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Hmmm ... let's try it this way:

Love is chemistry, thought, and emotion of one person.

Marriage is chemistry, thought, emotion, and action of 2 people acting in concert.

Love means M only if the partners are together. If one partner isn't on board the M, it may be - or probably is? - best for the other partner to end the M, in spite of the love that partner feels for the other.

Oh Joanna, you aren't an idiot at all. You loved and trusted him because you are a loving, trustworthy human. There is not a damn thing wrong with being that!

It's so hard to shift gears mentally and stop feeling the same way after doing it for so long. That doesn't make you pathetic or idiotic.

OwningItNow,

When you brought up the co-dependence thing in my OG post I was sooo offended. Maybe it's time to swallow my pride and do some reading. Thanks for the book suggestions. I'll start checking them out.

DevastatedDee,

I was blown away by how a man can cry and weep and beg me to stay and then not follow through.

Yeah, I'm still not sure wtf this is about.

On Dday 2, he cried and begged me not to leave him. And then, two weeks later, he was telling his friend how much he missed OW and how good it felt to have someone "love him for who he is." He also told another friend, "Well, if it's over, we had a good run."

Then, of course, 8 months later, he's meeting her behind my back again and lying about it.

I *think* he's starting to put in the work now. I won't hold my breath though.

sisoon,

Love means M only if the partners are together. If one partner isn't on board the M, it may be - or probably is? - best for the other partner to end the M, in spite of the love that partner feels for the other.

That of course makes sense. And it's why this is his last chance.

EllieKMAS,

Thank you <3

On Dday 2, he cried and begged me not to leave him. And then, two weeks later, he was telling his friend how much he missed OW and how good it felt to have someone "love him for who he is." He also told another friend, "Well, if it's over, we had a good run."

I think they are wildly inconsistent like this because their emotions are shallow and shift rapidly. They mean what they say when they say it, but they might feel differently two hours from now. It's why I never put any stock in what my ex tells me now. Sometimes he follows through but I can't count on it.

Yeah, I'm still not sure wtf this is about.

On Dday 2, he cried and begged me not to leave him. And then, two weeks later, he was telling his friend how much he missed OW and how good it felt to have someone "love him for who he is." He also told another friend, "Well, if it's over, we had a good run."

The only conclusions I could come to were either that all that crying was fake or that he was actually crying because by leaving I was going to be mean to him and disrupt his life. I had to drop any idea that those tears had anything to do with me.

I think Jana’s explanation fits our situation. I think he did feel desperate to keep me at that point. He also thought he was in love with OW though and that he finally found his “true happiness” or some other BS. I think a lot of that shit in the beginning was pure limerence.

It’s the broken NC 8 months into supposed reconciliation that kills me and that I can’t get past. As much as I want us to be able to move past it, I’m not sure I ever will. He had told me he didn’t even think of her at that point, other than her involvement in ruining our marriage. I just don’t understand.

What is he doing to fix this, Joanna? Is he willing to do IC? MC? A lie detector if you should ever want one? Write out a timeline with every detail? Tell people what he has done? Hand you all electronics with complete transparency? Give up freedoms that he had before? Comfort you whenever you trigger? Set aside time daily to answer any question you may have? Read? Converse?

I am not saying you ARE codependent and I mean no offense to anyone when I say it. But there is a thread in the Healing Library called "Codependency in the Marriage: a BS's common mistakes" because so many of us (so, so many of us!) have codependent behaviors that prioritize keeping our partner over standing up for ourselves. Read the Healing Library article. It's good. We can all benefit from the ideas in the books I gave you, not necessarily because we feel we need to wear the label of codependency but because they are good reminders about healthy boundaries and personal value.

The "please don't leave me!" but continued cheating comes from CLASSIC lack of empathy and cake eating. The cheater DOES want you--and their APs. It makes the WS very sad and frustrated that you cannot see how much they want you both.

It’s the broken NC 8 months into supposed reconciliation that kills me and that I can’t get past. As much as I want us to be able to move past it, I’m not sure I ever will. He had told me he didn’t even think of her at that point, other than her involvement in ruining our marriage. I just don’t understand.

I can completely understand this. Every time I found broken NC I would die inside a little more and detach and love him less. The continued lying and inconsistent behavior does infinite damage to the M. When my False R hit I shut down completely. I wanted to leave and D but I had just lost my job at that time and WS had a cancer scare, but was later removed. Bit by bit I pulled myself back up but my feelings for WS never came back. In fact I had lost all respect and he was tired of me bringing it up again not realizing he set my healing back to 0. He didn't care. He wanted me to do as i always did and suck it up and continue on. Just leave it in the past as he would say

We have not been able to R. He thinks he has put in work, rearranged his life for me and claims I have been "beating him down with the A all these years" not to mention he's just so non empathetic that alone causes me so much pain. It's taken 5 years after False R for me to get here, but I realize that if I want to be healthy and happy I need to leave. Leave for myself and for my kids.

