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Hey, I just wanted to let you know I'm in your corner. That was a tough confrontation, but rest assured, there is much more to the story. First of all, cheaters lie. She lied then and she is lying now. Be prepared for some more ugly truth.

It is very possible that this was not her first rodeo, so prepare for that.

And the fact that she was quite emotionless for a good portion of the talk would trouble me. Red flag.

You need to stop with the begging and pleading. Strong men don't beg. She won't believe you are serious if you beg and plead. I get that you are a good family man and want to keep your old life, but that is how you feel while experiencing the shock phase. You may feel differently later. It will be a roller-coaster of emotions from here on in.

Now, I did a lot wrong after Dday#2, but I had yet to find SI. This place would have helped me in the early days. I found it a few weeks in, but the damage was done and I had to take back my lost power. It's a good idea to run things past the wiser members here before you try something, just to get feedback. I've found that the collective wisdom of this place helps.

As for your WW, it sounds like she is trying to tell you she took one for the team? I did what had to be done...what the hell does that mean? You might also want to do a forensic audit of your accounts to see if she was blackmailed. Maybe threaten to call the police to investigate as you suspect criminal activity. You can also te her that since she has expressed fear of these bad people, you are now in fear for your safety and would like to contact the authorities. If she says there is nothing to fear, tell her you'd like to believe her, but you've recently discovered that she is a really good liar.

Remember, cheaters lie...a lot. And your WW has established that she is pretty good at it and had no intention of ever stopping. Steel yourself forcwhat is to come and remember that we have your back.

I just wanted to add one thing. And I know it's too early to talk about this, but with my trauma brain I'll forget if I don't mention it. If she did use any marital assets towards her affair, then you have a claim to those. Now, I'm what you call a vendictive asshole, so I would suggest that a symbolic act of contrition, if you eventually choose to R, would be her taking a shitty, low paying job and making financial restitution to the marital account. She needs to pull a Zachias moment and give back more than she took. Remember, she robbed from you and the family.

[This message edited by Justsomeguy at 4:46 PM, Saturday, February 5th]

Yeah. I came back to remind you that begging and crying, while understandably the first reaction, need to stop. You need to take control as best you can. It will get easier later.

You need to make her think that the marriage is over and all the whining and crying she does will not change that fact.

She has to understand that it is 100 % on her to fix this, which starts with fixing herself. Pure unadulterated honesty is the first step. She won’t do that if you show her that working on your emotional distress is a way forward.

You need legal advice right away too. Take Monday off and make it happen.

In order to recover, I think you need to separate your thoughts and feelings from those of your W.

In this case, I think your W's motivations are important. For example, did she actually have a 3.5+ year A - a relationship? Or did she cheat just to get pregnant? Did she place having kids above everything else? If she thought she had a relationship, her healing will take one path, probably a path that's pretty well trod. If she just wanted a sperm donor, there are other things she'll probably have to do to heal.

Being betrayed has some pretty common - probably close to universal - effects on a BS. Finding our one isn't one's kids' bio father is also fairly common and brings with it fairly common thoughts and feelings. The anger, grief, fear, and shame of being betrayed comes irrespective of the WS's motivation.

Here's the thing: you can't fix your W. You can't even get her help, even if you make appointments for her with an IC. You need to attend to yourself. The sooner you process your pain out of your body, the sooner you'll heal. The sooner you start processing the pain out of your body, the sooner you'll start making good choices for yourself and your kids.

Right now, it looks like your W is justifying her cheating to herself. You need to attend to your own healing because she may not change her own thinking. If you wait for her, you just delay your own recovery.

Long time lurker, first time poster.

This is one of the hardest stories I've read on here. Just wanted to reach out and say a lot of peolpe are feeling for you right now and you have a lot of experienced posters looking out for you.

As others have said, you only have the tip of the iceberg. But, what is clear is that the woman you thought was your wife, is not, and never has been that person.

The next few days are going to be hard. Keep hydrated, eat what you can and if you are struggling with anything physically or mentally see a doctor for help.

You should keep a VAR or recorder on you. I hope it is unnecassary, but your wife seems unstable and you never know what she may do or accuse you of. She has already made unilateral decisions within the marriage and if she feels threatened you could become the fall guy. I hope not, but just in case keep safe, so you can look after your children.

Our relationship.

We've been together for 20 years, almost 21. Our kids are 7 and 5.

