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It seems like I’ve been in this state of mind for months now. Never so sure of my feelings that I am able to act on them one way or the other.

I know I can’t stay in this ambivilant phase forever. I want to make a decision but the hamster wheel in the back of my mind is continually turning morning noon and night. In, out, in, out, shake it all about.

I worry that I’m just one of those guys, one of those guys who can never get past the lies, the betrayal, that I will always remember what she is capable of when things aren’t going her way. but I don’t want to be that guy, I’m trying my hardest not to be.

I feel like I am continually on the verge of making a monumental decision, one which is only eclipse by the decision my GF of 24 years, the mother of my children, my best friend for more than half my life made just over 1 year ago. To step outside of our relationship and validate herself at the cost of everything. But somehow my decision feels worse, mine is forever not just a few stolen moments of ego boost and I’m just not ready to make such a life changing decision.

There is a Nicolas Cage film I saw many years ago. In that film Nick Cage was able to see into the future 6 seconds. He could run all the scenarios of what would happen in 6 seconds time based on the choices he made now. I want that, I want to be able to see 6 years into the future so I know I am making the right decision now.

At the moment I feel like I want to try both, to start a new life, stop putting my current life on hold and set WGF free from the guilt she feels each and every time she looks at me. She can have a new happy life without a partner who reminds her of who she was, who she is, who she doesn’t want to be. But she says she wants me, only me.

I also want to stay, to fight the good fight, to be a happy family, to watch my kids grow up in front of me not from a distance, to continue to enjoy the good things that have come from all of this, despite all of this. The deeper connection, the date nights, the togetherness we have now which is better than we ever had before even though the bar was already very high.

But I’m doing neither, or both, one foot in each camp.

We are good together, better than good and we are continually told as much by all those who are oblivious to what is torturing us both. But I don’t know if the damage within can be fixed whilst we are together. We are like the superhero couple in the film Hitchcock, soul mates who are meant to be together but destroy each other in the process.

If you saw us together you would not know this, even with all your years of experience of reading people’s stories on SI, your red flag radar would not detect a thing. You would see a couple deeply in love, enjoying each other’s company, with happy children and everything they could ever wish for. You would probably comment on how good we are together. You would covet the connection we have. That’s what makes this all so damn hard

I think I might be that guy, that guy who will never get used to this. That guy who will continually be pulled from pillar to post. But I want to be the other guy, the guy that against all the odds succeeds in the face of adversity. The guy who finds PRIDE in his DECISION to swallow his PRIDE

But she might be that gal, that gal who is so ashamed of what she did that she can’t bring herself to dig deep and stare at herself in the mirror. The gal who cannot bring herself to accept that she OWNS this, she DID this. The master compartmentaliser who protects herself from her self by pretending it never happened. Hoping, praying it will just go away. Shes learnt her lesson and she’ll never cheat again why can’t he believe her.

It’s been one hell of a rollercoaster ride so far. There is love in our house, bags of it. There is also guilt and shame, and with it comes defensiveness and frustration. I miss the old times but I know they will never return, not like they were.

I do believe that SHE believes she will never cheat again but we have many more years in front of us, with many more stresses for life to throw at us. We are not getting younger and our bodies will start to fail us. Who’s to say that when the shit hits the fan again that temptation won’t rear its ugly head again.

So many thoughts keeping that hamster wheel turning.

SHIT happens but maybe just maybe i CAN make a chocolate cake out of this pile of SHIT !!!.

Thank you for listening.

2D

I worry that I’m just one of those guys, one of those guys who can never get past the lies, the betrayal, that I will always remember what she is capable of when things aren’t going her way. but I don’t want to be that guy, I’m trying my hardest not to be

Hi Two Dozen. First I think you are putting this on you. You are trying to force yourself to accept it. I don't think that's the path you want to be on. it's way too early for that anyway.

What is she doing to show that she is working on her coping? You say "what she is capable of when the going gets tough". What is she working on that will help her cope differently? Also, along that same vein, how is she going to manage her life differently that maybe some of the coping isn't even needed?

I know there are always external things that happen that we are forced to go through or cope with, but a lot of what we can't cope with is the things we construct ourselves.

