SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I don't know how to quote yet as I am new here, but CT said:

This focus on "what the AP got" is just an indicator that some people aren't happy with their R decision if you ask me. For people who are still absorbing the shock and loss of discovering an affair, yeah.. I get it. But that aspect, along with so many others like focusing on calendar dates or having mind movies, eventually HEALS. If you let it. If you're proactive about it. If you're doing R for the right reasons. But when shit like that is still bugging you YEARS after signing on for R, IMHO you're stuck, not accepting and not standing by your own decision... and not in true and loving R.

Notwithstanding my prior post and the fact that I mostly agree with you, CT, this is TOTAL bullshit. I have forgiven my wife. I love my wife. I am no longer angry or resentful, but I am still sometimes sad and negative thoughts still sometimes intrude, even in my dreams (nightmares). People CANNOT control the thoughts that invade their minds, although they can deal with them and manage them. If you are implying otherwise and trying to shame betrayed spouses and suggest they are not sincere in reconciliation if they are still hurt by the lies and betrayal, you are doing more harm than good. I think you are trying too hard to win the argument when you say such things. Otherwise, I do agree with most of what you have said.

[This message edited by BetterNowReally at 3:51 PM, February 22nd (Monday)]

Because the fat acceptance movement is a lie, nobody is “healthy at any weight”, and fat people have shorter, more sedentary and unhappy lives.

Health matters. Health doesn’t have to mean 6 pack abs but it doesn’t mean fat rolls and third chins either.

I take issue with the part i bolded.

I'm 4'9" tall. Any damn weight shows on me and yes I'm a bigger woman. Even so i have an amazing hour glass shape, boobs that totally rock even after having four kids sucking on them (also surgery for to rule out cancer) and a perfectly full round ass.

I have a farm. Nothing about my life, fat or not, is sedentary! Im up at 4am every day. I haul buckets of feed out daily, hay when we have the square bales, huge bales of straw, carry out 200 feet of hose to water everyone. Ya totally laying around..

Unhappy. Hell no except when the snow blower craps out and i have to shovel 400 feet of knee deep snow in the driveway by hand. Geez fat or not anyone would be winded after that feat!

I have no problem wearing a two piece bathing suit. I'd proudly show off my scars from my breast cancer scare and my 3 c sections if they weren't well hidden. My tummy roll and stretch marks are proof that i carried twins.

Every scar, every wrinkle, every grey hair tells the story of my life and ill one day be an old wise Crone and i cant wait!

Wh is a yoyo. Hes either got the beer belly or hes so thin you can see every rib, his spine and his hips stick out. His arms and legs are amazingly sculpted tight muscles no matter what but he keeps switching between chubby and OMG man eat a sandwich. I prefer the beer belly. Skeleton Man isnt attractive.

Edited to fix bolding

[This message edited by DragnHeart at 4:01 PM, February 22nd (Monday)]

But to say that a willfully chosen commitment is some sort of on-going state of servitude and sexual slavery is nonsense. Don't give a sh*t about your partner's sexual needs, that is a choice you can make. But to then claim that betrayal of the marriage is some sort of celebration of women's emancipation is utter baloney.

Cheating ain't okay. Ever. For anyone or any circumstances.

But what are you saying here? If you get married then either partner must provide sex on demand whenever the other requires it of whether in the mood or not otherwise they are *checks notes* "willfully harming [him/her] and betraying the agreement to exclusivity"?? No I'm sorry. Marrying a person does NOT give anyone rights to wherever-whenever-like-it-or-not. And imho that very much is what is being implied over and over again on this thread.

Now of course if we are talking about a completely dead bedroom situation, that is a different ball of wax. But I don't think that's what is being bandied about here.

I have since truly forgiven her. My resentment is gone. I love her again, although it is not exactly the same as before. I have realized that I was not really upset about the weight as I now greatly enjoy her again, physically as well as emotionally. I had simply repressed my deepest feelings and focused on something on the surface.

