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Red Delicious all the way!!!!!

Better yet...toffee apple (at that point does the apple really matter hahaha)

I'm fine with whatever people do. I've been called a cradle robber because I'm 9 years older than wh. I have dated older and younger. My ex fiance was ten years older than me. Wh and I just clicked. Age just wasnt a factor at all.

His ow 1 was his age.

Ow2 was older than me.

3 and 4 somewhere in the middle I think.

My cousin married the woman of his dreams and I'm sure she was 20+ years older than him. But he was happier than anyone I have ever known.

This much I know to be a fact: The Gala apple is the best apple known to man.

Loukas, something we agree on!

I keep forgetting to say that I got that formula wrong. It's half my age plus 7? Then that means I can date someone as young as 32, 18 years younger than me. The age gap widens the older you get. I can see how that would make sense to a certain degree. Eventually, it gets to be too much, imo.

So, a 30yo probably wouldn't have much luck in at with a 20yo, but a 40yo might do alright with a 30yo. I agree with steady that once you get into your much older years, the larger age gap gets tricky again.

I remember reading someone (journalist) asked Jack Nicholson why actors seemed to prefer younger women. I will paraphrase, but quite accurately in spirit, his answer: "I think it's all about the flesh".

Seemed honest to me.

Honeycrisp and Ambrosia.

And my oldest daughter will be 40 this year.

Yeah...I see what you mean steady. I’d be unhappy if my dad dated a friend or peer my age. I don’t have issues with age differences (barring weird and abusive power dynamics) per se UNLESS they are your kids ages. I just think that is weird and potentially harmful (power dynamic is a step parent who is your peer) to the older person’s relationship w their kids depending). I’m not the relationship police, consenting adults etc etc and so forth that is what it is. I just think it is odd. Maybe other people are more mature better than me!

It's not a simple preference. Finding a woman significantly more attractive just because she's young, even though you're older, is weird.

When that woman is young enough to be your daughter, that's creepy. Check youtube for age gap couples and tell me that looks normal to you.

Valuing women your OWN age (who probably look better than you do) is wrong and when you mix that with looking down on these women for aging, that is potentially misogynistic. Not ALL men blah blah blah we know.

If your 18 year old daughter dated a man in his 40s, you would not be pleased, you would KNOW he doesn't want her for her mind. You would know it's not appropriate. What if the man was your age or older, think about how disgusting that is.

It is mainly men that do this, women don't and they don't put men down for aging. Sorry not sorry. It's the truth. Whether you're a feminist or not, and I'm not.

power dynamic is a step parent who is your peer

I don't see a power dynamic. As adults, none of us has power over the other. My dad does not now have power over me. He's my dad and I love him, but he doesn't get to tell me what to do anymore. I also believe that a parent shouldn't have that kind of power over her child of any age unless it's a safety issue.

My FIL's W who is only 3 or 4 years older than me does not have any power over me. Neither does my FIL. I don't consider her my stepmom-in-law. If my dad married someone my age, I wouldn't consider her my stepmom. If she tried to pull that power shit on me, I'd put her in her place fast.

Coco I relate to my family totally different from you. I am from a close knit community of a unique cultural background I won’t identify here - and our parents have a huge impact and involvement in our lives forever. Even though I am sadly not physically near them due to jobs/spouse/geography (and the point about stepmom is hypothetical for me as my dad is deceased now) we still have that dynamic. It’s just different. It can be annoying but beautiful too, I don’t think it is bad or they shouldn’t have a say over my life. I’ve been told we need better boundaries by mainstream peers but I don’t know - I value my pesky, nosy, loving village. They made me and continue to support me and I want to know and value their input, what they think. Still, I am the ultimate decider of that stuff but I want them in my life and I need their input and support. Maybe I’d feel differently at fifty yo than I do in my mid thirties but I would not take kindly to a peer in that same parental role. We’re just very different in what we expect from parents I suspect.

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 8:22 AM, February 6th (Thursday)]

It is mainly men that do this, women don't and they don't put men down for aging. Sorry not sorry. It's the truth. Whether you're a feminist or not, and I'm not.

It's biology. Younger women are more fertile, and our biology wants us to reproduce. It's really that simple. And this could easily be flipped around to cast a negative light on women. A lot of women are attracted to (and some date) "dangerous men". Men who are criminals, violent, in jail, etc. Good idea? Nope, not at all. But, this is also biology, men who are violent are "good protectors" to our primitive brain.

I don't think it's just primitive brain, I think doing better said more bluntly what I was thinking:

They are malleable. They are more willing to do whatever the guy wants. I think the same goes in reverse, as I said I have a girlfriend who is married to a man 10 years her junior, and I think she likes him for the same reason a man who goes for younger women does.

Even my husband, who is 10 years older than me...he was a year out from a divorce when we got together. He just wanted to have fun, he wanted easy, he wanted lots of sex and all the best parts of companionship. It just happened that we evolved past that stage, and I think that can happen too. But, for sure, he was looking to have a good time he'd been "missing".

