SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

23 & Me is kind of garbage. I am 100% both of my kids are mine (IVF, I literally watched both of their eggs get fertilized). My brother bought everyone tests a few years back while he was deep in a family tree rabbit hole, as a way to get everyone excited about it, everyone's results were totally freaking different.

After posted I realized that this kind of test is something of a crapshoot. The geneticist I watched explained that you are just fortunate or unfortunate to get the genes you get. That’s why anytime you do these test you need to be aware that you are looking at a tiny amount of genetic information passed on by your parents. I have three children. None of them look alike and yet I most definitely am their mother and their father is most definitely their father. One is over 6 feet and one’s to 5’2". But they’re full siblings. Please be careful about making any claims until you know and that’s why you take another test.

Edited by SI Staff

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:39 PM, Tuesday, January 25th]

All of my cousins and siblings are correctly identified on shared genetic material on 23andme.

That's just my personal experience. I'm not saying one sample didn't get screwed up, but if they come back half or full siblings, that isn't a fuck up. He already has a second test that he could use if he wanted to see if it was some sort of mistake. If the other kid comes back as unrelated, there is a fuckup (we can be pretty sure they have a shared mom).

No one gives a shit if you are 0.4% pick an ancestry. This is about shared DNA groups where siblings will come up easily traceable to shared mom and dad because there are a bunch of total groups. You will share 50% with a parent, end of story. This is very easy to confirm if both DNA tests were collected and quantified correctly. On average 50% dna is shared with a full sibling plus or minus about 12%. You share 25% with a half sibling, plus or minus about 6%.

20% of people cheat.

All he has to do is open the second test, and he has a very high chance of a final answer with no further testing needed.

I'd retest, preferably using another company. Biggest danger is someone swapped a sample or someone swapped an infant or embryo. I'm pretty sure that both have happened but I can't say definitively swapped samples have happened. Retesting should eliminate the swapped samples.

Wife was adopted through a closed adoption. She did both 23 and me and ancestry and chose the optional connect to relatives. We are in the US where several people have done the tests so connections were found. OPs results might differ but I'd definitely check the connections for all of them.

Her results through both companies were consistent just with different interconnection points. Due to these tests she was able to determine who her mother and some half siblings on that side. The father's connection is through a 2nd cousin but from that we can narrow the father down to one of 4 brothers or potentially one of their sons. All potential fathers have since deceased. Unless her father was that son who died at an early age, both parents were married to others at the time.

[This message edited by grubs at 7:22 PM, Tuesday, January 25th]

You should not rely on the bargain basement variety of DNA testing - 23 and me and ancestry.

Seek out a private lab that specializes in paternity. Do so discreetly. Should the testing prove once or both are not yours you remain free to act with out her being able to counter you - blindside her with divorce. Should the testing prove they are yours then no turmoil has been generated within your marriage and you can move forward without incident.

This0is0Fine is correct. So bite the bullet and look at the other test.

If it confirms your fears, do an additional test(s) with a different company. A professional one that specializes in paternity.

If ever there was a time to check, re-check, and then check again...this is it. You do NOT want to proceed without solid data.

This can't be repeated enough. Please don't panic and blow up your life based on a single, or even two, consumer DNA tests. Test again with something intended to verify paternity before you do anything.

For anyone who doubts those of us questioning this please look up babies switched at birth. They are a lot bigger than a DNA sample and they wound up in the wrong place.

What others have suggested. Don't confront wife until this is figured out. It might take months but the consequences if it's all a mistake could last a lifetime.

Have you looked at the results of kid 1? I'm in suspense.

These tests are accurate enough as long as no mix up at the testing company. Did you watch both kids give their sample spit?

If there is a problem I'd contact the company directly. Set up a separate email account and use your work phone number.

Does 23andMe have members who help out sometimes for free? My friend is a member (not an employee) of another test company and helps people read and understand the results of DNA matches. Has found unknown fathers, biological parents of adoptees, half siblings with methods similar to how the Golden State Killer was found with a match to a distant relative.

Keep us updated.

Hey all!

First things first, I want to thank you all who gave a reply to my original post. Even though I didn’t have the mental clarity to reply, I appreciate each and every one of your heartfelt replies, insightful experiences and support notes.