You've got this far, BNR. You'll get the rest of the way too. I'm largely pain free at this point. That's not to say I never get a twinge over some forgotten trigger or that my fWH never puts his foot in his mouth. The whole thing is a process though, and when people get stuck on this kind of "the AP got something I didn't get" drama, their healing is delayed. They're stuck until/unless they resolve it. Sometimes that means they have to reevaluate their stay/go choice and sometimes it means they have to change their thinking. The alternative is just more of the same.

People don't go from severely traumatized to healed in a few months. It takes YEARS to work through it all. And I'm not saying that we have to shame the BS when they're stuck. But we're not doing them any service if we don't point out the fallacies in their thought process. The answer is NOT frog-marching fWW's to the fat farm. The answer is loving one's fWS enough to let them be human, and if we don't, understanding that that's about us, not them.

BNR I really appreciate your perspective and I'm glad R is going well for you.

JanaGreen, thank you.

CT, I appreciate your comments.

I have always believed that NO ONE should EVER be weight shamed. Even as a young “stud” I felt that way. I have a little sister who has greatly struggled and I have seen the senseless harm first hand.

As far as allowing a BS to be human, I totally agree. My wife has gone from remorseless to WAY too hard on herself. It is tough for her to allow herself to be human.

[This message edited by BetterNowReally at 5:31 PM, February 22nd (Monday)]

I typically avoid these threads. This might be the first time I’ve ever replied to one.

But I’m gonna wade in here. Please, please understand that I am not soliciting nor intending to incite a religious debate here. Bear with me all the way through my post before responding, please. Above all I want to make it clear that I understand and respect that not everyone identifies as a Christian and those who do not identify as Christian have no allegiance or accountability to the laws, guidelines, or precepts of the Bible. But as a Christian woman who does believe and is practicing a biblical marriage to the best of our ability, I’d like to respond.

First of all, Username123 posted a scripture describing requirements in a Christian marriage. You neglected to include the conclusion of that section where Paul wrote “I say this as a concession, not as a command. I wish all of you were as I am.” In other words, Paul’s idea of the best situation was for believers to remain single and celibate, focusing all energy on serving God.

Second, in my understanding of the faith, you can’t cherry-pick the parts that you believe in and follow, and discard the parts you don’t like. So if the husband is not loving his wife as Christ loved the church (sacrificially, unselfishly, unconditionally) then he does not, IMO, have the standing to require his wife to fulfill her role. And I’m not just talking about the sexual obligation to each other, but that is the one that seems to cause the most conflict and hurt.

I am in NO way saying or implying that any of the men in this thread are selfish. Nor am I making any judgment as to the quality of any person’s faith or ability to love their spouse appropriately.

This is just my understanding of the concept of body autonomy in a Christian marriage. As a betrayed wife, I can say that it was terrifying to consider submitting to my husband. It was terrifying to consider trusting him with my heart. It was much easier to share my body with him than my heart, but that was because of my past abuse and the destruction it caused to my sexuality and my core as a woman. We each had deep, hard spiritual work to do individually before we could rebuild our marriage. And what we found was something I’ve shared here before. When JM became the man he was supposed to be, he made a statement to me: “You want me to take care of you but you won’t let me. And you want me to lead you, but you won’t follow.” That statement probably wouldn’t work for the majority of the women here. But it works for me. Because I did want a H who could be trusted to lead; who would make good decisions that were unselfish and for our family’s best interest. I had to step out on faith and am glad I did. Because he has proven for the past 9 years that I can trust him.

With all that said, in the context of a Christian marriage, forgiveness is not optional, again IMO. It’s hard. And forgiving the sexual betrayal is so difficult that adultery is one of the grounds for D that is recognized in the Bible. Choosing to R, in a Christian M seems to me to require the willingness to let go of the natural desire for recompense. To accept that the concepts of fairness or “I’d better get more (whatever) than the AP got” have very little relevance. Because if both partners are striving to love the other unselfishly, sacrificially and unconditionally, then all of their needs will be met.