Which leads me to doe she understand WHY she was so unhappy? Why she felt the need to cheat?

This, is something I think a lot of us fall into:

But she might be that gal, that gal who is so ashamed of what she did that she can’t bring herself to dig deep and stare at herself in the mirror. The gal who cannot bring herself to accept that she OWNS this, she DID this. The master compartmentaliser who protects herself from her self by pretending it never happened. Hoping, praying it will just go away. Shes learnt her lesson and she’ll never cheat again why can’t he believe her.

I don't know where you guys are on a timeline, but if the affair just ended in July (your join date) these are early times for you and for her. You are putting a lot of pressure on yourself, and I know that is unavoidable. I am in the midst of doing the same thing. But, I was in her shoes once too. The handwringing and shame is a normal stage, and for some of us, especially me, that stage can last for a while because we do not know how else we should be reacting. We only want you to know how sorry we are and we can only feel we are the people who ruined the whole world. It's absolutely paralyzing.

Is she in IC? That will help a great deal.

The other thing that helped me a great deal is when I got tired of my own bullshit and knew I couldn't stay where I was, I had to move forward and make the changes to be the person I wanted to be. It took a seed of hope that I deserved to be happy and to know what it felt like to be someone I could be proud of again.

This is all very raw for me again, watching my husband do it. I can understand from your viewpoint how you can feel sorry for her but also feel so much anger and disdain at times looking at who she is. That you are probably like me oscillating between feeling bad for her and feeling like you want to throw her out the window so you can have some peace. Her handwringing is triggering you because when someone does that they are still making it all about them and how they feel. She doesn't get that yet, and she probably doesn't have the capacity to make room for a lot of other stuff.

Her reckoning is a step that can't be skipped if she is going to get enough gumption to pick herself up off the ground. At the same time, this does not have to be something you stay around for either. I can identify a lot with you on how much you love her and why you would be hesitant to just end it. I think all of these things are very natural.

But, you have to stop putting pressure on yourself to do things. I know where the pressure comes from and that is this is a hellish nightmare that tortures you. Of course you want to get away from the torture. I have been reviewing the 180 over in the healing library and am thinking that detachment is the only way to get through this stage. That's hard too because I want his comfort as much as I am sure you want hers. But, I think you and I are in the same boat - no where really near ready to make a decision. And, I could be wrong and be misunderstanding you, but I felt your post with every fiber of my being this morning. I reread it twice, and I saw myself in it.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:34 AM, October 30th (Friday)]

I, too, wonder about your timeline, TwoDozen. When was d-day?

If it was 4 months ago, I think it's pretty normal and may be healthy to not know where you're going yet, especially if you want R. I say that because it can take a long time to evaluate a WS's candidacy for R. For example, my W's behavior changed on d-day. I thought she became 'remorseful.' (She immediately went NC, stopped lying and started answering questions, etc.)

In fact, she says it took her 5 months to accept that her relationship was just another A (she knew it was a sick relationship, but she viewed it from the POV of her intention, which was not to conduct an A). She says it took 5 months for her to begin to feel remorse.

As for your worry about being 'one of those guys,' I wonder if you're talking about 'acceptance' - accepting that you've been betrayed by a person you love. If so, there's a process that you must go through before you can integrate your WGF's A into your life story. The process isn't pretty, and it isn't quick. But nothing you write indicates you're not going through it in a normal way - that is, everything you write indicates you're going the the process, and you're on your way to healing.

It just takes a lot longer than anyone wants it to take.

Yeah, I think you are on the verge of making a monumental decision for your life, your WGF's,a and your children's. The thing is: it isn't forever. A decision to split is pretty final and forever, of course. A decision to R, however, only means you will start a process of (re)building your relationship. If your WGF doesn't do the work, or if you change your mind, you can stop R.

A decision to start R is definitely conditional. In a way, it's, say, a 7-15-30 day decision that one hopes to continually renew. My experience was that I eventually decided I was back in the M and no longer in R; that was 3.5-4 years out from d-day for me. The decision became 'permanent' - I stopped fearing my W will betray me again, I started to live my life again with her firmly in my present and my future, the A comes up for me only when I want to confirm a memory, I read SI without triggering on infidelity (though I surely trigger on over-generalizations).... But D is still available to us.