I’ll break my update into 2 or 3 separate replies, this first one as a general update and the following ones as specific wisdom/advice seeking and general rambling.

I'm sorry for the way too long messages, I still find writing this cathartic.

*Edit to add:
Regarding the replies insisting on making a second test before confronting my wife, I get what you mean, I really do, but here's my reasoning:
I intend to start the conversation calm, just mentioning I got the results back from 23andme and that there's some weird result. It says I'm not the father of the kids.
The next 10 seconds will dictate what happens next.

She starts crying or stays in shock without saying anything = no further testing needed.
She starts crying saying it cant be true = no further testing needed.
She starts crying or whatever and says it can't be true because I have never cheated = That's good, should we retest to see where things went wrong? She agrees = that's even better, she disagrees = I'm in an even worse position than I thought.

Some more background.

Back in early 2012, she took a managing position at this not that small organization. It was a good salary increase with some new challenges at a troubled company. I was a consultant for that company at one point in the past, so I know for a fact that the work environment was extremely toxic, finances on shambles, and people fighting over peanuts, however a new president of the board with the promise of change made my wife happily accept the offer.

While at this job she was making 30-40% more than I did. We have always had joint finances (but not joint accounts).

She has this outgoing, happy personality. People often confide her with overly personal details. She’s the kind of person who knows the supermarket cashiers by name, how many kids they have and to which school they go, their marital situation, etc. so naturally while at this job she made friends, some 5-6 females and 2 males, from the males one was a subordinate on her team, the other a peer. I’m 99.9% sure the OM is one of these two.

Over the years she mentioned overly private details about the lives of her work friends, it didn’t activate my spidey senses then because she also casually shared as much and equally private details about the lives of her female work friends too. Had I read Shirley P Glass’ book I might have had an opportunity to intervene since now it’s crystal clear she has always had trouble establishing boundaries. It never felt focused on someone in particular, obsessive or even constant. Just short comments here and there over the years.

She quit that job by the end of 2017, she left there very hurt and damaged. Wasn’t the only one. Most of her team was either fired or quit, with lots of other department heads getting fired or quitting too. The organization was worse than ever. I know this for a fact because of my old connections from my consulting days there.

Starting in 2018 she took a job at the kids’ school, taking a 60% salary cut, but with a great work environment. She’s very happy there.

It was (is) like being a SAHM while getting paid for watching the kids from a distance at school. It made sense for us since by then I was already making a lot more.

And I kept making more, today around 90% of our combined income comes from me. This is kind of new for us since for most of our lives together we had been making around the same +-20%.

From March/2020 until Sep/2021 the school was shut down due to covid so she and the kids were working/taking classes from home.

The report for the other kid.

Bad news for me. Kids match as 100% bros with me nowhere to be seen. Wife has/had a Long-Term Affair (LTA). The odds of this being false are in the one in a trillion (probably worse) range since my report is filled with recognizable family names.

I opened that report last Friday night, was half drunk. The wife was already asleep and half-drunk too.

I don’t think it’s necessary to tell you how I felt.

I had a go with her phone, was the only device left to check, and spent over 3 hours with it.

The next morning, I was oddly calm, like zoned out. A zombie maybe? It was a very weird detachment sensation. Thought about confronting her then but decided it was not a good idea considering we had to go pick up the kids at my MIL’s house just a couple of hours later.

Actual, proven findings from checking on her devices.

Over the past couple weeks, I had remote access to her work PC. There she has her google account logged in chrome. Checked our family laptop and by the end of the week her phone too.

I checked around 18 mos worth of browser, youtube, and google search history, around the same amount of g location history, her current work email, new (2017) personal email, FB, WhatsApp, call logs, SMS, an old personal email (2005) to which she lost her password years ago but it’s still accessible on her phone, contacts. No weird apps on her phone either.

I conducted several search strings, names, email addresses, etc. Her main means of communication are WhatsApp and FB messenger.

I couldn’t find any evidence or even suggestion of a current affair going on. Everything I saw suggests she has been affair-free for at least 2 years, possibly 3-to 4. Makes sense considering the new job and later covid lockdowns.

What I don’t have access to is her old job email account and WhatsApp history from that period. I know for a fact that she used her old work email for both personal and business-related stuff, unfortunately, I will never have access to it. That’s forever lost.