Okay, hopefully this won’t get me kicked out. And this is what works for me and JM, and how I understand this one facet.

I’d like to offer one other point. I’m in recovery, and in my active addiction I did some pretty awful stuff. After I was sober for a while I began to get impatient. I was doing all this work and still nobody trusted or believed me. And I started a pity party. But when I sat in those feelings, the bottom line was I thought I deserved better than I was getting. Recovery teaches us to Think. Think. Think. Get to the thought behind the thought behind the thought. And I had a breakthrough. If I was going to demand what I deserved, then I better be ready to take all of it. And the truth was that I deserved to be in prison. I deserved to lose custody of my children. I deserved to never be allowed to work as a nurse again. But I was given mercy. And I’m grateful that I didn’t get everything I deserved.

So as I’m thinking about this topic and how it comes up again and again, I’m thinking about what I discovered in my recovery. It occurs to me that this might be similar. I don’t think it’s wrong to feel that you got the short end of the stick. I don’t think it’s wrong or unhealthy to feel as the BS that your WS owes you at least as good as what the AP received. But you have to be willing to accept all of it. So yeah, the AP got anal or swallowing or the skinny person going to the gym. But they also got a dishonest person. A cheater. Someone willing to fake everything. They got an unhealthy person with no moral compass. Someone willing to debase herself for the illusion of “love.”

If that’s what you want, you’re not in R. And it’s not a wife you want.

Lastly, I do understand the place you guys are in. It had to be agony, and I am sorry. But it seems to me that you’re going to stay stuck in this place until you find another way to frame it. Your healing can not be dependent on what your W does or does not do. Your self esteem cannot be dependent on any other person. You will heal when you recognize where your power lies and then use it. And the only person in the universe you have power over is yourself.

So as I’m thinking about this topic and how it comes up again and again, I’m thinking about what I discovered in my recovery. It occurs to me that this might be similar. I don’t think it’s wrong to feel that you got the short end of the stick. I don’t think it’s wrong or unhealthy to feel as the BS that your WS owes you at least as good as what the AP received. But you have to be willing to accept all of it. So yeah, the AP got anal or swallowing or the skinny person going to the gym. But they also got a dishonest person. A cheater. Someone willing to fake everything. They got an unhealthy person with no moral compass. Someone willing to debase herself for the illusion of “love.”

SPOT. ON. I can't remember if it was this thread or the other one, but my xwh was so lovey and so poetry-sending and thoughtful with his ap in ways he n-e-v-e-r was with me. But honestly when it came down to it, I did not want him to do that with me because the ONLY reason he'd be doing so would be to keep the status quo (which in my case meant me doing all the adulting and him being jobless, shiftless, not contributing etc - erm nothankyou). There would have been no honesty or true care for me in it, and I had had enough of his lies and self-serving bullshit at that point.

I don't identify as Christian and I really don't care for scripture, but HFSSC you always have a way of relating your core beliefs in such a way that I actually can relate to them - just as an aside, thank you for that!

My WH emailed and text his APs (ow2 especially) 100 times more than he ever would me.

This was a sore spot for me for years. YEARS!!!

Then i just blurted out "why the hell can't you just email ME like you did HER????"

He responded:

"Why would i email you when i can talk to you face to face?"

He was right. No he will never email me like her but i get the face to face time she never did!

He will text me on his work breaks and lunch. Typically I'm busy doing farm stuff and I'm a bit annoyed to have to stop what I'm doing lol

We have become sedentary people. When was the last time anyone except a handful did any true physical work. It’s amazing that we have to go and pay to work out to try to get weight off of us. It fell off naturally when we were chopping cotton or peanuts or corn or whatever. We don’t do any of that anymore. Machines do it. Machines wash our clothes, our dishes, run vacuum cleaners that pick up dirt for us. We have Riding lawnmowers. Our bodies don’t know what to do with free time. Our bodies don’t know what to do with all that cereal on those aisles in the grocery store. Our bodies don’t know what to do with all that food on the snack aisle. We have invented so many things to take the heavy work away )and give us an over abundance of snacks) but we have nothing in its place. We sit in front of computers or laptops or some other device all day.