You seem to be in pretty good touch with reality. It just that reality for BSes in the first couple of years after d-day just plain sucks almost all the time.

BUT reality gradually gets better as you process your feelings and get some clarity on what you are going to do. You'll start feeling moments of joy that gradually expand to minutes. You get to see your WGF clearly and make choices that are good for you and your kids - and her, too.

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:14 AM, October 30th (Friday)]

The guy who finds PRIDE in his DECISION to swallow his PRIDE

I did feel this way, early on.

But as time went on, I really understood that I AM NOT my wife's shitty choices.

Nothing my wife did reflects on me at all in any way.

AP got nothing on me either. I was always the better man.

After that very normal comparison stuff was done, my pride wasn't dented a bit.

I kept my word. My honor is intact.

After my wife confessed, I insisted on changes and boundaries.

I decided I was just as awesome if I left the marriage or if I stayed.

Offering my wife grace, a chance to show me a better version of herself to me is a good thing.

I didn't owe her anything.

I chose only to accept the facts of what happened, I will NEVER be okay with what happened. There is no need for me to rubber stamp the trauma, I just have to heal from it.

My favorite line about deciding to give my relationship a last chance -- and I quoted it the other day in another thread -- from HT, essentially reminding us all; this is NOT a hostage situation. I get to choose my path every, single, day.

I'm not made less by offering grace any more than my brothers and sisters who didn't offer a final chance.

My pride is doing great. It's my wife's pride I was worried about, but she's made a very strong return. She's not defined by her worst choices any more than I am, even though her worst choices initially ripped my guts out.

I think our pride should only be dented if we ALLOW further abuse. The shit we didn't know about until after the fact, doesn't reflect on us -- we didn't do those things.

All we did was love the person we thought had our backs.

As long as they figured out how to protect themselves and us again, I'm all good with one, last, shot.

You be you TD. Stay or go, but don't live longer than you have to on that hamster wheel.

I worry that I’m just one of those guys, one of those guys who can never get past the lies, the betrayal, that I will always remember what she is capable of when things aren’t going her way. but I don’t want to be that guy, I’m trying my hardest not to be.

Maybe stop guilting yourself and burdening yourself this way?

Here's the thing: There's nothing wrong and everything right with being "one of those guys."

There's also nothing wrong with being someone who wants reconciliation.

Both are equally valid.

It's a little perverse to read someone torturing themselves with the idea that because they have inner integrity, a high capacity for faithfulness, and strong moral intuition that informs their response to morally transgressive behavior ... that there's something WRONG with you.

It's the very opposite, my friend!

By the way, I think I recently saw some stats that suggest drastically diminishing returns for most marriages several years out from infidelity.

In other words, it was something like 70 percent or marriages survive infidelity in the short term in the first year, and then it begins to drop off preciptously, with smaller and smaller percentages with each passing year. After 3 years, less than 50 percent. After 5, a third. After 10, close to 10 percent.

Drop, drop, drop.

Could this be because traumatized betrayed spouses begin to steadily think more clearly about their situation as time passes? Could it be because the same set of toxic neuroses that enabled an unfaithful spouse to commit abusive adulterous behavior are still inherent and integral to the worldview and continuing actions of the WS? Could it be that betrayed spouses years later really begin grappling with this and realizing they need a different life?

This is one reason why I liken adultery to dropping a radioactive dirty bomb. There's the initial explosion, and then there's the fissile material hanging around steadily poisoning everything.

So why should you feel guilty about being in the majority?

Did that small percentage of marriages still intact many years later somehow beat the odds, or is there something else going on?

We can't possibly know!

We have no idea if those people are miserable or tremendously happy. Some of them report "stronger and better" marriages, and we should celebrate that.

At the same time, it often seems if you ask for details on what this means, it's a laundry list of what any spouse should expect in ANY marriage, let alone one damaged by the toxicity of infidelity.

