SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Gross.

Why stay married to someone for whom you feel such clear and obvious disdain?

A marriage where you feel like you need "compensation" to stay feels like one not worth being in

Someone desperately doing things (sexual, appearance-wise, acts of service) not because they themselves want to, but so that you stay for them, sounds like it'd be fun/schadenfreude for like a day or 2 before starting to feel disgusting

A lot of the ppl who agree w/ the sentiments expressed here seem to be in situations where other factors impede reconciliation (e.g. the wayward is no longer putting effort into the relationship, gets defensive, etc.) --- I think everyone in the thread probably agrees a conversation along the lines of "hey dear, it makes me feel bad that you no longer work out since you did that for your affair partner" --> "SCREW YOU my body my choice" is not OK/emblematic of a bad relationship; there's a middle ground where ppl hear out, talk about and work through insecurities mutually without forcing ppl to do things that I think is being missed here idk

[This message edited by bubblyclouds at 12:56 PM, February 26th (Friday)]

Oldtruck,

I agreed with you initially, but even I'm starting to feel that your responses are rubbing me the wrong way. I get where you are coming from in terms of the frustration of the wayward doing things for the AP that they either didn't do in the marriage or flat out rejected to the betrayed. It does make the betrayed feel like that even though the affair isn't a reflection on them, they still feel like they aren't the one's the wayward actually wants to be with. Trust me, I get it. Where I detract from you and others on these threads is talking about what you are anyone else is owed. Now I'm not going to straw man you and bring up things about coercion and the like. I think that interjecting that topic into these discussions is unproductive and leads to a lot of frustrations.

Instead of focusing on what is owed, I think the discussion needs to be focused on is why the wayward couldn't be enthusiastic about certain actions with their betrayed. As a man, I wouldn't want my wife to do things that she doesn't want to do. However, I would need a pretty good and honest explanation as to why she couldn't do whatever the grievance is with me.

So to the ladies of this thread, I completely and wholeheartedly agree where you are coming from. However, just like you fear that a man see's you as a walking hole, I believe the men on this thread fear that their wives are only attracted to them because of the things they can provide and are not actually physically attracted to them.

PS. You can blame the red pill community (I hate it) for all of this alpha/beta crap. This is a community that is poisoning men.

I believe the men on this thread fear that their wives are only attracted to them because of the things they can provide and are not actually physically attracted to them.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. I do understand why that fear is there. Especially in the cases where the man is the provider and the woman doesn't have the financial means to take care of themselves. So, it even compounds the issues further. They feel a little stuck or guilty because they can't just make her sink or swim. And, because there is one income it's difficult to turn that into two residences. And, it becomes complicated even worse when children are involved.

But, I also agree that a WS who is interested in changing and working on things is going to do things so consistently that would go a long way.

So, instead what I think we end up hearing in these threads is from the man (and in others the woman but the tone of this thread is BH/WW) is married to a WW who really didn't do any of this. OR, it would never matter what they did -because for some people divorce really should have been the solution. There is nothing wrong with saying this is not something I can get over enough to stay with you. That's a valid response to cheating.

So, they are left to conjecture what would have made them feel better, or what hurts, but feel somewhat powerless over their solution.

[This message edited by hikingout at 1:07 PM, February 26th (Friday)]

I believe the men on this thread fear that their wives are only attracted to them because of the things they can provide and are not actually physically attracted to them.

This is a great point. This is not in order, but I saw this recently and believe it is one of the most honest lists of what women desire and actually want in a man:

1. Hot

2. Tall

3. Good in Bed

4. Wealthy

5. Preselected

6. Status

7. Body Confidence

8. Older

9. Independence.

I think many women would argue with this list in order to put forth things like a sense of humor, intellect, values, etc. But I believe they put forth these things to make themselves look better and that they may indeed value other things, but its not actually what makes a man attractive. This is demonstrable in the men women choose, we all see it, it's gas lighting to even claim otherwise.

Men are somehow seen, and clearly being cast in this conversation, as the more superficial of the sexes. I think men and women are equally superficial and equally deep, depending on their moods and maturity.

Men who provide financial security to a WW may feel after D day that they are not selected in areas 1-3, despite whatever the marriage may have seemed like prior to the A. This would be exacerbated by a WW who performs sex acts with the A partner that they neglected in the marriage and even, to the OPs points, made themselves a more attractive sexual partner through exercise, clothing, grooming, etc. This exhibits a pursuit and selection of the A partner. The reasons a WS will then turn off that pursuit for a BH or BW is worth discussing.

Not saying WW's owe BHs any particular sex act or frequency (nobody owns or owes their bodies to anyone and that is indeed a strawman in the case of my argument about caring). As I said before, a commitment to the M means caring about your partners emotional and physical needs. Part of trust building is showing a partner they are selected across a spectrum of attributes - and for most men, this means more than a WW showing they only care about what the man can financially provide.

To leave your spouse, by prior and current actions and words to believe they are not selected for physical attraction is a betrayal of a healthy marriage and does not show caring.

That is very sad. I feel like she needs to continue to do work on herself because a healthy person would not frantically try to keep a marriage that the other person doesn't care about for years on end.