The kids were not a random act, they were both planned.

Some 8 years ago we started talking about having kids, about being ready. After the first month without a positive result, we went to the doctor just to check, a few tests and it turned out I have a low count. Doc gave me some vitamins asked me to lose some weight and assured us we should see a positive result in a few months.

We started tracking her period, basal temp, ovulation strips, you name it and sure enough, 5 months later we were pregnant with our first.

This was his first post so that everybody is up to date with certain facts.

I think maybe you could try to talk to the subordinate. He seems friendly and harmless and you could talk to him about the rough circumstances about how your wife lost her job back then. You would be the concerned H that's all. You could bring up the peer, all w/o bringing the affair up. You could ask if he ever got the willies from peer.

I do know how cheaters lie. Maybe peer and his wife aren't dangerous at all. Maybe they are only dangerous to your wife, as if, maybe you contact them and he tells you everybody knew about subordinate's affair with your wife and that's what got her fired.

I think a polygraph with no warning whatsoever, like 'let's go for ice cream' and then turn into the examiner's parking lot, is in order.

Two things stand out to me ... 1st, you don't have anywhere close to the whole truth here and are unlikely to get it soon, and 2nd, you need legal advice asap, and emphasize this is ALL NEW INFORMATION TO YOU.

Based on this first batch of trickle truth, it is quite obvious that you don't have a safe life partner and need to get away from this woman immediately. For your own peace of mind, you really don't have any options here as far as reconciliation with this woman. Also, if it were me, I'd put the whole shit show in my rear view mirror and make a clean break from everyone involved and start over. It may sound harsh to some, but no man should have to live in this nightmare with built in daily reminders of just how twisted and evil some people can be to betray you to this level.

Also, get your head around the concept that the woman you thought you married doesn't exist and probably never did, and that based on her own actions, you now owe her NOTHING. YOU are your number one priority now and maintaining your current level of anger is very healthy in maintaining that focus.

[This message edited by ButAnyway at 5:35 PM, Saturday, February 5th]

OP, when you started the thread, many people (including myself) thought that the tests were wrong and that you were reacting too early. But man, you knew it in your gut. The gut is almost always right.

The pain of discovering infidelity years later is as intense as discovering it when its still happening. On top of this, the kids situation adds another layer of complexity. People are telling you to talk to a lawyer. But brother, you need a therapist right now. The situation you have is very difficult to process all by yourself.

I am so very sorry for what your wife has done to you. I don't believe a single word that she has said and I don't think you do either. Allow her other family or friends to support her. You can tell them as much as you want or as little as you want but all they have to know is that she is in crisis due to her betrayal/deception/lies and she needs support from people other than you.

You do not need to spend an ounce of energy supporting her right now - you support you and focus on getting help that YOU need. Do not worry about her especially if you are getting her mental health support that she needs.

She’s harbored a terrible secret for many years. Like covering up a murder. She’s been dreading this day for a long time. It’s been taking a heavy toll on her. Probably layers of repression to cut through. She’s in a terrified discovery shock mode right now. To her, her world is collapsing in upon itself and she’s scrambling desperately, hopelessly trying to save it, and it’s all her fault and she knows it. There’s no way the truth is just going to come right out, right now.

But, she needs to unload this terrible burden, ideally, in a therapeutic setting, for her mental health, and yours. She needs to feel safe to tell the truth.

Of course, the surrogacy story doesn’t add up. Could be partially true or a hastily conceived cover story.

The Evil Doer’s story could be partially true, maybe she was emotionally taken advantage of, betrayed, discarded, or blackmailed. Or, it could be to dissuade you from contacting them.

Regardless, the truth is not as important right now as is the fact that you’re both at very high risk and you are parents and primary caregivers to young children. [Full Stop]

I would recruit help from your closest confidants to help you two. I would get into immediate emergency individual counseling and, most importantly, you’re going to have to watch over each other.

I would control the anger for now and meter the interrogations. No polygraphs at this time. This is an extremely volatile situation with children involved. This woman has not only devastated you, she’s totally devastated herself. She’s not trapped in an affair bubble, she’s trapped in something far worse than that.

This needs to be handled delicately.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 5:46 PM, Saturday, February 5th]

New management wants to fix toxic office environment...

She starts? affair with peer...

She quit that job by the end of 2017, she left there very hurt and damaged. Wasn’t the only one. Most of her team was either fired or quit, with lots of other department heads getting fired or quitting too.