We also know we see men showing up here decades later who seem really horribly miserable and regretting they stayed. Seems to happen like clockwork about once a week, at least lately.

So food for thought.

[This message edited by Thumos at 1:49 PM, October 30th (Friday)]

TwoDozen,

Excellent post. I feel very much the same as you, also a year out from DDay. I understand the struggle and it's like being ripped in half from the inside by your heart and mind.

I do think you have some errors in your thinking. You are allowing her (or yourself?) to minimize the damage of "just a few stolen moments of ego boost". The betrayal is massive and permanent. A massive and permanent response IS NOT an overreaction or somehow unjustified. It is 100% OK to do that. What's more, you don't even have to be proportional or justified. The relationship is a matter of he heart. So try to just feel the full effect of the relationship, and make your decisions the best you can.

At the same time, it often seems if you ask for details on what this means, it's a laundry list of what any spouse should expect in ANY marriage, let alone one damaged by the toxicity of infidelity.

This puzzles me a little bit. I have always thought that IS what R looks like, and I thought of it in a positive way. At some point, after all the pain of R, that's what you are getting is a normal, good marriage. That the marriage is improved in nuance ways because you have healthier spouses. But, overall if you felt happy before in the marriage, I don't think you feel more happy.

Overall even with all the work that I had done what has changed with me is not spectacular. In fact, some of it might not even be better to a spouse. For example, being conflict avoidant. I am not so much that any more. Did that have a net gain on my husbands happiness? No. Without all the recent events though, it probably just contributed to the solidness of the overall marriage because I was speaking up. But, now he has to deal with more opinions and needs than before. Was that better for him? I don't know, he said he liked it but I doubt it was exactly sparking joy.

Having a better marriage doesn't mean more happiness if the marriage was good to begin with. If you had a poorer quality marriage, yeah, maybe the net happiness is more. However, I do think you get to move forward with new skills. You learn to communicate better, problem solve better, etc. Which I think makes some of the marriage easier. Not sure it's the kind of things you do cartwheels over though.

However, my vision for R didn't happen either so who knows if what I am saying is right? My vision was that we made it through something really hard together and had a deeper bond because of it.

Now that the shoe is on the other foot, I feel differently. I still feel maybe the bond can be deeper but it's going to take him being able to get in touch with his emotions and be authentic about them. Will I be happier when he can do that? No, maybe not. But, will he seem more reliable to me because of that? Yes. I imagine it will feel like he is showing up all the way. The way I was showing up all the way after my work.

I guess everyone has a different vision, but I wanted to comment on it because you said something the other day about wanting to feel pure joy in your relationship and that you felt it before. I get that, I do. But, generally speaking the day to day normalcy is the thing we all get to spend more time on, and in that way an R'd marriage to me wouldn't be much different than any other happy marriage. Just some food for thought.

Two Dozen, maybe this would be a good thing to maybe think about if you do decide to try for R. What would you want that to look like? Do you think that you could achieve that with her when you look at who she is and your marriage as a whole?

The advice you are getting shares the same sentiment overall. You are making it seem like there is something wrong with you, that the burden is on you to fix it, to be okay with it. I have been on both sides of the fence, and I have to say that what you really need is to see her picking up that burden. I told someone the other day that my experience so far after finding he'd been cheating is that there is far less for me to do at this stage than when we were at the beginning of recovery of my affair.

And, that's how it should be. Our job is to look after ourselves. If we want to keep our spouses around while they do their work and assess them later if we are willing to rebuild the relationship that makes it a bit harder because they keep us triggered with their bullshit. But, we are not here to manage their emotions or make them do things. If they want it they will do it. We can only say what it is we will tolerate or not tolerate and to know what we are going to do for ourselves when presented with something we will not tolerate.

When I remind myself of this, it takes a lot of the pressure off. It doesn't not alleviate the pain I feel, or that torturous amount of changing my mood and mind. But, when I remind myself that the onus is on him then I leave room to do what it is I really need. This week it was to rest a lot and apparently inhale all the junk food I could get my hands on. Now, I am going to need a new plan for next week or I will be miserable with myself ;-)

One advantage I think I have in this that you can gain too is maybe plan for what D looks like to you. We'd done that already after my affair, and I would think about it more from time to time knowing the rates of the drop off were always there. I'd always hoped we would be ones that made it, but I would do gut checks on myself to be prepared if it went the other way. Knowing as much as you can about the unknown puts you in a place that at least logically you can see that you can do this if you need to.