Again, that's not a statement about us older women. A man worth his salt can appreciate the richness of who we have become and embrace us as his equal partner...unless he's the peter pan type. I just think some older men have been there, done that, gotten the tshirt and are no longer really looking for a partner, or even someone to have kids with. They are looking for more pure companionship without a lot of compromise. Younger women do that. (and honestly, I said my friend did this in reverse - but I think she is at the same point for the most part. She absolutely likes he is malleable and does anything she wants).

Many of these romances whither after a time because the other partner comes into their own, it works less if the other person is less dependent. I read a lot about it when we were deciding to get married. I feel like we just were one of those couples who got through that aspect of it. But, on the other hand, it might have been my sense to stay malleable if I wanted to keep him. I have contemplated how that also might have factored into my conflict avoidance/inauthenticity. And, again it's not as if our age gap is so unsurmountable these days. But, when we got together I was 22 and he was 32 which was a lot bigger at that time.

It is mainly men that do this, women don't and they don't put men down for aging. Sorry not sorry. It's the truth. Whether you're a feminist or not, and I'm not.

I must respectfully disagree. Women in this very thread prove this statement wrong. The sample size is, admittedly, nowhere near large enough to draw a societal conclusion, but the men here do not disparage women for aging, while more than a few women have referred to aging men as disgusting/gross/unattractive.

It's definitely not broken up by gender line as cleanly as one seems to think.

My mother is dating someone 15 years her junior and my best friend is primarily attracted to older women, go figure. Maybe they're not the norm, but there are certainly people in this world who buck the trend. I only have one friend who almost exclusively dates women significantly younger than him (about 10 years), but in his case, the maturity levels are largely the same.

I must respectfully disagree. Women in this very thread prove this statement wrong. The sample size is, admittedly, nowhere near large enough to draw a societal conclusion, but the men here do not disparage women for aging, while more than a few women have referred to aging men as disgusting/gross/unattractive.

It's definitely not broken up by gender line as cleanly as one seems to think.

I think this is a tough sample to base anything on. A lot of us had husbands in their middle age who cheated on us with women in their 20s and all kinds of feelings about that are bound to leak out in this discussion. I admit that I got something out of imagining the idiot I married not being found genuinely attractive by the young hotties he paid to have sex with him. My XWH was a good-looking guy. I find men in my age-range quite attractive. I just wouldn't have when I was 20 and I think that's fairly normal. My XWH was not physically disgusting or unattractive. I don't see older men as physically disgusting or unattractive. I can only assume that my XWH had some judgments on my middle-aged attractiveness given what he was chasing, though. Yes, these women were categorically more attractive than I am. In my 20s I could have given some of them a run for their money, but those days are gone. It is what it is.

A lot of us had husbands in their middle age who cheated on us with women in their 20s and all kinds of feelings about that are bound to leak out in this discussion.

Yes, I will admit to being very triggered by this, as my xwh at 37 was banging an 18 year old that looked considerably younger. For him, I'm sorry, that is disturbing to me. For her? I WAS an 18 year old girl and never would have DREAMED of going after a man twice my age, much less a married man twice my age. I am not a parent, but if I had an 18 year old daughter that brought home an almost 40 year old boyfriend? Yeah, I'd be saying something. Color me an interfering old busybody, but I was an 18 yo girl, and I can tell you that the late 30's-early 40's guys that came on to me weren't looking for a long term relationship.

I don't think aging bodies are gross in any regard whatsoever. By the same metric as my xwh, would I date a 60 year old? No and I don't care what he looks like. I am in a completely different head and life space than someone that much older than me. Or going the other way - would I date someone in their early 20's? HELL no. Not cus they are babies or anything, but because I am not in a 20s mindset anymore (thank goodness). I am every bit a 38 year old and I am damn proud of that and like that I am. I don't have a whole lot in common with a 22 year old at this point in my life.

Before I get torched by the peanut gallery - I am speaking for myself only.

A man worth his salt can appreciate the richness of who we have become and embrace us as his equal partner...unless he's the peter pan type. I just think some older men have been there, done that, gotten the tshirt and are no longer really looking for a partner, or even someone to have kids with. They are looking for more pure companionship without a lot of compromise.

I think this is definitely a motivation that hits older divorced guys. Lord knows I've had the thought at points to just "see what's out there" with reckless abandon, although now I'm open to whatever type of relationship I find myself in when I get motivated enough to get off my ass and complicate my life and stop floating in space without a guide. Honestly, I'm sure many of the points above could apply (there could be a beneficial power dynamic, malleability, an older guy "feels like he deserves better", etc.), but at the end of the day, I believe that a lot of it boils down to a few things.

First, all of the evolutionary biology stuff that RIO drops is very much at work. Personally, I don't think it completely overrides cultural and familial forces, but it's certainly an important factor to consider. And it's not just the carnal desire for a young body, but also the desire to be surrounded by youth to in turn feel younger. Some people meet this need with grandkids, who make them feel younger when they're around. Some people have younger friend groups so they can feel invigorated by youthful energy. I'm not saying this is the way to go, but it's certainly common.

