SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

ShouldHaveStayedAsleep

Your situation is really bad, and I am worried about YOU. You have stated in your post you suffer from some mental health issues. That is one more reason to get real tests even if the evidence is as bad as it looks.

If you find this situation devolves to the worst-case scenario, and it could, are YOU going to be ok, do you have any family or friends you can depend on. Do you have a plan for your mental health? Probably should consider her mental health too, but I think the likely AP is D or getting D. That adds another layer of troubles.

Please do your best to drink water, eat anything and sleep.

Sincerely,

Organic

[This message edited by Organic2003 at 1:14 PM, Thursday, February 3rd]

Go with Bigger’s advice. Not knowing is going to drive you crazy. With the other son’s DNA it looks like solid proof.

BUT, I’m going to suggest you be kind and soft spoken as possible. I am amazed that we find so many screw ups in places and in people that we have taken for granted as being 100% positive. A friend of mine inherited a great deal of money seven years ago, she contacted the IRS and made payments. She talked to someone on the phone and they told her she was payed up. One month later she got a letter stating that she owed that money. She called back and they said no. Then six months later she gets a letter stating she owes another amount of money. She scrambled around and found all the necessary pieces of paper. She writes another and it never clears the bank. Then she calls and they say they don’t know where the check is right now but looking at her account she owes nothing.
These places that use DNA tests are run by human beings, so when I say I still hope there’s a tiny amount of "maybe" to give your wife the benefit of the doubt might make you able to breathe.

Lets play some make-belief:

For a minute imagine your wife opened an envelope sent to you from some woman you have never heard of before that you are the father of her 5-year-old child. The reason she’s delayed telling you is mainly that she couldn’t find you until she got the results of a DNA test sent to some generic ancestry internet site, but now she wants you to accept paternity. She clearly states that if you refuse she will seek legal action to confirm paternity so this is clearly something you two can’t ignore.

Now we can imagine 2 scenarios:
One is that you KNOW that since you met your wife 20 years ago you have NEVER strayed. You KNOW this. You have never had intercourse with another woman, gone to strip-clubs or anything of that nature. There is no way in this whole universe that you could be the father.

Two is that five or six years ago at the Glee Club Convention in Las Vegas you might have had a good time with that pretty blond, but you used a condom or were careful or just simply extremely drunk and don’t remember having sex but maaaayyyyybeeee…

How do you expect your wife to react?
Let’s start with One. Let’s imagine that is the truth. Do you think that if you are adamant about your innocence and even suggest a proper, official and reputable DNA test and that you are willing to go to court to prove your fidelity and disprove paternity that your wife will automatically divorce you and move on? If you are on the phone calling your attorney and asking how you can prove the child isn’t yours? What vein to cut, what swab to stick up a nostril?
Do you think she will tell you to ignore the letter and accusation and just move on as if nothing had happened?

I’m guessing the normal person – the average you – the average her – would accept your story for the time being, but demand confirmation. For example by DNA. The normal person would think that possibly the woman is insane, probably wrong and definitely misguided. But still… need that final proof that the husband is telling the truth.

Let’s imagine the later scenario Two.
Due to DNA you KNOW you might be screwed… Think the smart move would be to lie? Think the reasonable response might be to share the truth? That MAYBE the woman has a case? Or do you think it would be smart to lie and then discuss with your wife why refusing the quick and easy solution of offering a DNA sample to disprove the connection makes sense? Think the truth really won’t come out?

In either situation would you expect her to file right away? Without maybe having the confirmation that the child is yours? Would you expect her to move on as if nothing had happened?

Now turn it round to your situation.
You have the result of a mid-reputable company that indicates that maybe – just maybe – one of your children isn’t fathered by you.
Isn’t it perfectly reasonable to let your wife know and tell her you are willing to doubt the results rather than her word (after all you have been married for 20 years…) but that you will be sending samples to a more reputable company so you have final results.
Isn’t it perfectly reasonable that you ask her if there is any reason you shouldn’t bother sending the results (other than some broad statement that you don’t have to because you are the father).
Shouldn’t she be willing to put this issue to bed?