...afterwards, she has zero contact with any prior coworkers except subordinate.

Seems connected.

Also, subordinate staying in distant contact and having a cheating spouse of his own too. Perhaps he is the one she "tried" but could not go through with, or rather, maybe he said no but stays around distantly now in case she becomes avaliable after his marriage ends. Maybe peer was her second try, and she obviously did go through with that try. That makes her saying she tried but didn't a half truth at best (first try failed).

All speculation of course, but it seems like she had a script planned with diversions (you LOVE these kids, accept that all is well that ends well ) and half-truths. You knew just a little too much and didn't let it go like she probably expected/hoped. She knows you adore the kids, probably thought you would accept her taking one for the team if you ever eventually found out.

She may have used infertility concern as cover to cheat. That would mean her desire was there, she just wanted cover in case you found out. Even still, that cover is INCREDIBLY weak. If you see an infertility doctor, they aren't going to recommend IVF if it's been a few months trying. Try YEARS first. Her first go-to solution being lying/cheating on her spouse to get pregnant is insane in my opinion to express my thoughts mildly.

A side thought is that her telling you I love you but not sure I'm in love with you in the midst of the affair timeframe makes her story of it being a transactional action/plan only to get pregnant to give you kids seem implausible.

There is no valid excuse for her thinking you did not deserve to agree up front to raising another mans kids. That is seperate from your love for them, it goes to a core of your relationship with your wife and intimacy she gave to another man.

Since she is so good at sneaking/lying, it is very possible there are others. My own X had 5 APs.

If I were you, I'd consider telling her that like No Politics, lying is what almost nobody can forgive, the actual act aside. If she wants R, it will be work of heractions proving she wants the M. She needs to be 100% honest & let go of the outcome (demonstrating your needs matter to her), and go to IC as first steps. I'd tell her I'm going to seek the answers I need one way or another, and I am asking you to respect me enough to be the one to tell me.

I am incredibly sorry for your pain, I am glad you are so self-aware and know when you need to find help. This is an incredibly sad story, as others have said, you have a lot of people rooting/praying for you here, even if they don't chime in.

Stay strong friend.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:25 PM, Sunday, February 6th]

Hey SHSA, you have my sympathy! Please don't mind me asking what your angle is, I'm struggling to understand what your goal is. I don't want to upset and offend you. The way you describe your confrontation adds to my confusion, probably I get it wrong but I see you asking your wife in a relatively comforting way and a bit hesitantly imho, You are begging for truth from someone who very much wronged you and you are not following through with the hard questions. I don't want to criticize you or make you feel even more horrible as you feel right now, but as I said I don't get really the picture where you want to go.

Hugs

Her: I did what had to be done for us to have a family. It was painful and cost me a lot of money. You have no idea the hell I went through for this.
Me: What? What did you do? what do you mean?
Her: What had to be done. It was planned this way.

Wow. Some tough truths came out. Ouch, I'm so sorry. I had honestly hoped the tests were wrong. The implication seems to be there was infertility on your part, and she did this solely to have children. Yet, that really doesn't add up to me. If you were facing infertility as a couple, she owed it to you to find a solution, with you, as a couple. Not to randomly indulge in her own form of breeding program without your knowledge. That's not doing what had to be done to start a family, that's.. screwing another man not in your marriage and finding an excuse for it.

Sadly, although I anticipated it wasn't the case, I think her story is bullshit. This poker faced robotic reasoning about "she did what she had to do"? Nah, I'm not buying that. She didn't have to. I suspect there was an affair, and maybe some nasty collusion afterward, and maybe even blackmail, but that doesn't excuse her actions one bit. I believe she has rehearsed and rehearsed this eventuality with herself so she had her answer ready for the inevitable confrontation that was going to happen as soon as DNA kits became popularized.

If your wife is anticipating you will happily sweep this under the rug and just forget about the infidelity for your children's sake, she might be deluding herself. Adultery levies a terrible costs on marriages. She needs some form of individualized counseling, and I know you are getting some. I know you are doing the right things here. See a lawyer to cover your bases. I'm not advocating any course of action, because, frankly I think it might be beyond my pay grade. If I were you I wouldn't stop using the phrase "your children" with her because you truly are a victim of paternity fraud. Nobody is saying to abandon your children, I really couldn't in your shoes. However, there's no consequences and she isn't cooperating. Why should you hide what has happened under some niceties of conversation? She did what she did. They aren't your biological children. You werent' consulted. You are justified in feeling what your feeling right now. I'd be angry, too.