This. 👏🏻

I feel badly that Buck’s wife obviously thinks so little of herself. I hope someday she realizes she’s worth more.

That's the problem with WS's who haven't worked completely through the guilt and shame. They tend to accept abuse upon abuse believing that their earlier sins are insurmountable. And it's a good reason why these absurd assertions about sex and appearance as compensation need to be challenged. A marriage can only be as healthy as the TWO people in it.

This is a great point. This is not in order, but I saw this recently and believe it is one of the most honest lists of what women desire and actually want in a man:

1. Hot

2. Tall

3. Good in Bed

4. Wealthy

5. Preselected

6. Status

7. Body Confidence

8. Older

9. Independence.

Where did you see this list? Because no, just no.

At least in my case.

1. Wh wasn't HOT. Cute but more baby face cute.

2.Tall? Everyone is friggin taller than me I'm 4'9"...

3.Good in bed....he wasn't at first. Sucked big time until he learned what and how i like things.

4. Wh worked two jobs and yet made less than i did. I didnt care.

5 & 6 Have no idea what you mean by preselected and status. Clarify please?

7.body confidence....hmmmm honestly have no idea how he felt about his body.

8. Wh is younger, by 9 years.

9. Sure he was Independent he had to be. He ran his own side business and did presentations in schools.

It was his love of reptiles that i fell in love with. Finally someone who didnt care if i had a room full of snakes, geckos, lizards. Someone who could come home from work gather up all the fishing gear on a friday night and fish with me until 4am Saturday when the farmers market opened. Lol

elieve it is one of the most honest lists of what women desire and actually want in a man:

1. Hot

2. Tall

3. Good in Bed

4. Wealthy

5. Preselected

6. Status

7. Body Confidence

8. Older

9. Independence.

This list seems like some sort of fantasy list out of cosmopolitan or something. Almost like every guy desires a swimsuit model.

And now we get to the part of the thread where a man explains to the women what we want in a man, and then tells us that if we say otherwise, we're deluded or lying.

Who had Page 16 in the pool? I know I lost. I was betting on somewhere around 11.

I just want to add my 2cents worth.

My H is paralyzed from the armpits down. I found him sexy the first time I saw him. Atrophy in his legs? So what. Hands that don’t open? Don’t care. Have to always be on top? Worth the effort!!!

After his infidelity? Not soattractive any more. Not because of body issues, but of what was (or wasn’t) inside.

Now, the thought of him touching me is revolting.

From my side, due to thyroid issues (Hasimoto’s) and just failing to commit the time to getting healthier, I have probably gained 60ish pounds since we married. He has laughed at the impression my ass makes on the memory foam bed. He has told me he likes much smaller breasts.

I have REALLY wanted to lose the weight in the past 10-15 years. But there was NO WAY I was going to do that - knowing it might cause him to “come back” closer to me. And then the thought of him would make me vomit...

After reading this, I’m a bit stoked to be reminded that I would be doing it for ME - not him.

BSR,

Again, just another casualty of the red pill community. It has men convinced that what women say that want in a man is completely different than what they go after in practice. Are their people who honestly have no idea what they want in a partner? Im sure of it. The issue I have with the red pill community is that they are generalizing this mindset onto women as a whole, which in my mind is dangerous.

This list seems like some sort of fantasy list out of cosmopolitan or something. Almost like every guy desires a swimsuit model.

HA! Very good analogy.

I think I live in a different world where most of the women I know aren't looking for a man to take care of them financially because we have our own careers.

Most of the women I know would say:

1. Attractive - and that doesn't mean he doesn't rock a dad bod or has to be some Adonis.

2. Considerate and loving in Bed (interested in our pleasure)

3. Has his own career - not to support us, but more so we do not have to support them.

4. Would make a good partner, father

5. Makes us laugh, enjoy their company

6. Similar sensibilities, things in common, shared vision, similar background or religion

And, honestly, isn't this mostly what men want to? Maybe with some minor wording changes?

:

1. Hot

2. Tall

3. Good in Bed

4. Wealthy

5. Preselected

6. Status

7. Body Confidence

8. Older

9. Independence

Lol. No.

I want a man who is kind.

Who can make me laugh. Who loves children..especially mine,and his own.

One who is confident,but not arrogant.

A man who is intelligent.

A man who doesn't lay around,watching me do all the work.

A man who appreciates me.

Etc.

His height,his wealth, his weight, his dick size,, his age, and his status mean Jack shit.

And preselected??

[This message edited by HellFire at 2:44 PM, February 26th (Friday)]

Again, just another casualty of the red pill community. It has men convinced that what women say that want in a man is completely different than what they go after in practice. Are their people who honestly have no idea what they want in a partner? Im sure of it. The issue I have with the red pill community is that they are generalizing this mindset onto women as a whole, which in my mind is dangerous.

Watch out jbrent! They'll revoke your man card.

BSR I didn't get in on the bet in time, but would have guessed much sooner than page 16 too. Although, we did get sidetracked with recipes and formatting issues, so...

To keep on topic.

That list.