As for WhatsApp’s old history, here’s the weird thing: there’s nothing regarding her old job. Nothing. No messages with her secretary, no work friends msgs (both male and female), no workgroups, nothing. Like it never happened. Just old work people history was deleted.

Some circumstantial evidence.

If at some point things ended with the OM I would understand that chat history to be gone, but everything else on WA too? I know she left that job devasted, so maybe that’s the reason she deleted everything and focused on forgetting a pretty bad work experience. I don’t know. Would be cool to have access to that chat history. I’m still researching as there might be an old backup on icloud, who knows.

On FB messenger I found a chat with 1 of my 2 suspects, the subordinate. The chat starts a couple of months after she left that job (early 2018). Paraphrasing, His message goes about him apologizing to her and blaming himself for the havoc that went on in the office in the months before her quitting. She didn’t respond, he sent another message a few days later insisting and excusing himself, saying he’s sorry and that he misses her. The tone is of 2 very close people, but unsure/inconclusive if lovers level close. She goes on to say mistakes were made, how it wasn’t his fault, how she got hurt and betrayed by many people over there, and that she’s already forgiven and working on healing herself. They say I miss you to each other (again, unsure if miss you as a very close friend or old lover), he goes to say he’s happy she’s recovering, prays for her and her family, etc.

A few months later there’s a message from him saying sorry for calling you so late on a Sunday night, then goes on to talk about finally splitting with his wife, she not wanting to know more about him and his suspicions of her having somebody else, he sends her screenshots from messages with his wife, rambles about not knowing what to do and how devastated he feels and asking my wife for advice. My wife gives him advice. A year later a "happy mothers day" message from him and her corresponding reply. The last message was from some 18 months ago by my wife sending him one of those generic prayer images and him thanking her.

If this guy is not the OM, he sure as FK knows who is it.

More on our relationship

My wife is still all those things I said about her on my first post. I can see that clearly, these new discoveries don’t change that, they add to her, if it makes any sense. She’s all that I typed earlier plus all this new sick, disgusting new-to-me side.

That fucks with my mind pretty badly. On one hand we have a great loving relationship, on the other I know she has done the unthinkable to me.

Part of me says give don’t make any rash decisions yet, hear her out and decide what’s next on a day-to-day basis, After all just a couple of weeks ago I was in bliss.

Then the next hour I get angry and get mind movies and triggers and remember this was going on for years and she infected my happiest memories, leaving me empty, losing the only defining thing I had going on for me… how could someone ever forgive that? How could I ever recover from that?

I had a pretty shitty upbringing. An absent father whom I was lucky (or unlucky depending on his mood) to see once or twice a year. A mother sleeping all day every day after a few too many benzos, a house in rubble. The only saving grace while growing up was my grandmother, rest in peace. Looking back she pulled some incredible magic giving me and my siblings at least some glimpses of balance and normal. She’s the reason I’m a man whose only focus in life has always been family and making sure my children don’t ever have to go through what I had.

My wife had it even worse. A drunk father who 3 or 4 times a week would use her mother as a punching bag, non-stop screaming, fighting and a stereo at full volume so the neighbors couldn’t hear. She took the job as her 5 year younger sister protector, distracting her and pretending everything was ok outside of their room. Eventually her father left when she was 14, he already had another woman and a new child. I’ve never met him.

Over the years during our deep talks whenever we talked about our childhoods we always reach a point where she just shuts down and won’t ever go down further. I’m sure there was child abuse too, sexual. Maybe worse.

According to a paper I read last night and some mentions of it on Linda J MacDonald book I can see now how she was a prime candidate to become a cheater. That doesn’t excuse her; she made her choice, hundreds of choices actually but at least that kind of explains my "How could she do that to me?"

Have you ever heard of a case as bad as mine?

[This message edited by ShouldHaveStayedAsleep at 6:13 AM, Thursday, February 3rd]

Update 2

Digging deeper within me, state of mind and general rambling.

Back in late 2012/early 2013, we had a rough patch. Lots of fighting, disagreements, financial problems, family problems, you name it. At some point during that time, I remember her giving me the infamous "I Love You But I’m Not Sure I’m Inlove With You Anymore" We decided to make an effort to fix us, and eventually things were back on track by mid-year. Things got better and better as time progressed. 2021 was our best year to date.