First I want to tell you that you handled the confrontation good under the circumstances, and that of course it's unrealistic to think you would get most of the truth in one go after yearss of betrayal.

As others have pointed out, the fact that "he suspects the kids are his" statement implies that OM more likely than not didn't know of/or agreed to any form of "sperm donor"scenario, plues she did it TWICE with him years apart fromt the first time (confirms LTA), the more likely scenario is they had an A, OBS found out and he dumped your WW like a hot rock in order to save his own M, she then hated him/them for the outcome. Also "stalking OM/OBS" on social media is typically a sign that she possibly still has lingering feelings for OM, instead of being afraid of those "dangerous and crazy people", what else could they do to "destroy your family"? tell you the truth? the same truth she's been hiding form you ? but you know this, your WW destroyed the family not them, they're not married to you she is, was blackmail involved ? maybe but that was after the fact.

I don't know how this M is salvageable, I always recommend D when it comes to LTA and serial cheaters, btw your WW admitted to trying to start an A with another OM so I would press her on this, there may be others, after all you mentioned that many other people got fired at the same time back then, however if you insist on giving R a chance here's some of the basics to improve your chances of a successful R that have stood the test of time:

1) Timeline: A complete written timeline of the A(s) is in order followed by a polygraph. If you are to forgive you at least should know what you're forgiving, this is a life altering event and the more info you have the better.

2) Full Exposure: At this point you don't even know when this LTA ended or if it ended at all, she's been stalking OM/OBS, a typical sign of lingering feelings, full exposure with family and close friends typically kills the "beautiful, romantic and exciting" aspects of an A and replaces them with pure shame and embarrassment, the more she hates her huge betrayal the more she will hate what she did instead of justifying it with the "I did what I had to do for the family". I also want to emphasize the fact that children have the right to know, for medical, honesty and moral reasons, they don't need all the gory details, just the facts, make sure you have a good therapist on stand by just in case, also you certainly could use IRL support from loved ones in your corner.

3) NC Forever: She needs to send an NC forever text to both OM, one that you approve and watch her hit "send", short and to the point (no sweet goodbyes). If child custody or chid support issues arise then those should be handled by your attorneys.

4) STD Test: Demand she gets tested for STDs/STIs (you should too), some STDs/STIs remain dormant for years, early detection is usually vital for effective treatment, plus the infamous "walk a shame" to the doctors office could help with remorse.

5) Full on demand access to her cell phone and all electronic devices and passwords FOREVER, no questions asked, don't accept the typically "it's my privacy" excuse/defense, the "my privacy should become "our privacy" when you tie the knot.

6)VAR: Voice Activated Recorder, you can easily order one oneline, about 50-75 US dollars, place one in her car under her seat, right now you should be deploying all available resources to try to get as much unfiltered truths and facts as possible, cheaters typically talk in their cars to APs and/or friends/confidants about their situation.

7)Therapy: She needs intense IC to find out her "whys" with someone who specializes in infidelity (very important), forget MC for now, at this point MC is usually a waste of time and money.

8) Consult a D attorney to know your legal options, while you're at it, ask about an enforceable post nup in case you later decide this was/is a deal breaker for you or she cheats again.

Again I still suggest D in your situation after such as daunting betrayal, your M has been a farce and your WW a fraudster, but I want to also emphasize the FACT that your children are not biologically yours, but you ARE their dad and they ARE your children.

Keep posting frequently, the collective wisdom of SI could help you go through this difficult situation.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 8:52 PM, Saturday, February 5th]

I am so sorry that your worst fears have been realized. You have been given really good guidance to help you navigate this mess. Additionally counseling to prepare your kids for this to come out. There are no secrets that last as you are sadly aware. The OM and his spouse are unpredictable as is your WW so guarding their well being is critical and will be for years. At some point the medical history of the OP will be necessary.

I know you are looking for care for your WW, don’t let your own well being lose importance. Do not be without a VAR at all times.

Thread jacking here. So many jumping on him to tell him to run, to go here, do this, do that, she’s cheating, she’s a liar, she’s horrible, she’s this, she’s that. There are two little boys in the next room who don’t have a clue about any of this. Their father cannot take off and disappear out of their house without screwing them up for the rest of their lives. He’s their father. He and his wife are going to have to figure out whether they are going to stay married, when to tell the children, how to tell the children, do they keep it a secret or not, do they separate or not, do they divorce or not.

