SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

She has not posted on the forum since she got upset with people posting on my thread who were recommending D. Not sure why she has not gotten back to posting and asking for help. I think she may still read on the forum. I know she PM's at least one person here but I don't know how frequent that is. She has a journal that she wrote the timeline and other things to me in, but she hasn't written in it for some time. She also has a lot of books and as far as I know hasn't been reading them.

She says she still wants to R.

See a disconnect between the first quote and this one above?

We also go to MC which has been good. I have managed to keep that focused on the causes and effects of the affair.

Good that you are keeping the discussion focused, but what M do you have? She has not sorted out herself yet, so you do not really have a functional M to work on.

I get that it would seem she could / should be doing more.

As I have posted many a time, a truly remorseful WS would be chasing and doing all they can to win back the Prize (BS). The very fact that you can recognise that she should/could be doing more, shows that she is not committing herself fully to R. Does she feel that she could/should be ding more?

My advice is for you to put away the Hopium pipe. Do not rely on it to help you get out of Infidelity. It never helps, but will hinder your journey.

I am so close to retiring to the country out of state. Doesn't happen if this doesn't work.

I wonder if this isn't your biggest impediment.

Rocket,

I hear what you are saying, I feel she should be doing more, I want her to pursue me like she did when she first saw me. It's not happening.

I have no idea what my journey will show me, either way I am good.

Steady,

I don't think so. I was screwed by my first wife and started over. I was screwed by my second wife and may have to start over. Yeah it may be a set back but I can do it all over again even if I don't want to. Maybe part of the equation, I don't know

I get the feeling that she is just waiting for me to get over it and we can be what we were. Sad, not what I want

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 12:47 AM, September 9th (Wednesday)]

I feel she should be doing more,

& you are right, she should be doing more.

I want her to pursue me like she did when she first saw me. It's not happening.

So, what does this tell you?

I have no idea what my journey will show me, either way I am good.

Acceptance is a double edged sword, in that it can help you heal or damage you further.

Positive side:

- You accept tht you cannot change your WS.

- You accept that your KISA/fixer thinking is not contributing to your own healing.

- You accept that you will need to look inwards and heal yourself first.

Negative side:

- You accept that you cannot fix your WS, and as such, accept that you will 'live with it'.

- You accept that she does not need to fight for the R (lets not say M at the moment, as you do not have a functioning M).

Basically, don't fall in to a rut. I do worry for you, as you seem to be spiralling into depression.

If your WW truly wants to be with you, she would be fighting tooth and nail. Proving that she is safe for you with consistent actions.

I apologise for being blunt, but from the looks of it, she seems to be giving up pretty fast. She is not consistent with what she said she would do, nor is she consistent with the effort put into helping you heal. She is still neck-deep in wayward thinking.

From what you have posted, it looks like she has given up on the M already, but you are still trying to do CPR on it, and she is just pretending to assist you because she 'wants to let you down softly' that she is already checked-out. Alternatively, she does not want to admit to herself that she has already left the M, hence the inconsistent actions.

Rocket,

I hear what you are saying. What is hard is I love her. She can not accept what she has done. She tries to help me but doesn't try to help herself, so I am left with trying to do it myself

She tries to help me but doesn't try to help herself, so I am left with trying to do it myself

Things may have changed at home, but not long ago you posted that she discouraged you from coming here, because of all the divorce comments. Is she now open to you being here? Encouraging it?

My wife, no matter what state our marriage is in, encouraged me to come here, especially in my early days, because I needed some sort of support system. It wasn't up to her to decided WHICH support networks I could use, nor was it her business to go through my postings(personally, I didn't care if she did or didn't; I was going to do it anyway) and give her take on it.

She knew I was seeking help, and was glad I was getting it. I hope your wife has evolved to this state of mind, but by the occasional postings, I don't know if this is the case.

Is she truly trying to help you?

achilles1101

I get the feeling that she is just waiting for me to get over it and we can be what we were.

Can I assume, by you stating I get the feeling, that she has not actually said this to you. Is that correct?

Should she actually say this to you, your response might be, I will never go back to what we were because while I was doing alright you were lying to me and having an affair with your COW.

Sad, not what I want

She did what she wanted and now it is time for you to do what you want to.

You had no say as to whether she had an affair because she didn't tell you.

Tell her what you are going to do and give here the courtesy of deciding whether she is going to come along with you or if she is going to be left behind.

What is hard is I love her.

Love what exactly? Seriously think deeply about that question.

I often read about people torturing themselves and many times I ask myself why are they torturing themselves? What REALISTICALLY will they achieve given the history of their partner and relationship.

You love an illusion. Maybe you lust after a reality, but you love an illusion.

Gently, one way of looking at infidelity is that communications between the couple have broken down. The ability to read and send non-verbals has been lost.

That means explicit communication is absolutely necessary if you have any realistic hope for rebuilding the relationship.

