magic Mike? He is incredibly young in that.

So, liking younger women. Women tend to be more sexually adventurous in their youth. As they get older there is more baggage and more expectations.

Younger women would have less issues and more willing to do fun things that only the male in the relationship would want.

Older women would put up with less than a younger woman.

Just why my buddy married a women 16 years younger than him.

Well I don't think you have it right about the adventurous part at all but not putting up with crap...true.

Sisoon, he wasn't hitting on a married woman ( I didn't think) but this is definitely not the first time I have heard a man vocalize that double standard. My soon to be ex had an A with a younger woman but when my friend was dating a younger man he was shocked. He asked why a guy would want to date her since she is older? You should have seen the look on my face and there were some words that followed.

The formula is sad. That would mean that I would date a man in his upper 20's. No, if we all had that formula how would that work exactly? A man who would want to date me would be 73 and I would want to date someone 28? Say what? Men don't like the inverse of that one!!!!!!!

My friend reminded me that men love beauty and confidence plus a good personality. If you have that you tend to get hit on by all ages as they are attracted to that and appreciate it. Maybe that does answer some of my questions and I have heard some men express that on this thread too.

And I must also join that sad club of being hit on and even violated by much older men when I was very young, a minor. Those are definite creeps for sure and I worry about it with a teenage daughter. We talk about it. But then again, those are called sexual offenders.

Outside of my “step” brother, I don’t know of anyone in a committed relationship with an age gap over 6 years. In my experience, the sort of thing being discussed here is quite rare, yet it’s being projected like it’s the norm.

Once again I'm "outside the norm." I've only had 1 committed relationship with someone inside a 6 year age difference from me - either 6+ years younger (my WH) or 6+ years older (my previous LTR before him). I just don't think it's about age for me and the older we get, the less it matters.

That being said, I think the original question was directed at the older - younger for "looks" dynamic that seems to be much more (but not entirely) a male thing. I agree. I accept that whatever partner I had will also get old - whether or not they are younger or older than me....eventually we will all be old and wrinkly. I never dated who I dated with some sort of idea about how they will age - I accepted that. I'm having a much harder time accepting that I am getting old than any partner I may have.

The fact is for me, my WH is roughly 10 years younger and I am in far better shape. I'm not overweight, my hair isn't greying, and I'm not wrinkly beyond my years (I've been told I'm less so - but who knows). My WH is greying in his beard pretty seriously, and although he is fair, you can see the grey in his hair as well, his hair is starting to recede and he is doing everything he can to control it aside from surgical options but it's a losing battle. He's gotten a bit overweight - not much - but definitely not thin (he says he needs to lose 20lbs - I say to be the same size as when we met it would be closer to 30lbs)...but I never cared about that. Had he turned out to be the man I thought he was, I would have never left him - looks are good for meeting people because they are superficial - after that...well, what's on the inside is WAY more important for anything long term.

Granted, I am a woman, so maybe I'm less shallow than some men? IDK...

those are called sexual offenders.

Yep, I was targeted by adult men when I was a minor, too. Thankfully, none of them were fathers of my friends. That shit is scary!

My teenage son was talking to me about his girl friends telling him about how often they are ogled and hit on by adult men. My son was shocked. He was also disgusted and angry. These are 15 to 17 year old girls and middle aged+ men are hitting on them in public.

I had a young man asked me put at the Walmart a few months ago. He wasn't unattractive. I was weirded out. I'm pretty sure he was younger than my oldest son.

Do you think some women date older so they can always be that 'younger woman" like they feel secure in that?

Yeah the older men hitting on teenagers is about as gross as it gets. This happened to my daughter at our waterpark over the summer. The man is lucky I couldn't find him after my daughter told me I had some choice words for him

Do you think some women date older so they can always be that 'younger woman" like they feel secure in that?

Yes. Many times - this was definitely me. I was so insecure.

That said I think there are real deal relationships but yeah it happens super often as you are describing. I even heard my friends boyfriend advising her older brother to seek out insecure chicks. It is a strategy for some.

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 5:16 PM, February 4th (Tuesday)]