Second, divorce really takes the wind out of your sails. Remember when you thought you'd be with that person forever? Yeah, not gonna happen, friend. It turns out all that was just a big show and finding someone who takes it as seriously as you, over the long haul at least, isn't going to be so easy. If you adopt a defeatist attitude, then of course you'd stop taking it seriously, too, and "just have fun". Who likes to "just have fun" more than younger people? Older people don't have time for that shit because they have real problems like calling their kids' teachers and managing their mortgage rates and choosing the right health care plan.

Third, younger women will put up with more of your shit. Maybe they're feeling that ticking clock and really want kids (I've known women who put up with a monumental amount of bullshit for this very reason) and so they're less inclined to next your ass. Maybe they're charmed by your "worldliness" or whatever and think your whole spiel is enriching to them. Whatever's at play, a guy might be able to get away with more selfish behavior. There's a plethora of people out there who are only calcifying as they age, becoming "set in their ways", and the subset of people who aren't fans of this version of you but will roll with the punches anyway diminishes in time. Relationships are the Great Compromise. Either you're one of the naive lucky ones who thinks it's all about "finding your right person" (lucky you, out of 3.5 billion partners, you happened to have found your Only One, tell us your damn secret already! THE PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW!), or you've been through the ringer and realize it's about compromise and sacrifice. It seems like the older we get, the less we're open to said compromise and sacrifice, so maybe it's easier to just find a bigger pushover.

These are just guesses, don't take any of it seriously.

Before I get torched by the peanut gallery - I am speaking for myself only.

Ellie, that is exactly how your post read - speaking for yourself. That always makes the biggest difference here. I didn’t read anything in your post that made a sweeping generalization. You spoke to your experience.

And I think this is where I lean more heavily towards the Millennial side than the GenX side (as has been mentioned, I'm closer to the Xennial micro-generation, while technically being a Millennial, and I DO find some pretty solid cultural significance in the generational breakdown). I can identify and converse and jive with the younger folks, the 20-somethings. I get along with 20-25 year olds just fine, and I relate to them on a level where I am talking to equals.

Yeah, I've done more - I've done a LOT more - but that applies to almost every single person I meet, younger OR older. Not many people have the extent of life experience that I have. I've had to learn to accept that with any personal associations I make. I can see having a fulfilling reciprocal relationship with a 25 year old or a 45 year old, or older or younger. Obviously there's a lower limit, but once you get to know people, even young people, there really is a wealth of personality and experience that you don't have within them. You can learn something from almost everyone. I honestly feel that when you start applying sweeping dismissals to entire subgroups, you're doing them and yourself a huge disservice.

To be clear, I'm not saying anyone -here- specifically is doing that, but I have seen it done and some of the sentiments I've read remind me of that.

@EllieKMAS

I agree with Loukas, your post did not feel like you were speaking for anyone other than yourself. You're good. :)

Now, as for the aging men not being attractive thing... I have known more than a few younger women in my life that were incredibly attracted to men who were older than they were. Maybe drawing examples from movie stars is a not very relevant, but take Jack Nicholson or Sean Connery into account. Even George Clooney; all of these men are getting older. Clooney is 58, Nicholson is 82, and Connery is 89. Objectively, these men are older and they have a certain sophisticated attractiveness to them.

The same stands for women. Elizabeth Hurley is 54. Jennifer Lopez is 50. Shakira is 43. Meryls Streep is 70. All of these women are elegant, attractive, and sexy in their own right. I don't think it's a Mommy Issues thing, I think these women are legitimately attractive, just like the men listed earlier are legitimately attractive despite (or perhaps partially because of?) their age.

Also, the most important point to make here is that Fuji Apples are better than any of the others EXCEPT maybe Honeycrisp. Don't even bring those chalky-ass Macintosh apples into the mix.

story on foxnews "Larry King"

worth a short bit of a read If you're curious

not much other than "just grew apart"

An unattractive man to me is a man of any age that comes off as only wanting to get into my pants. Ugh.

Dick pics...automatically equals creep/gross.

Being hit on at the bar after work by guys, old or young was annoying especially after having to tell them more than once I wasnt interested. I didn't go there looking for dates. I wanted quiet time before getting picked up to go home and I knew the people who worked there who were nice enough to step in if any guy hassled me. And just so no one thinks I was bad for being in a bar, I also would hang out at the local mandarin restaurant with friends cause they always had the seafood shipped in live and I got to play with crabs hahaha.

Now that I'm an "older woman" I've been hit on by younger guys but also older ones. Most of the time its just pleasantries. I dont wear my wedding ring anymore so they dont know I'm married. Having to explain I am married and I just need to get my ring resized is annoying...but also true so...

I also can get along with anyone of any age. One of our couple friends are very much younger than us but we all hang out when we can. I also joined a tai chi group and was the only person under 60 lol.

Being in the reptile community theres all age grades.

Edited to fix word

[This message edited by DragnHeart at 2:06 PM, February 6th (Thursday)]