You MUST ask for what you want. You MUST get explicit answers.

If you 'get' or 'have a feeling,' you need to check it out.

Without explicit asks and answers, you'll continue to live in the dumps, not on any edge.

jb,

no things have not changed at home. I got a text from her this morning saying I had created a "stir" on the forum. She is so concerned that if I post when I am angry, frustrated or sad I will get responses to divorce her. She is also concerned I get everything exactly correct, heaven forbid I get the context correct but make a factual error.

She really is trying to help me. She has been a huge help to me following my surgery. Taking over all of my chores and "gently" reminding me to take it easy. She is better at taking care of me than taking care of herself. I wish she would do more of that.

Fooled,

She has not told me that directly but wrote that in a post on her thread, amongst other things. hence my feelings.

Blah,

Love what? The woman I gave my heart and soul to. I know that is not cart blanche for her to do anything she wants but it causes me to think.

Sisoon,

I get I love the fantasy that was my marriage, there is no lust. I have started being more communicative, I just hate to have to tell her what to do.

I got a text from her this morning saying I had created a "stir" on the forum. She is so concerned that if I post when I am angry, frustrated or sad I will get responses to divorce her. She is also concerned I get everything exactly correct, heaven forbid I get the context correct but make a factual error.

A stir?? You got FOUR responses to your recent post.

Sounds like she is trying to control everything. From you, to the kind of support you get. She clearly watches your thread like a hawk,but doesn't have the courage to start her own post.

You can post what you want. If its how you feel,post it. Her facts, and your facts will differ. You both have different perspectives.

I just hate to have to tell her what to do.

At this point, you shouldn't have to. Since she reads the forums, she knows what she should be doing. She's not,unless you say something. Eventually, you will get tired of having to do all the heavy lifting. Until then, she is content with her role in all of this.

[This message edited by HellFire at 7:07 PM, September 23rd (Wednesday)]

You don’t want to tell her what to do, but she’s policing your posts on SI? That’s rich.

I think much of your pain and frustration is because you’re trying to resolve so much cognitive dissonance. She wants to reconcile... except she won’t post, won’t do any reading, and won’t post SI.

What is hard is I love her

Here’s something that may trigger your wife who apparently reads everything posted here:

1. Adultery is emotional and mental abuse

2. Adultery is also physical abuse (it involves putting a faithful partner at risk for life threatening and life changing disease— and even when disease hasn’t been transmitted the genital micro biome has been permanently altered)

3. In almost every other case of abuse toward a spouse (usually a woman) divorce is recommended

Often abused women will say they love their husbands and this is likely true. Yet it’s also true that a physically abused woman shouldn’t remain married to a husband (even if she loves him) when he punches her in the face.

The love for the abusive spouse and the need for divorce are always kept separate in discussions, and yet it’s only in the case of the particular form of abuse called adultery that we seem to get confused on this point. This is similar, by the way, to the very real need to keep discussions of forgiveness separate from whether to D or R. Forgiveness is for you first and foremost and can as easily be accomplished in the midst and after D (and some would argue more quickly) as during R.

Same kind of thing involving whether you love your adulterous spouse. Of course you do. Most faithful spouses love unfaithful spouses. That’s why they are faithful and it’s part and parcel (practically speaking) to being a betrayed spouse.

But loving an unfaithful spouse is almost immaterial to the discussion.

Why so?

Imagine a website called “Surviving Rageaholics” or “Surviving Attempted Murder” or “Surviving Intentional Thievery of Your Home” or “Surviving Being Punched in the Face by Your Husband”

Reconciliation after a woman was punched in the face by an abusive husband would only be recommended with extreme, extreme caution. And I would warrant most therapists would be very hesitant to recommend it, wouldn’t you?

Therapists would say something like “I understand you love your husband and that’s good because it means you are an empathetic person, but the love you feel for him is one thing and his abusive nature and the domestic violence he subjected you to is another thing. Let’s not get them confused.”

And even then they would put major caveats around a possible reconciliation attempt — like “if your abusive husband is visiting the ‘Surviving Being Punched in the Face’ website and policing your threads and trying to control you on that, it doesn’t look like he is remorseful or really trying to work on his abusive tendencies. It may be you need to separate and get yourself to safety.”

Now that’s what would happen, isn’t it?

Would a therapist say “oh but he only punched you in the face once” or “oh but he punched you in the face when you yelled at him” or “oh but he punched you in the face when you were asleep and you only realized it weeks later when he told you about it” or “oh he punched you in the face repeatedly for FOUR YEARS but he seems so contrite now”?

What would the recommendations be for a spouse on such a website? What do you think most people on such a site would be recommending to a woman whose husband had deliberately punched her in the face?

Adultery is the equivalent of rape, taking away a faithful spouse’s autonomy and agency over their own body.

It is at the very least as bad as punching a spouse in the face, and actually a lot worse. I’m sure we can all agree on that.