Being less dependent on what the other person does at least from the logistical aspects is helpful. What it doesn't solve is the love, the pain, or the grief. That I can't tell you what to do with, but no matter what you decide none of that is going to go away soon anyway.

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:03 PM, October 30th (Friday)]

If your wife is the top ten percent of all cheaters then you have actually made a sane and rational choice to try and keep her in your life . Of course you also have to be in the top 10 percent of forgivers .

You do sound forgiving . If you truly have an exceptional spouse they have probably done everything they can to make amends and as the years go by you should feel increasingly sure that your relationship was worth believing in because post fact she should overwhelmingly do many things right

The problem is when the marriage or spouse ISNT particularly great and the BS pretends otherwise ; thats just setting yourself up for a lifetime of regret .

To some extent its natural for everyone to regret the road not taken - but that road cant ever be judged fairly . You only know what you have , thats the only tangible truth - only you know if the road you took led you to an acceptable level or happiness or not

[This message edited by siracha at 6:42 PM, October 30th (Friday)]

But as time went on, I really understood that I AM NOT my wife's shitty choices.

Nothing my wife did reflects on me at all in any way.

I spent many decades as a pessimist. I've been an optimist for the last 25 years. Since making the switch I find myself reframing my self talk.

I experienced innumerable self-talk battles inside my head beginning on d-day. I beat myself up with the best of us, but I always heard positive self-talk as well. It didn't take long for me to realize and start telling myself exactly what Oldwounds wrote: my W cheated - I didn't - I did nothing to deserve betrayal - it's on her.

Pride was never an issue for me. A shrink named Karen Horney wrote prolifically about the problem pride, and she saw it as a big problem. I read her 50 years ago, though, and I've forgotten her arguments, but I don't give a damn for pride.

A big issue for me was, 'Could I stay with my W and respect myself?' The answer was, 'Well, yes. She cheated; I didn't. If she meets my requirements for R, I can stay without damaging my self respect.' That's a lot easier said than done, but it wasn't that hard....

A lot of conventional wisdom tells the BS to 'Dump the cheater.' A lot of conventional wisdom says, 'Forgive.' Since a BS can't win approval from everybody anyway, BSes might as well go for what they want.

This puzzles me a little bit. I have always thought that IS what R looks like, and I thought of it in a positive way.

Does it though? Because we've talked about it before and I thought you essentially agreed.

Look, I think if all you are getting out of reconciliation is a marriage that should have existed in the first place, that doesn't seem like a great deal to me. But that's just me.

But, overall if you felt happy before in the marriage, I don't think you feel more happy.

Correct. See, I was happy before. Quite content. Now my WW admits she was too - or should have been. She's been going through a period of mourning our previous marriage and basically has totally changed her tune on all the rewriting the history of the marriage crap.

But now I'm in a pickle because there's always a shadow over us now, and it makes me less happy than before. I don't think I should settle for less happy and a constant hovering shadow, and I for sure don't think I should with someone that is obviously still lying to me.

I guess everyone has a different vision, but I wanted to comment on it because you said something the other day about wanting to feel pure joy in your relationship and that you felt it before. I get that, I do. But, generally speaking the day to day normalcy is the thing we all get to spend more time on, and in that way an R'd marriage to me wouldn't be much different than any other happy marriage. Just some food for thought.

To be clear, I never expected my marriage to provide me with moments of crystalline joy where I felt like a star had penetrated my being and suffused it with light in a burst of cosmic rapture. But I did feel real moments of joy, along with lots of steady happiness, insofar as we are finite beings with limited life spans.

I wouldn't expect that to happen on a daily basis. Or weekly. Monthly. Etc. But I do set the bar high that if I'm not getting any of that now (and I'm not) and can't see it happening any time soon, what's the payoff here?