Also, DNA is one thing. Parenting is another.

I understand that finding out you're not the biological father can affect your parenting. Finding out you're not the bio father can have a monstrous effect on your parenting, but it doesn't have to. If you're not the bio father, that's not the kids' fault. You may find you love them, and you may find that you still think they're 'yours'.

IOW, whatever the reality is, this is not the end of your life. You still are alive. You still have your strengths (and weaknesses, too, alas), your kids still love you.

Also IOW, I also vote for following Bigger's advice, and I wish you the best.

I can't agree enough with Bigger.

You may very well be right, but you are seemingly moving ahead full speed with your mind already set. Try to open up to the idea that, based on the little information that you have given us, that there is a significant chance that there is an error. I'm not even saying innocent until proven guilty; I'm saying that she doesn't have to be guilty until proven innocent, either.

Follow Bigger's advice, and take methodical steps. There's plenty of time to take more drastic measures after further information is gathered.

I'm back with a post about the same message.

Reach out to member on 23andMe who can help decipher these results. (PM and I'll try and find someone) They should be able to find surnames that could lead back to the OM. I say this so if this is all true you can be ahead of your wife's answers to who he is and see if she lies to you about who he is. Not great for R.

My friend who traces DNA is an average person, not a geneticist or police detective. They have helped quite a lot of people. There are others like them. So many people have taken these tests it's very likely the OM has a close relative who has taken a test. Could be and uncle, cousin. If he is married with kids the DNA will trace back to her relatives side. The tree branches will lead back to the OM.

If your children are not yours and you want to stay with your wife you will most likely need her to be transparent about the OM. From your posts you seem to have some idea but no solid proof. She might lie and say it was a ONS, well two ONS with a stranger but the DNA trace could point to someone you trusted.

Again as other's have pointed out, you still are their parent no matter how this goes.

What you have shared could be compared to getting a phone-call that a close relative has been in a traffic accident and is at St Johns Hospital and asking you to get there.
That’s all you know.

You don’t know if they got the wrong number, if it’s life or death or if the relative simply needs a ride home because of a sprained foot.

Your last post… It’s you looking for your car-keys while phoning an undertaker to find the best price of coffins, while googling florists for flower arrangements while wondering what to offer at the wake.
All this before knowing what you are dealing with…

You hit the nail right on the head Bigger. I'm perfectly aware I'm getting way ahead of myself here, realized it right after I posted.

Here's the thing about the tests taken:

The test says none of the kids are mine.
The test says the kids are full brothers, offspring of the same man and woman. Even though one of their samples could have been "wrong", the odds of them still matching as 100% full DNA brothers are next to 0.
I collected, packed, and mailed all 3 samples.
My results show dozens of recognizable DNA relatives and it's filled with people who share my family names, parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents' family names. Their results show none of this. That means the odds of my sample being processed "wrong" are next to 0.

I realize direct-to-consumer DNA tests are nowhere as accurate as one would wish and most definitely not a replacement for a proper paternity test, however, I stand by the 1 in a trillion odds this result would be any different after a second, proper test done.

I take your suggestions on how to approach my wife at heart. I'm not going to accuse her of anything, I'm keeping an open mind and still cling to hope.

My results show dozens of recognizable DNA relatives and it's filled with people who share my family names, parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents' family names. Their results show none of this. That means the odds of my sample being processed "wrong" are next to 0.

Any recognizable names from the kids side? You might have to FB their surnames, or white pages search to find relatives who you do recognize. You want to be ahead of your wife's answers in case she lies.

Thank you Bigger, I really appreciate you taking the time to think this through with me.

You have the result of a mid-reputable company that indicates that maybe – just maybe – one of your children isn’t fathered by you.