This is a great point. This is not in order, but I saw this recently and believe it is one of the most honest lists of what women desire and actually want in a man:

1. Hot

2. Tall

3. Good in Bed

4. Wealthy

5. Preselected

6. Status

7. Body Confidence

8. Older

9. Independence.

Ooooohhhhh. Okay thank you so very much for clarifying what I should be looking for next time, dear man! Apparently my husband that I loved dearly cheated on me cus I didn't have this handy-dandy list to go by when I fell in love with his overweight, broke-ass, status-less, unable-to-be-a-responsible-adult self.

Maybe his 18yo skank ap thought he was 'good in bed'. He was certainly older than her (double her age as a matter of fact), so maybe she knows something I don't?? At any rate, he certainly wasn't wealthy or independent since everything he owned his WIFE bought for him, so maybe not. Hmm, will ponder this notion so I can make sure to pick me a winner next time *finger guns*

*puts list in back pocket*

PS. You can blame the red pill community (I hate it) for all of this alpha/beta crap. This is a community that is poisoning men.

100% agree.

And now we get to the part of the thread where a man explains to the women what we want in a man, and then tells us that if we say otherwise, we're deluded or lying.

Who had Page 16 in the pool? I know I lost. I was betting on somewhere around 11.

Girl, same. I was betting page 13.

Never been happier in a relationship than the one I'm in now. With a man who's a raging feminist. That's now #1 on my list. Despite what the red pillers say.

his is a great point. This is not in order, but I saw this recently and believe it is one of the most honest lists of what women desire and actually want in a man:

1. Hot

2. Tall

3. Good in Bed

4. Wealthy

5. Preselected

6. Status

7. Body Confidence

8. Older

9. Independence.

Apparition, this is pretty revolting. It's not honest, it's just plain disgusting and dehumanizing.

Men (or women) are not commodities to be purchased where you pick out the features. If you choose a life partner based on these types of qualities, you deserve the hollow marriage that you'll get.

What I look for in a partner:

1. Honest and communicative

2. Intelligent and loves long conversations

3. Takes pleasure in making me happy

4. Works through problems, discusses feelings, and doesn't shut down

5. Polyamory-friendly

Bonus points for high sex drive, common interests, physical chemistry (which has literally nothing to do with looks imo), and similar kink desires.

There really is no "good in bed". Good in bed means someone who pays attention to your likes and dislikes and cares about your pleasure. Those are by far the best way to please someone sexually. It's not like there are some magic skills that are transferable to any partner :P You can always learn what your partner wants but you have to be willing to listen, pay attention, and actually care that you're pleasing them (i.e it's about them and not you).

Literally zero of the things on your list :P

[This message edited by PSTI at 3:22 PM, February 26th (Friday)]

By the time you have decided your spouse is a sex doll that needs to be berates devalued and accept dicks shoved in them (because thats what the betrayed is owed as a man ) you are living a highly pathological life.

Once you have degraded yourself degraded your spouse degraded your marriage just accept victory quickly and move on - hopefully to a better version of yourself

By the time you have decided your spouse is a sex doll that needs to be berates devalued and accept dicks shoved in them (because thats what the betrayed is owed as a man ) you are living a highly pathological life.

Once you have degraded yourself degraded your spouse degraded your marriage just accept victory quickly and move on - hopefully to a better version of yourself

I understand what you are saying and why. So, don't look at this response as I am disagreeing.

I just want to say there is nothing at all wrong with someone wanting a better sex life - quality/quantity after infidelity. We should all strive to have most of our boxes checked in the marriage. Sex *can* be one of the barometers of a healthy relationship.

Somehow these posts start losing track of the idea that most women do enjoy sex as much as men do. Sex is important to me, and I know it's important for our relationship.

If there isn't enough sex in your marriage, talk about it. We do tend to approach sex differently. I saw a tiktok the other day that summarized it perfectly. The wife said "When I want to make love with my husband I rub his back and whisper in his ear". The husband said "When I want to make love to my wife I show her my dick. I put her hand on my dick. I put my dick in her back and poke her with it. It's dick time Yeah!".

While this video was hilarious, it's true. I am a woman who has had a really good sex life over the course of our marriage, but the approach to initiating is a very big turn off a lot of times. More than I ever admitted to myself. Now that we are in recovery of his affair, I resent that more than I ever did in the past and it makes me very angry right now. If he climbs into bed naked and lays there like a log expecting me to notice so I will start doing stuff to him I basically respond by rolling over facing away from him.

I want to get back to our sex life, but right now there are lots of mental blocks that occur that have been very polarizing. I am of the belief once your sex life has become polarized it's very difficult to not trigger each other. One person feeling like they are always rejected, the other person always feeling like "give me some time to want it" or "do things that make me want it". And then that becomes this thing that hangs over the relationship.

Talk about needs, wants, desires, as if you are building a new relationship. Do not talk about needs, wants, desires as "You cheated and now this is what I am owed". You are 100 percent in your rights to not stay with someone who cheated. And, it's 100 percent okay to leave some time later when it's apparent they never became interested in learning about or meeting your needs.

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:45 PM, February 26th (Friday)]