It would seem like you're then caught in the spiral of the law of diminishing marginal returns -- in which a continuing upward ramp of exponential investment (in this case time and energy) results in smaller and smaller return on that investment.

[This message edited by Thumos at 5:24 PM, October 30th (Friday)]

A lot of conventional wisdom tells the BS to 'Dump the cheater.' A lot of conventional wisdom says, 'Forgive.' Since a BS can't win approval from everybody anyway, BSes might as well go for what they want.

Good stuff, Sisoon. Sometimes the Zen approach wears on me, but sometimes you nail it.

If I see where Thumos is headed, I see something similar.

When a WS gets it and starts doing basic husbanding/wifing 101 and adulting 101, that's not the end of reconciling.

That is basic, middle ground, C average stuff. No applause, no standing ovations, no regaling them as a unicorn. It's just basic, minimum level requirements.

To commit to a long-term relationship with a WW, I need to see some A-game wifing. The average I'm looking for isn't 100%, valedictorian wifing all the time.

But how about some A-plus efforts along with solid B work, with a B+ average.

After burning down the school, and after pitching in to rebuild it, I'm not keen on hitching myself to a C student.

The abuse of infidelity was exceptional in its destruction. I want to see some exceptional work toward recovery and every day living.

I am really talking about being reconciled.

A ws does have to put in their A game I believe to get you to that point, but at some point it’s more you are now back in a regular marriage. Generally speaking whether that marriage is way better would depend on what it was like before.

From my perspective I always went above and beyond, and we had an exceptional marriage. We hit a two year period when we were working around the clock to get his business off the ground. Between that and some major life changes we went off the rails quite a lot.

R to me probably looked more like our marriage for but enhanced in some very specific ways. I think some of those ways made me happier in the marriage but probably was not as beneficial to him because they were things like boundaries, speaking up, etc. but the overall picture was we were communicating better, having more sex, spending more quality time, etc.

If you had a worse marriage maybe you want to change your deal more.

Now that the show is on the other foot, all I want is him to decide what is truly authentically what he wants, to be able to be more reliable with understanding himself, less holding back his thoughts and feelings. But for some period of course I want for him to woo me, because I badly need to understand he really does want me and our marriage because I don’t believe that right now.

Overall, to me R is the relationship found balance again. Equal partners, both people wooing, both people giving, But our marriage was that at one time. So I want that, just with a healthier partner and of course as a healthier partner. If the expectation is that one of us has to bring more of their A game than the other for the rest of our lives, that is simply not sustainable.

But to me that might be the same as saying “I want a marriage the way it should have been”. So my response to thumos comes from a place of what is wrong with a marriage if it’s the way it should have been all along? I think that’s harder to achieve and more rare than people sometimes think. It can be magical when both people are all in, but believing that after infidelity is a giant feat. I tend to think of you make that feat it would not be as hard to believe that you do have something special to go through all that shit and come out the other side.

If h and I can recover and reconcile from this I am not sure if I would ever question it again. But as other have pointed out that will be a very rare find too. Not so much just because he cheated but because there is still so much not healed from my cheating on top of that. This just added a lot more complexity.

It's probably going to be a different balance for you than me.

Mine cheated within weeks of dating and added 6 more As thru year 8 of marriage. I got the story 4.5 years ago after 21 years of lies. Add to that I have not cheated. So no mad hattery

Wifing 101 won't cut it for me.

A ws does have to put in their A game I believe to get you to that point, but at some point it’s more you are now back in a regular marriage.

Yeah I don’t think I’ve had that “A game” the past four years and really a regular marriage with her would not cut it for me, at least for a long time. I would need to see some next level wifing. DARVO’ing me about her polygraph, having a complete meltdown, failing it, then offering to do it again, then retracting that offer, then acting confused about why I was having chest pains ... well, that is waaaaay off from even routine, blah, comfortable marriage.

At this point any woman who smiles, has intact body parts, and doesn’t act like a psycho is going to be a step up.