Take a deep breath. Then find out why that couple is dangerous. You still don’t know if that is true. She needs to talk, and talk, until you know everything. Until then just breathe. This mess will be there tomorrow.

Thread jacking here.

Personally, I don't see it as a T/J. THIS is very much the direct subject of this thread.

So many jumping on him to tell him to run, to go here, do this, do that, she’s cheating, she’s a liar, she’s horrible, she’s this, she’s that. There are two little boys in the next room who don’t have a clue about any of this. Their father cannot take off and disappear out of their house without screwing them up for the rest of their lives.

Maybe too bluntly, but exactly how is this OP's problem. He may CHOOSE to remain in their lives, but he has absolutely NO RESPONSIBILITY (although the screwed up court system may say otherwise) morally to his WW or her children, and IMHO guilting him into that position is terribly wrong.

He’s their father.

With all due respect, and possibly too bluntly again ... NO, HE IS NOT. He was deceived into believing he was their father, and he may even choose to remain in their lives as a father figure or "Dad", but "Father" denotes an obligation, and again IMHO, he has no moral "obligation" towards his WW or her children.

OP was purposefully deceived by his WW and now finds himself in this terrible situation through NO FAULT of his own. That's why it is called Parental FRAUD. In effect, he is the victim of a crime that has cost him thousands of $$$, a large portion of the prime of his life, and quite likely his ability to ever have children of his OWN.

Now is not this time for OP (or any of us for that matter) to be thinking with his heart and use his head to choose the best path to protect HIS interests, because its for damn sure no one else has been.

Sorry for the vehemence, but this hits fairly close to home ... not directly, but close.

ShouldHaveStayedAsleep,

Your last message was deeply confusing. I'm not sure if your wife was refusing to tell you basic things, or if you are just in such an emotional state that you didn't write things clearly.

Some basic information that I would have thought you would have been able to obtain in a 2-3 hour talk:

1. Did she have an affair with him (dinner, dancing, movies, calling each other pet names, etc.)?

2. If she did not have an ongoing affair with him, but only met him for sex, why? Did she want the sex, or just the sperm?

3. How many times did they have sex (5, 25, 100, etc.-- not an exact number, just a ballpark).

4. Why are they bad people? What have the done that was bad? Are they threatening to do more that is bad? Have they broken any laws that you might be able to report to the police?

5. What did she mean by "it was planned this way"? Planned by whom? Normally, someone would say, "I planned it this way", if they were the one who made the plan.

She needs to answer your questions in detail, not vague generalities. If it were me, I would tell her something like, "Right now, the only path forward I see is divorce. If you want a divorce, then let's just get one. If you don't want a divorce, then the only chance we have of staying together is if you completely answer my questions in detail. You don't have the option of delaying by another day, you don't have the option of "thinking about it"; you've known the truth for all these years, you are fully capable of answering all of these questions truthfully and immediately, and if you refuse to do so, I'll know that whatever you may claim you want, you actually prefer a divorce to telling me the truth. If our marriage is that unimportant to you, we shouldn't be married."

[This message edited by Sordid at 11:22 PM, Saturday, February 5th]

he may even choose to remain in their lives as a father figure or "Dad", but "Father" denotes an obligation, and again IMHO, he has no moral "obligation" towards his WW or her children.

This is so wrong, on so many levels. Every adult has multiple moral obligations to every child within his ken. You see a child getting stolen, or beaten up, in public? You have a moral obligation to try to intervene, record, or stop the crime, no matter whose child it is. That's just one example. Here, SHSA has lived with and loved these kids as a father since their birth. To disavow them and kick them out of his life out of anger toward their (very fucked up) mother, that would be a moral violation. Period.

Just curious - if your wife "planned" to use the OM as the biodad… why would she have been so nonchalant about you taking the DNA tests?
That just does not make sense to me. I can’t think if a wayward that would not have at least TRIED to talk you out of taking the kids DNA, or who would not be freaking out while waiting for the results. Wayward are notorious for this… for scrambling and acting like a chicken w/o a head to keep the secrets going.

Someone who is sneaky enough to conceive not one, but two, children with another person, is smart enough to make at least SOME effort to thwart the attempt to test their DNA.

Some very good questions that you need to addressed.
One day at a time