When I went to high school there was only one overweight kid in the entire school. One. One. Someone or something is poisoning us and it has to do with all the stuff that’s put in our food and we are not helping by sitting there all day. My concern is health, health. I don’t give a rats ass how much somebody weighs. That’s their business. My suggestion was only based on what’s going on in my family. My husband’s diabetes has disappeared since he started eating a combination of Mediterranean and Paleo diet. We started with keto and then slowly moved to what we eat now. I’ve lost a small amount but I have a great blood pressure and lots of energy.

Anytime there is a hot button topic, it’s a good time to remind everyone of the guidelines.

Please refrain from making generalizations. This thread is loaded with them.

Please refrain from discussing previous threads. Stay on this topic.

Please be respectful.

But what are you saying here? If you get married then either partner must provide sex on demand whenever the other requires it of whether in the mood or not otherwise they are *checks notes* "willfully harming [him/her] and betraying the agreement to exclusivity"?? No I'm sorry. Marrying a person does NOT give anyone rights to wherever-whenever-like-it-or-not. And imho that very much is what is being implied over and over again on this thread.

This is exactly the misinterpretation of my argument that I explicitly stated was not the argument. Coerced sex is unethical. There is no requirement to provide sex whenever and wherever a spouse wants.

What does exist, in a healthy marriage, is two parties that agreed that their sexual exclusivity comes with a commitment to care and provide for the other's sexual needs. Both commitments are two different sides of the same coin. This commitment is taken seriously. One party should not later unilaterally break this commitment, no more than one should unilaterally break the commitment of monogamy. Both are disgraceful and disgusting betrayals of a partner.

This is not on-demand sex. This is called caring. Caring means you are interested in your monogamous partners sexual needs and that you don't ignore them and make a conscious effort to satisfy them. Again, not every moment, not on demand, but neither ignored or neglected. Discretion is the keyword, this isn't a mandate, it's practicing caring. Any party can choose to opt out of this choice, but to do so for long periods of time leaves the marriage bereft of an important connection.

The OPs question is a different tangent and just one of the many betrayed questions that are difficult to grapple. Many WSs take great effort to satisfy the APs sexual needs.

In trade for kibbles or whatever the hell the justification. But somehow, the satisfaction of the BS, post affair, is suddenly turned into a question of submission instead of caring and commitment? This is grossly unfair and added insult to injury. If monogamous vows are re-established, so to should sexual caring and commitment. AGAIN, this is not on-demand, it's practicing consideration and being attentive. Nobody is saying one must submit, male or female, to every request for sex or every sex act.

[This message edited by Apparition at 8:55 AM, February 23rd (Tuesday)]

HFSSC if I knew how to do the slow clap GIF here I'd be doing it for you. Thank you.

I have noticed its always the same BW's group that run these threats into ground and away from the OP CLEARLY written question (albeit less than deftly stated considering the history here).

I originally thought it was simple agenda, now I suspect its their collective life baggage or lack of intellect or combination thereof (yes it is proven that anger makes people less than intelligent).

It is quite interesting how it must ALWAYS end up this way, every time.

Try listening for a change, it may help you more than expected in real life.

I think its impossible to expect a betrayed spouse to keep being fair about everything so do i think human rights lawyers need to step in if a Bh yells “ how come you only want to be thin when you are fking some other dude “ . No . Infidelity is hideous and it makes people say awful things to each other.

That being said after the immediate few days or weeks of pain and insanity the betrayed spouse HAS to try to come to their senses . Otherwise they are simply being abusive .

Telling your spouse that they have to meet a desired weight goal for you to be happy is belittling them and is flat out cruel.

Also sex has to be inspired it can NOT be coerced or demanded . Partners should talk about their sexual needs but not as a tool of manipulation or recrimination

I think the hardest bitterest bite of the shit sandwich to choke down is this: for the BS there ain't no such thing as "fair" after infidelity. Because honestly? There's really nothing a ws can ever *really* do to compensate the BS for the pain infidelity causes. (Tho that said, I take nothing from the WS's that are here working on fixing things).