Now I know better, the EA probably started around that time (late 2012-early 2013) making the LTA at the very least 3.5 years long, most likely anywhere from 4 to 6 years long.

This is from one of our usual long talks in the kitchen from a couple of weeks ago:

Me: Do you love me?
Her: With all my heart. If it weren’t for the kids, I would give my life for you.
Me: Since when do you love me?
Her: Laughs, well.. since we made it official 20 years ago?
Me: LOL, let me rephrase that question. When did you realize it was "forever, love of my life, always together love"?
Her: *Tells me, with extreme detail, a moment from 2013, when we were working things out from that bad patch mentioned earlier.

Problem is, at that point, she was probably already having sex with OM and just a few months later procreating their first son.

This gem from my WA logs:
Random weekday, mid-morning

Her: Do you ever feel like I don’t love you? Like I don’t give you enough attention, don’t hug or kiss you enough? Don’t tell you I love you enough?
Me: WTF? What are you smoking? Where is this coming from?
Her: Was just talking with female work friend, divorce is for real this time, her husband says that in part it's because he doesn’t feel loved anymore, that she only has time and care for their kids.
Me: You are crazy. We are good! I love you!!
Her: I love you too, whenever you feel I’m not there for you, please let me know.

That was just 2 months before kid 2 conception.

And just like those 2, I have dozens of written examples and many more in my memory.

How sick can someone be to pull this off? Makes no sense to me. Why didn’t she separate/divorced me back in 2013 if she was already with someone else? How can someone be this kind, caring, loving, and connected person with her hubby while also being involved in a full-fledged extramarital affair? Mind-boggling.

Last Saturday when we went to pick up the kids at my MIL’s I realized it was the kids what hurt me the most.

Until then I was spaced out, when we arrived at the house, kid 1 sees his mother, waves at her. Then sees me, gets up, walks to me, hugs me, and says "I love you so much, dad". That moment right there felt like a thousand knives going thru me. I had to excuse myself, claiming I forgot to pick something up at the pharmacy. Spent the next 60 minutes crying like a baby at a Walmart parking lot.

Once back at our house the kids were playing and constantly saying "Hey dad, look at this", "dad, check out this trick", dad, dad, dad, dad… every time I heard that word was a punch in my stomach. Cried a lot more after everyone went upstairs. Things have gotten progressively worse since then.

I started getting triggers and mental movies. Everywhere and everything brings them. Pictures, Facebook memories, real memories, places, every corner of the house.

I realized the only memories that are not triggering me right now are the ones with me and the kids alone. Every other memory or picture involving my wife gets insta poisoned with the "look how happy we were/looked, she probably banged OM/talked shit about me earlier that day" others go, and these are the worst: "she was probably wishing OM was there instead of me". About the mind-movies of them together I just can’t stop them. I’ve tried suggestions found both in the FAQs and elsewhere online and just can’t. The movie is playing in the background, in the corner of my eye, on loop, even while focused on typing this thing I can see it there, just slightly out of my mind frame.

I’m a family man, everyone who knows me knows my main focus for my entire adult life has been my wife and kids.

I’m pretty much screwed because, whenever anyone has dared to ask me "Which is the happiest moment in your life?" they always get the same response: Happiest day: When kid 1 was born, 2nd happiest day: when kid 2 was born, 3rd happiest day: My wedding day.
I remember each of those days like it was yesterday. And whenever someone dares to ask, "and after that? What’s your happiest memory after that?" I go blank. I have nothing, nothing comes even close, and trust me, I have given a lot of thought to this.

And now those 3 days, life-defining days, are poisoned with the aforementioned triggers and mental movies…

And the doubts and questions are getting worse by the day. Yesterday I woke up thinking "did she bring him here? To our house? Did she bang him on this bed?" And with such a LTA, it’s entirely possible.

I’m fearful now, my mental state is getting worse by the day. I try to do the recommended stuff, even though I can’t eat much right now I make it a point on it being good food. I have been taking long daily walks, I have been researching on grief, betrayal and trauma. Started meditating again (it’s hard after all these years, but I do my best), etc, still, I’m getting uglier and uglier questions and doubts each passing day.