Draw your own conclusions from this very logical pathway I’ve laid out.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:31 PM, September 23rd (Wednesday)]

Strength brother

You are taking advice and looking after yourself.

Has been he communication between the two of you improved to the level as to get across what you feel she needs to be doing?

One day at a time

It's not a matter of telling her what to do.

And it's not a matter of her knowing what to do.

Your W can't read your mind. For R to work, you need to ask for what you want, and she has to do what you ask most of the time of her own free will. If she says 'No' too often, you're just not a good fit for a long term partnership.

She has to ask you for what she wants, too.

I get that you want R.

My counsel, and the counsel of almost everyone here is:

Stop aiming for R.

Start aiming for the best outcome you can get.

Adding to what Thumos sad because it is spot on:

I got a text from her this morning saying I had created a "stir" on the forum. She is so concerned that if I post when I am angry, frustrated or sad I will get responses to divorce her. She is also concerned I get everything exactly correct, heaven forbid I get the context correct but make a factual error.

This is controlling. This is abusive.

SI is a support form and a safe place for BSes. She doesn't have a right to tell you what to post here. It's on par with telling you what you can and can't say to a therapist in order to make your marriage and her behavior look better than it is. ONLY abusive and manipulative spouses play this game. This is not typical WS stuff. This is highly alarming and you need to proceed with extreme caution.

Could you imagine if you punched her in the face and in MC, you tell her she can't give a factual account of you punching her? Telling her you can only say you slapped her or love tapped her or slipped and hit her by accident but never the truth? I'd imagine you'd be up in arms if you heard about your sister, a friend, or someone else close to you in this situation with a man who tried to control the narrative of their mistreatment like that. It's no longer less abusive and controlling just because the person doing it is your WW.

If your WW is so worried about what's being said here, she can post about it in the Wayward form and get advice from other waywards who have a BS who posts. I have a feeling she won't though because they will call her out on it and they will not agree that she has any right to ask you to post or not post whatever you want in YOUR safe space and on YOUR support thread.

One more thing - if your WW is worried that a true account of her behavior will lead to posters telling you to D her, it's because she KNOWS what she is doing is wrong and worthy of divorce. It's telling that her response isn't to reflect on her actions and work harder to become someone who is worthy of R. It's to attack and control YOU instead to preserve her image with us - a group of internet strangers with little to no bearing on her life. I'm sorry that she thinks so little of your healing and well being that she's choosing to damage you over what a bunch of strangers might think over the internet.

[This message edited by nekonamida at 4:09 PM, September 24th (Thursday)]

Could you imagine if you punched her in the face and in MC, you tell her she can't give a factual account of you punching her? Telling her you can only say you slapped her or love tapped her or slipped and hit her by accident but never the truth? I'd imagine you'd be up in arms if you heard about your sister, a friend, or someone else close to you in this situation with a man who tried to control the narrative of their mistreatment like that. It's no longer less abusive and controlling just because the person doing it is your WW.

So insightful neko. Hope he’s paying attention.

She cannot accept what she has done? What does that mean? I get you would not describe her behavior as a typical affair. Certainly not a love affair. The way I understand it she was ... don’t know what. Sex slave? Assuming she is now being truthful and all she did was give oral sex on command her self esteem was and is as low as whale dung.

So she better start snapping out of the I can’t accept it mode if there is going to be any healing at all. Especially for you.

I cannot imagine the hell you are in. It would be like finding out the woman you idealized had a second career as a nude dancer she or whatever you call the people on the net live porn sites. But she loves you right?

She is really in need of intense reflection and serious mental health treatment. If she can’t get to the fact that she has hit rock bottom, then all you are doing is lighting a slow fuse that ends with bitter destructive reactions.

And I don’t see how she can rationally expect you to just get past this. How do you do that?

Do you really, really see any way out of this?

I am still here, still posting for advice, not as often as I was but still here. I will seek help anywhere I feel I need to. I am severely disappointed in her response to my posting and hope she can see it is for me, not her.

I wish she would get back on her thread but I don't think that will happen. She doesn't like to face criticism from me or the forum. That is to bad as there is a lot to learn. I have learned a lot and I am a slow learner.

I remain hopeful that she realizes she has hit bottom and does the things necessary to claw her way back up. If it happens, it happens. If not, I will have to deal with that as well.

I guess I never thought of infidelity as abuse. I thought it was a flaw in the unfaithful.

I think my wife can not take the criticism because she has not yet come to grips with what she did and what she had become.

The comments on what she had become stung a little, I guess you never want to believe your wife could sink so low to put herself at someone else's whim. To serve as their pleasure giver, no matter what she thought she was getting out of it. That hurts.

Is there a way out of this? I am not even sure what that means. It would be easy to cut bait and run. That's not exactly true with kids at home and what not. So I stay for now and wait for progress.