It's actually both children, the report on the other child gives the same result as the first one.

Isn’t it perfectly reasonable to let your wife know and tell her you are willing to doubt the results rather than her word (after all you have been married for 20 years…) but that you will be sending samples to a more reputable company so you have final results.
Isn’t it perfectly reasonable that you ask her if there is any reason you shouldn’t bother sending the results (other than some broad statement that you don’t have to because you are the father).
Shouldn’t she be willing to put this issue to bed?

Absolutely! And that's why even though logic points one way I keep an open mind and am prepared to listen carefully to everything she says or doesn't say. Body language speaks volumes too.

If I could offer one bit of advice, it would be to listen, and process. Then listen more, and process more. The urge in a setting like this is to vomit out the stream of conscious thoughts and feelings you have. You need to resist that urge. Instead, listen to what she has to say, critically, and ask questions based on what she says.

Thank you for this. Makes all the sense in the world

Another thing to think about OP, if your wife becomes very distraught during your confrontation, you probably should have a plan to get her some support, short term and long term. Her family, her best friend, therapist, pastor, etc.

I'm saying this for a couple reasons - your 20 year marriage and possible affairs 10 years ago, this could hit her very hard. There have been a few stories here at SI where wives who cheated in their long time marriages tried to hurt themselves after a confrontation like yours.

I was thinking of this last night. Yes, I need to be prepared to lay a safety net for her in the likely case this knocks her down badly.
I've already started looking for trauma/crisis specialists around town.

If these aren't your kids, your situation is getting very close to beyond this forum's pay grade. You asked how bad your story would rate - very bad....

You're going to be tested like nothing else in your life. Any man might go half mad with rage and grief finding out his kids aren't his. Don't be afraid to find a good therapist to help you deal with it all. Courage to you.

Yeah... I've searched high and low and have yet to find similar stories to mine.
I'm pretty sure there are tons of it out there, with the advent of direct-to-consumer DNA testing, infidelity statistics, and modern world life there's got to be a lot of similar stories out there.
I also believe this kind of scenario is among the most devastating, humiliating experiences a "regular"(?) man can experience, ergo very few men are willing to share their experience online.

Try to be as humane as you can to those two kids. They know you as their father.

I love those kids to death. I would give my life for them.

If your children's DNA tests showed that they are 100% siblings and that they do not match with anyone on your side of the family who has taken the same test, including yourself, it is time for that conversation with your wife. Do not wait one second longer. I am very sorry you are going through what seems to be this horrible betrayal. I don't know how in the hell you could want to stay with her one minute longer if the most likely explanation becomes the truth, but that's me.

Please immediately seek professional help to get you through what will most likely be a horrible revelation. Confide in a best friend or family member who can be with you every step of the way as you process what happened. Do not do this alone. If you feel the need to have someone with you when you confront your wife, do it. Minimally, have that person on standby. God speed.

My friend who traces DNA is an average person, not a geneticist or police detective. They have helped quite a lot of people. There are others like them. So many people have taken these tests it's very likely the OM has a close relative who has taken a test. Could be and uncle, cousin. If he is married with kids the DNA will trace back to her relatives side. The tree branches will lead back to the OM.

Thank you for your offer redfish, however, I'm not anywhere near ready to go that route. Not yet at least.
I'll keep it in mind depending on how things go with my wife over the next few days or weeks.

I've never seen a thread on this forum so hellbent on giving a BS a hit of hopium.

SHSA, you know what's up. The DNA tests show them as full brothers according to your updates. Your DNA test has you accurately linked to your family. There is essentially no question that you aren't the father of either child and they share a father that is a LTAP. It's much closer to the 1 in a trillion you have stated than the "get a real DNA test to confirm before you go off halfcocked".

Yes, major life altering decisions don't have to be purely based on the first set of results. Get retested if you want, but it's the same as buying one lottery ticket and imagining it will actually change your life because you could win the jackpot.

Good luck with your confrontation tomorrow.