OwningItNow,

What is he doing to fix this, Joanna? Is he willing to do IC? MC? A lie detector if you should ever want one? Write out a timeline with every detail? Tell people what he has done? Hand you all electronics with complete transparency? Give up freedoms that he had before? Comfort you whenever you trigger? Set aside time daily to answer any question you may have? Read? Converse?

Yes, he’s in IC now and willing to do MC. I’m not ready for MC yet though. Our last MC was a moron. And we’re scheduling a polygraph once I get back into town, and he’s paying for it by selling some of his music gear. He hasn’t told many people but was ok with me telling my family.

I demanded transparency after he broke NC, and his initial reaction wasn’t great. He accused me of being vindictive but later walked it back and told me I could have full access. But I haven’t worked up the courage to ask again. Maybe I’m afraid what I’ll find. I don’t know.

He does comfort me when I’m sad and tries to choke down my anger with as much grace as he can. He’s willing to answer my questions and has started remembering finally (eye roll). He’s willing to talk about it and tries not to get defensive (and is sometimes successful).

He’s read everything I’ve asked and yesterday started reading things for himself.

Some of this has been because I demanded it and some has been on his own. For a long time he was doing the bare minimum to stay in the relationship. But I told him I was done after he broke NC (which of course I walked back the next day because I’m weak AF), and since then, he’s started stepping up more.

I think I have some codependent tendencies and that those books could help. Thanks for suggesting them!

The "please don't leave me!" but continued cheating comes from CLASSIC lack of empathy and cake eating. The cheater DOES want you--and their APs. It makes the WS very sad and frustrated that you cannot see how much they want you both.

You’re right. He hasn’t shown much of any empathy for me throughout this entire situation. I’m hoping IC will help. And yeah, he thought he was polyamorous, so that was the perfect excuse for loving us both.

Although, he didn’t love me. He thought he did and says he did, but he was so cold and distant that he would barely talk to me while it was happening. That hurt just as much as anything else.

crazyblindsided,

I’m sorry to hear about your situation. I can’t imagine trying to do this for 4 more years only for it to end because he still isn’t remorseful and doesn’t get it. I’m so sorry!

[This message edited by Joanna1013 at 2:02 PM, July 21st (Tuesday)]

Look, Joanna. Your situation seems to have some hope, and you are NOT weak AF. You're not! It's scary and hard. My WH did not get it over night either. If your WH is showing some ability to work and keep trying, then he is open to change. He's probably always been the selfish one, but you didn't mind. I didn't mind either, until I did. I was done putting my H's needs first. And it has made our marriage ten times better!!!

I do believe in your situation, the stronger you get, the more he will step up. You are doing great. This is hard, hard, hard. But it's worth it. I would not want to live through the pain again, but I also would not want the M I had before everything blew up. The M I have now is something I am very proud of, but it only happened because I started valuing me. My H saw that if he wanted to keep me, he would need to show that he valued me, too.

You are doing great. Let yourself be sad when needed. Pamper yourself. Bubble baths and chick flicks and staying in your pajamas all day. But also exercise, make time for friends, set goals for your own life, journal, do yoga or meditate, and give yourself lots of compliments in your head.

You will be ok, even better than ok.

I just know it.

OwningItNow,

Thank you for the encouraging words and all of the great advice! I do have some hope that we’ll make it through, but I am going to try to focus on myself and my own healing. You’re right, I never minded putting him first throughout our entire relationship. I need to look out for myself and thats ok.

Again, thank you! I so appreciate your wisdom and encouragement.

Joanna, I just wanted to share a little blurb of thought with you.

I know for me, those first few months were so hard and I wanted more than anything to save my marriage. I totally get that thought/desire.

But for me - where my healing really started was when divorce stopped being such a scary word. Divorce is not the end of the world. It's a huge change and it is scary, but it's imminently surviveable.

I think that part of focusing on MY healing was embracing the knowledge that as I healed and grew and changed, it was possible that I would heal and grow and change to a point where staying with my H wasn't going to work. Especially if he wasn't putting in equal effort.

I hope for you that R works, but really try not to shy away from the thought of D too. It helps to mentally allow yourself to explore all of your options.

where my healing really started was when divorce stopped being such a scary word.

Which to me is another way of saying you have to let go of the outcome.

I thought it was up to me to "get over it" too. I'm finally starting to get it through my thick skull that it's not up to me to get over it. It's up to him to be a safe partner.

Now you are starting to see what we are saying here. Amen!!!

I love the adage "it's not your fault, but it is your responsibility"

I reference a YouTube video by Will Smith (the actor) frequently here on SI. It really had a positive impact on me and I don’t know how I stumbled upon it BUT it was impactful. I was still struggling 3 years into R even though my H was doing everything possible to help me.

It showed me that my H cannot fix everything - I needed to do my part to heal myself.

I hope this helps you. I urge you to watch it.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 3:41 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]

Then, of course, 8 months later, he's meeting her behind my back again and lying about it.