[This message edited by Thumos at 8:59 PM, October 30th (Friday)]

Wow thankyou all for all the responses. It really is very much appreciated. I am reading them all and will come back to reply to the questions etc

I read and write on SI for me and lately my posts and questions have been more about me (it’s all me me me these days) as fundamentally I’ve gotten to the point wherein I’ve realised that I will never understand what she did and I am not able to control what she does going forwards. I can observe and process, and decide if that’s enough for me.

But I realise you need context so in a nutshell BBF45(me) WGF45 Kidsx3 3 month EA/PA with AP32 ended on discovery it took me 6 weeks to prove it was happening All the while losing my mind and losing weight. And she denied it many times even when I had conclusive proof. Dday was Dec 2019. Initial reaction from WGF was almost as if I had no right to snoop and I was ruining her life. The fog (if that’s a thing) lasted about 6 weeks. During that time I was enemy number 1. Since then it’s been steadily upwards and now I am the best thing since sliced bread.

I write for me, something my IC told me to do. It started with journaling and has recently moved to long form journals and occasionally drifts into poetry (I’ll save you from having to read that garbage :) they take the form of letters to WGF which she never receives or posts like this one which I occasionally decide to share.

I’ll be back to answer the questions as soon as I can get some time to myself.

Thanks again all for your responses.

I’m still trying to understand the GF for 24 years.

Did she not want marriage? Why not?

...one foot in each camp.

I've been telling this to SI members for years, because I wholeheartedly believe this to be true.

Climb up onto that proverbial fence and sit there as long as you want or need to. Get nice and comfortable up on that fence. Until you've got a clearer picture of which pasture is greener, it's unwise, I think, to make any life-altering decisions.

In the meantime, brother, focus on you, your recovery and healing. Step-back and detach from your WGF, watch and observe what she does with the opportunity you've offered to her. Actions over words, you know?

I know it's hard to slow down that hamster wheel. I wish I could tell you how to stop it, but I can't. All I can tell you is that eventually I got so exhausted by it that I stepped off and tried to remember that no matter how hard I ran, no matter how hard I tried, the hamster wheel was still anchored to it's frame and I haven't travelled very far at all.

(Infidelity is crazy-making shit.)

Maybe your WGF has what it takes to reconcile with you. The only way you'll ever find out is by sticking around long enough to find out.

Do you think she's truly capable and willing to go the distance, to have the fortitude and courage to own and fix her shit? Or, do you think she'd just rather sweep this all under the rug and just move on?

Do you feel lonely within your M?

My mom always told me it's better to be alone than married and lonely. There's no doubt that she's a wise woman.

Thankyou to all for the replies.

@HikingOut thankyou for all your feedback and advice. I’ve mentioned it before but I always take a lot of insight and knowledge from what you write. I’m so sorry you find yourself in the situation you find yourself in, if I’m being completely honest I think I would be in a much better situation if my WGF was doing the work you are doing.

Yes I do think I am putting this on me. Not blaming myself for the A exactly but yes I’m telling myself that I have to get over this because she’s all I ever wanted.

Her why’s are simply that she was unhappy. That’s as far as she has dug but ultimately even though I did not know it at the time I can see the signs now, building up over many years. Resentment built up on very small things (I mean really small things) that she never mentioned upset her, followed by aging, feeling old, losing her job then getting far too drunk in the company of someone who was not only a predator but that she’d already unbeknown to me crossed many boundaries with ie talking about our relationship (for years) sharing concerns with him that she hadn’t shared with me and sending each other post gym pics so they could boost each other’s moral etc. It was a car crash in slow motion. The initial guilt was soon replaced by rewriting our relationship and not helped by living her entire life with her mum saying “I should’ve left your dad when I had the chance” and projecting that onto herself. Coupled with her inherent belief that she is the strong one in her FOO and will not be weak like her mum or sister.

What is she doing, well quite frankly she is love bombing the shit out of me and wishing it hadn’t happened because “that’s not who she is”.

I’ve looked at the 180 a hundred times and the 180 appears to be what I am being accuse of pre A - ie apparently I was already emotionally absent. I see it different and that may actually have been the complete opposite but I can say for absolute certainty if I had implemented 180 on Dday (I didn’t know what it was at the time) I would be single now - no questions. Maybe that would’ve been for the best but I can’t turn back the clock.