Please try to find a therapist. You need to also lean on your friends and family (parents/siblings?) at this time to help you through this truly awful situation. We internet friends can't do much for you.

You need to be heard, you need to vent, you need to be told it's going to be ok (even if it's gonna suck massively) by your real support system.

So let's assume you divorce your wife immediately. On the issue of paternity, you will need a court approved test. Why not do it now? You might avoid future pain and grief and any argument that the test you got is flawed.

OP has indicated he is in Europe, where genetic paternity doesn't matter at all (legally) and paternity tests are basically banned.

EDIT: I jumped to conclusions a bit. OP states: "She didn't know much about them [23andme kits] since we don't live in the States and here they are not even sold, it's not a thing here, not yet."

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 7:56 PM, Thursday, February 3rd]

...You have stated in your post you suffer from some mental health issues. That is one more reason to get real tests even if the evidence is as bad as it looks.

If you find this situation devolves to the worst-case scenario, and it could, are YOU going to be ok, do you have any family or friends you can depend on. Do you have a plan for your mental health?

Thank you for your heartfelt reply.

Yes, I have dealt with anxiety, panic, and depression before. I'm very well versed in those topics.
I'm a problem solver by nature and whenever I find myself in a situation that's above me, reading, learning, and researching have been my go-to approach. I can easily recognize the early stages of depression, anxiety and panic. It can't take me by surprise and for years I have been at peace with the idea to have myself committed to a walk-in clinic if the situation so calls for it.

My psychiatrist back then told me traditional therapy would never work with me, that unorthodox approaches were necessary. In essence, something about my brain not being traditionally wired. I'm currently seeking trauma/crisis/grief specialist around town for me and my wife, hoping traditional methods work on me this time around.

As for family and friends to depend on, no, I have no family I can rely on for something like this. My best friend (and he's the only one whom I can see myself confiding in) lives 3,000 km away and has always been a "you can't trust women" kind of guy all his life. He's never been married, no kids so I'm not sure his input would be beneficial to me.
That being said, I was thinking that in the event the talks with my wife turn ugly I could ask for 1 or 2 weeks off at work and take a road trip by myself, maybe even visiting the aforementioned friend.

BUT, I’m going to suggest you be kind and soft spoken as possible.

Absolutely.

These places that use DNA tests are run by human beings, so when I say I still hope there’s a tiny amount of "maybe" to give your wife the benefit of the doubt might make you able to breathe.

I'm keeping an open mind and even willing to hear fantasy scenarios worthy of a korean soap opera like, my wife realizing at some point I am most likely infertile and going the donor route without telling me in order to protect my feelings.

Any recognizable names from the kids side? You might have to FB their surnames, or white pages search to find relatives who you do recognize. You want to be ahead of your wife's answers in case she lies.

Yes and no. The names are far too generic and common. Think of Smith, Johnson, Miller in the States. Mine are far less common.

Like I said in a previous post, 99% it's one of my 2 candidates, I know their full names. I have been able to trace one on FB and got a phone number. The other is a ghost, have found 0 traces of him online, but found a group picture with him on our pics archives.

I wish you well in discussing this with your W. You’ve received lots of good advice on how to do that.

Once it happens, I recommend you don’t leave. Even if you feel like running. Sure if you need to take a trip to clear your head, do so. But don’t move out. Give yourself time to stay and talk and process.

It sounds like you have a wife who does love you now. She has probably done an awful thing in her past that mAy be a deal breaker for you. Just take your time and work thru how you feel and what you need. Find a good trauma therapist and work with them for a few months before making any big decisions.

As for your kids, and I do believe they are your kids whether biologicallly of not, please know that a sperm donor does not make a father. And there are 100s of thousands of fathers who are not biologically connected to their children.

These kids are yours whether their DNA matches you or not, and it sounds like you are the best parent they have. Don’t let that change no matter what happens with your wife.

I wish you well in this very difficult time.