The coming confrontation

She knows something is going on, she has messaged and approached me several times asking if I’m ok, telling me "I love you and I’m here for you", I’ve done my best to dodge the questions until the right time comes which will be this coming Friday. I told her I’m not feeling good and that we should set some time to talk without the kids interrupting every 5 minutes. She arranged for the kids to go away next Friday.

I’m pretty sure she has no idea this is coming. I think she believes I’m either sick with something serious or confessing to something bad thing.

I’m also pretty sure she’s convinced the kids are mine judging from the amount of effort and planning that took place between us back then, her not resisting for the DNA test. Hell, the OM could have told her he had a vasectomy for all I know. She might also have been unaware that sperm can live up to 5 days inside the female body so since she was tracking she might have thought it was safe since she wasn’t ovulating, but then as the next egg was released it was already under siege by OM swimmers.

With all this in mind, I’m dreading this first talk will turn into a disaster. I can already see her crying and screaming "no no no no, that can’t be true", sobbing, crying, screaming and shutting down in shock.

I’m planning on bringing this up in the most calm, just stating facts way I can. Her face during the first few seconds will tell me if that 1 in a trillion odd this is wrong has a chance.

There’s also the odd chance that she chooses to cooperate and starts answering questions, how could I prepare for those punches?

They say trickle truth and telling you what they feel you should hear are bad and prolong the grief process, and I’m sure that’s true, however learning stuff one piece at a time may give you just enough time to partially process your emotions to the point where you are no longer shaken to the bone by each new revelation. I don’t know, I’m probably talking stupid here.

So I ask for your wisdom and advice on how to handle this most constructively.

What happens after that? Should I go? Should she go? What happens the next day? What about our daily life and obligations and commitments? How do you cope? What do you do after you drop the bomb? Do you stay silent and wait for them to start talking? Should I tell her what I feel? Would that be productive or counterproductive at this stage?

Calling it off right now or waiting it out.

I’m pretty confused right now. I cycle from "fk this sht, I got to get out" "I need to run away" to "But I fkn love those kids to death and I know behind all this grief and pain, there’s love for her too"

You just can’t unlove a child, at least I can’t.

I want to minimize the damage to the kids, to protect them as much as possible from the coming fallout. They are innocent victims here too.

I know it’s common wisdom to kick out the WS in case you are calling it off, but I just can’t picture myself disturbing that much the lives of my kids (typing "my kids" causes me heartache, but that’s how I think of them), yet I don’t want to live in a dumpster with a daily 2 hour commute while I figure myself out and my next steps. I mean, grieving in a shithole for months doesn’t sound very appealing or healthy for the mind.

From a legal POV there’s nothing much to do either. Around here women usually get the house, full custody and alimony equating to at the very least 15% of the man’s income, per kid. Adultery is not accepted as a valid cause for divorce either. In either case I don’t really care about the house, in my eyes the house is for the kids. Financially speaking even though we are pretty good while together, living on my own with around 30% of my income after alimony and debt in this stupidly expensive city would subject me to substandard living conditions at least for a few years until I manage to level up.

Yet, such a LTA with such consequences will make staying incredibly difficult too. I’m lost here.

What’s the common wisdom here? Any advice?

What you have shared could be compared to getting a phone-call that a close relative has been in a traffic accident and is at St Johns Hospital and asking you to get there.
That’s all you know.

You don’t know if they got the wrong number, if it’s life or death or if the relative simply needs a ride home because of a sprained foot.

Your last post… It’s you looking for your car-keys while phoning an undertaker to find the best price of coffins, while googling florists for flower arrangements while wondering what to offer at the wake.
All this before knowing what you are dealing with…

YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN ADVICE!

Get the second test done!

If you can’t wait to confront then do what I suggested. A more elaborate version here below:
"Honey. The DNA tests I did came out funny. According to them I’m not the father. They might be wrong so I’m having new samples sent to a different tester, but is there something I should know? Is this just a mistake by the tester? Please – I’m open for the tester to have made a mistake. I don’t want to jump to conclusions, but how would YOU respond if a woman alleged I was the father of a child and waved a DNA test result? Wouldn’t you too have questions? NOW is the time for honesty, because the later test will inevitably prove the first test was wrong, or that I have been kept in the dark about major issues".