@Sisoon thanks for all your advice and guidance. I am so grateful that someone with your experience hangs around here to help us newly betrayed navigate the turmoil. In our situation the “fog” lifted (hers not mine) not on Dday but around 6 weeks post Dday and it’s been steadily upwards but not ticking the SI standard list of R qualities yet.

@oldwounds thanks for the words of encouragement they really helped.

@Thumos thanks for the reply. I read a lot of what you write and I see a lot of me in your writings. I too am a detail guy, I’m a statistician, an engineer a physicist by both trade and aptitude. I do a lot of reading and I’ve seen the evidence for truly R,d marriages and the numbers don’t look encouraging. I can fully understand why you took the decision you have taken and honestly I feel like it could be the right one for me too. I may be coming to terms with this, until I capitulate she has that time to change my direction.

@thisisfine hey buddy, thanks for your support. I see we’re on similar timelines and in similar situations. We are both going through the “is this enough for me” phase as I think neither of us has a partner who has really taken control of the R bus and we’ve been driving the bus unsupported for a year now. I’m certainly due a pit stop and change of driver soon (or a different bus)

@Siracha thanks for your post. Is she in the top 10%, not sure how I would ever know that. Has she done everything she could do, no. Am I in the top 10%, I’d like to think so but again I couldn’t know that without continuing the journey and finding out I suppose.

@jaynelovesvera I loved every word you wrote, thanks for sharing that view point with me. I may well steal some of it for a future discussion with WGF

@mickie500 no actually this was probably more me than her. Neither of us are religious and we both saw M as inherently religious or almost like asking permission to be together. We got engaged early before we both found our own viewpoints on M and never went through with it. But our relationship is like a marriage in every way, shared finances, jointly owned home and assets, children, infidelity 🙄

We’re not Anti M in fact I have been best man twice and she has been maid of honour once. It just wasn’t our cup of tea so to speak.

@unhinged thanks for the words of encouragement. At the moment as I sit on my fence I can see the 2 pastures but neither are green at the moment. I am feeding and watering both until I see which one bursts into life.

@NotMyFirstRodeo sometime yes but then I think infidelity can be a very lonely place regardless of what the WS does. Sometimes it’s the good days that make me loneliest, those are the days when I realise what I lost. The shit days well tbh if I could just have a few more shit days it might give me the kick up the arse I need. But lonely all the time, no. In fact some days I almost feel smothered by WGFs attempts to show me how much she loves me (now)

Thanks again for all the responses I thought I’d finish with the following progress report.

I’m sleeping well - 8 hours a night

I am eating well and healthily - in fact I have learned how to cook and now do most of this

I am working out religiously and of the 12kg I lost around Dday I have put 6kg back on in muscle

I am running for the 1st time in my life and I have dropped 2 sizes in jeans

I have completely changed my wardrobe (now dressing like a 32 year old, oh the irony)

I have grown a bad ass Viking beard and I get noticed a lot - I rock this beard 😂 My barber has recently featured me in his marketing a number of times and now has kids half my age asking for “my look”

I am able to focus at work again (let’s say back at around 60%)

I have put money away for contingency

I am in IC, my IC continually tells me I don’t need him anymore (his initial job was keeping me alive, no exaggeration) I still keep going. I am in communication with another who is more experienced in infidelity but lockdown in U.K. will delay this.

The “M” is what it always should’ve been, what I deserved in the first place

Not so good

I am still constantly distracted (the hamster wheel)

WGF is not in IC but plan is for her to see the same person I am currently talking too.

HB is losing its shine (for me not WGF) still complete with mind movies

WGF is still very much conflict avoidant / discussion avoidant

WGF requires constant validation from me to tell her she looks good, smells good, is sexy, that I love her. Literally gets anxious if I don’t say something multiple times a day

WGF is still consumed with getting old. Beauty treatments are now a requirement not a nice to have. These include hair extensions, eye lashes, eyebrows, nails and Botox. These are probably spurred on by my own change in appearance and the attention I’m getting.

Think that sums up where we are.