Conditions for R are fine. And they are varied. What's important for one BS may not matter to someone else. But even IF a ws ticks off all those R boxes, it still isn't fair or balanced for the BS. It never can be.

That's the bottom line. And whether you R sucessfully, stay married for the kids and finances, or divorce, there comes a point where a BS has to square with that injustice. And imho, that process of coming to terms as the BS has zero to do with the ws. That's the acceptance a BS has to reach to heal. Questioning and demanding things and having the hottest spouse and all the porny sex you can shake a stick at doesn't change that eventual reckoning a BS has to do.

Or maybe I'm just angry and unintelligent. Who knows.

Getting back to post topic by oldtruck:

Ever been to Las Vegas? Notice any cards laying on the sidewalk?

See any "fat" ones?

Biological fact - major portion of men find visual attraction a big part of "the desire."

Hollywood glamorizes and people pay lots of $$ to support their products. Wife and I have been surprised by the "sex scenes" in movies where the foray into fluid sharing was anathema to the story line. Western 'shoot-em-up' and during a campfire sceen - the female pops up wearing only boots. WTF? Seems producers have a list of scene activities that have to appear somewhere in the movies no matter what the story line.

Look at the covers of the women oriented magazines on your way out the checkout counter at the grocery store. Rare there is a pic of an "unattractive" woman on the cover.

Why is that?

Why does the "news media" focus on improper (opinion there some) liaisons - no matter how much good the person has done in their life?

Was the paramour fat?

[This message edited by Hippo16 at 5:13 AM, February 23rd (Tuesday)]

Here is another biological fact for you . Biological male hetros throughout history have actually been more attracted to rounder bodies ; similarly female distribution fat ( chest , derrier )is biologically quite compelling and hard to find on super lean bodies .

Every womans body is an extension if her own humanity if you love the human in that body - the form will have something unique to offer to your eyes .

Also when it comes to women's magazines i think you might be a day late and a dollar short - over the past 5 years there has been a strong trend towards diverse bodies and away from manipulating photos to look unrealistically thin .

I do agree that the commodification/ gratuitous sexualization of the female body particularly young women through porn and porn inspires other media etc is pathetic and degrades both men and women . Hopefully that was your point .

[This message edited by siracha at 5:38 AM, February 23rd (Tuesday)]

Every womans body is an extension if her own humanity if you love the human in that body - the form will have something unique to offer to your eyes .

And vice versa. Women are visual too. My first marriage I married for more superficial reasons. We had nothing in common, no shared vision, no real way to build a future together. He became very unattractive to me over time as a result.

My husband when I met him, I was not immediately drawn to his looks. Not that he's unattractive by any stretch, he was just a very different type than what I normally was drawn to.

But, as I got to know him it was difficult to be in his presence and not feel aroused. The chemistry was undeniable. And, regardless of all that has happened, that still very much exists. He is the best sexual partner I have ever had regardless of present state of things. I think love is a great catalyst, and chemistry is a mysterious thing.

I also tend to think as we marry, most focus on the positives of your spouse and tend to downplay any negatives. When the love is broken by something such as infidelity, that catalyst fails to be there. So, if a man or woman comes to this forum saying "gee I am not attracted to her or him" it should be a surprise to noone.

She or he could have been fat when you married them, now it's just something logical to point at as a way to change it. It's just false thinking, that's all. It's the dream that changing something like that will bring it back. I don't think most of the time that's the change that brings it back, and that's why I highlighted siracha's quote. I think BNR hit the nail on the head on this too.

I agree that when we meet people we may judge them superficially and that sometimes that gets you the date, but that's not always what gets you the mate.

But they also got a dishonest person. A cheater. Someone willing to fake everything. They got an unhealthy person

ding ding ding... this is it.

OP - your definition of healthy needs to be looked at. It's not physical, or at least shouldn't be.