Sorry to say this but welcome to false reconciliation. A place no one wants to be. Mine was 4 months long. During false Reconciliation was our 25th wedding anniversary which he planned a very romantic get away for us.

Yet he was still cheating.

Two months later when I had to call the OW to find out about their on-going Affair and she was the reason he demanded a D I finally had enough.

I finally stood up to him and told him I was divorcing him. It was a 2 minute statement of facts and I did not give him an opportunity to say anything. I just left he room when I was done. He had ended the affair a few hours before I called the OW and told me he no longer wanted a D and wanted to be married blah blah blah.

It no longer mattered b/c I was done. He had to work very very hard against all odds to get me to reconsider. I didn’t help him. I didn’t provide any support or guidance. I was doing the hard 180 for months. I was polite in front of the children. Did Not speak to him if they weren’t around.

I was still executing a plan B and demanded a post nup to even consider reconciliation. All my assets were excluded as marital assets in case of a D.

Point is the only thing you can count on is YOU.

The broken no contact after 8 months is disturbing. What were the circumstances? Did he accidentally run into her? Did she call him? Did he contact her first? Those details can be important to understand him better. But if he’s truly committed to R and committing to the marriage then time will tell.

He just needs to be honest with himself and you. No matter what.

We survived and are happily reconciled. The odds were against us. But it can happen.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 4:12 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]

The1stWife,

I’ll check out that YouTube video. Thanks for the suggestion.

I’m sorry you had to go through that with false reconciliation as well. But it sounds like you woke him up and it cleared the fog quickly. I wish I had done that in the beginning. And it’s good to hear that it worked out for you despite the odds.

As far as their little meetup goes, she called him and told him she needed to talk to him and that she had a letter to give me.

He not only answered the phone but met up with her. I was out of town (visiting my sister who is going through chemo btw). He didn’t tell me about it until a few days later because he “didn’t want to upset me for the drive home” and because of my sister’s cancer and because it was my birthday the next day.

OBS supposedly knew and was Ok with their meetup. I was the only one that didn’t get a “vote.”

He told me he doesn’t know why he went and that he knew he fucked up the second he saw her. He also said he was never planning on keeping it a secret but didn’t want to make everything harder or ruin my birthday.

The shitty thing is that not two weeks before that happened, I told him I thought she’d reach out. He said he wouldn’t talk to her and that there was nothing to say.

It’s something I don’t know if I’ll ever understand. I don’t want it to be the straw that broke the camel’s back, but it might have been. He knew it would hurt me yet again, and he did it anyway.

Somehow, he still doesn’t get it.

He’s done a lot since then to try to prove he wants this and wants to make it right. I just don’t know if I can ever get past that.

I want to clarify a minor point. My H had ended his Affair a few hours before I called the OW late at night. He had demanded a D out of the blue earlier that day but never said it was b/c he chose the OW. A few hours later he came and said he didn’t want a D. I left the house for a few hours, came home and called the OW and found out everything.

She was Hoping I would kick him out and he would go running to her. I did tell him to leave but he Never went to be with her. In fact he refused to leave. She probably thinks I held him back. I actually held the door open for him more than once. He always backed down and never left or decided he didn’t want a D.

She did email him 30 days later. He immediately showed me the email and was shaking like a leaf thinking I was going to think he had something to do with it. He never responded. She finally got the hint.

Point is HE ended the Affair. My standing up to him that night was to let him know I am done putting up with his crap, living in limbo, making me doubt myself and living with 1 foot out the door for 6 months. I showed him I’m no longer a doormat. For him or anyone. But my standing up to him was not going to end his affair or contact with the OW. He has to make that decision on his own.

Why your H responded to her baffles me!!!

I’m not buying her H knew - there is more to that IF that is true.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 10:23 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]

Yeah, I understand what you’re saying. My husband never chose to end it. OBS told OW to end it after he discovered her journal. I struggle with the question of whether or not he ever would have, or if we all would have just continued living a lie and trying to be friends with the woman my husband was supposedly in love with.

I very much doubt it would have stayed an emotional affair only had that not happened.

I think OBS knew about the meetup. He screwed up even worse than I did with the pick-me dance and has obviously tried to rugsweep this.

I feel like it’s common for some men not to think emotional affairs are as bad as most women think they are, and I can’t help but feel she got away with it without having to face any real consequences.

A few days after dday, I reached out to OBS to ask if it got physical and go find out what was in her journal. He said something along the lines of, “We went through hell but things are finally starting to get better. I don’t want to delve back into it. Ask you husband if you have questions.”

So yeah. He didn’t think to reach out to me and was kind of an ass when I asked for more details. I was also doing some pain shopping on her instagram and noticed that he bought her flowers a week after dday.

So yeah, I think there’s a good chance he knew about the meeting and OK-ed it.

Duplicate

[This message edited by Joanna1013 at 11:03 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]