OP - I think you should have the conversation immediately. If you don’t, you and your marriage will be permanently altered. The buildup can lead to huge problems down the road, resentment, etc.

If the talk goes the optimal way, then you and your wife together should agree to do the second test.

If it turns out she had an A, from what you’ve said about your wife, snd your relationship, she appears to be a good candidate for R - you appear to be receptive to R as well.

If you ignore this altogether it will fester like an open wound and turn into a massive infection

With all this in mind, I’m dreading this first talk will turn into a disaster. I can already see her crying and screaming "no no no no, that can’t be true", sobbing, crying, screaming and shutting down in shock.

I would say it's going to be that or, a sad acceptance she's been caught out. Hopefully she won't show you a cold cruel side to her blaming you or showing little remorse. As you philosophized in your latest posts, if these aren't your kids, she obviously has or had, a very dark side to her personality.

I would approach your wife sooner rather than later, it's starting to eat you alive. Sometime this week, do it. What Bigger just suggested sounds like a good way to tell her what's happened. Ideally the two of you together do doctor sponsored tests so that you, she, her family, your family can all see in black in white, definitively what the story is. If I'm her family, I'm going to want a more reliable test than 23 and Me to prove paternity before I accept the situation.

Given the evidence you've uncovered looks like there's a significant chance she cheated on you. In the face of this evidence, long experience from everyone on this board will tell you if your wife denies an affair, you can't trust her denial. Cheaters lie, and usually are very good at. Furthermore, being married to you for 20 years, she's going to know how to push every one of your buttons to gaslight you, blame shift, she'll know how to cry to make you want to protect her. Unless she confesses, uncovering what happened 8-10 years ago will be a challenge. You could try talking to this guy she supervised who sent what I think are inappropriate messages, see what his story is. One more reason to get a reliable paternity test done, that will tell you something black and white, all else will be difficult to uncover without a confession.

If these aren't your kids, your situation is getting very close to beyond this forum's pay grade. You asked how bad your story would rate - very bad. Just heartbreaking. There's serious legal issues here, you'll need a good lawyer to help you and protect you.

You're going to be tested like nothing else in your life. Any man might go half mad with rage and grief finding out his kids aren't his. Don't be afraid to find a good therapist to help you deal with it all. Courage to you.

Try to be as humane as you can to those two kids. They know you as their father.

I'm so sorry this has happened. Good luck with your confrontation.

Dear (((ShouldHaveStayedAsleep)))

Please just reread Biggers post above, although your second set of posts paint a bad picture, you still do not know the facts.

If you just get and wait for real DNA tests it will give you a little time to get your legs back under you. Some time to know how you will/should react if the child is not yours biologically. You could even see an attorney during that time to know what D (divorce) looks like for you.

If you really can't wait a couple weeks (understandable) you may find your wife just deny, deny, deny making matters even worse. Then you will be waiting for tests anyway and may even have a hard time getting the tests.

I still hold out hope this is a crazy mix up. I am sure you are too. The pain of betrayal by your best friend your wife and the person who is supposed to "have your back" is something no one should have to endure.

Much Love my Man
Organic

Another thing to think about OP, if your wife becomes very distraught during your confrontation, you probably should have a plan to get her some support, short term and long term. Her family, her best friend, therapist, pastor, etc.

I'm saying this for a couple reasons - your 20 year marriage and possible affairs 10 years ago, this could hit her very hard. There have been a few stories here at SI where wives who cheated in their long time marriages tried to hurt themselves after a confrontation like yours.

ShouldHaveStayedAsleep

What happens if your wife denies, and she is telling the truth? DNA tests prove the child is yours. Can you repair that damage to what is a good marriage? Again, if you must confront read BIGGERS post again.

I think attorneys have a saying "never ask a question you do not know the answer to"

A couple weeks will be hard, but you will have time to think about R (reconciliation) or D and you could get good legal advice during that time.

Respectfully,
Organic

I think Bigger's approach is well advised. You should follow it.

All of that worrying and speculating you're going through in terms of how the encounter might proceed, that's a species of stage fright. If I could offer one bit of advice, it would be to listen, and process. Then listen more, and process more. The urge in a setting like this is to vomit out the stream of conscious thoughts and feelings you have. You need to resist that urge. Instead, listen to what she has to say, critically, and ask questions based on what she says.