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I could use a little perspective here, some thoughts and perhaps a 2x4 or two.

I always used to pride myself on the gifts I gave WW. I tried to be thoughtful and generous, help throw big parties for birthdays, etc. Since DDay2 3 years ago, it's been difficult for me to give gifts to WW. Her A (er, several of them) spanned important events celebrations for us and I can't help but feel taken for granted. Spending so much time or effort celebrating WW is triggering, when I just think about how much time and effort I spent celebrating her before while I was being made a fool and she was off blowing someone else.

So, over the lats 3 years I've recognized I need to find a middle ground. If WW is putting in the work, we need to be able to celebrate each other, even if things aren't ever going to be the way they were before.

That all said, we put a $100 limit on Christmas for each other this year. I used some of my own money to go over that limit, partly because I didn't want to buy crappy versions of things she wanted--I wanted to treat her to the high quality thing. Although I can't honestly write sappy things in cards anymore, buying thoughtful and useful gifts is a way that I can feel like I am putting in effort and caring about her needs, without betraying my own feelings.

Her gifts to me were right at the $100 mark. Most of it went to a thing that was kind of sappy and commemorated important dates in our past, like our wedding date and the date we met. This immediately made me sad and she could tell. We chatted about it briefly but I didn't really want to ruin Christmas by getting into it and she said she didn't want to be sad on Christmas or feel bad that I didn't get good gifts...so we hung it on the wall and moved on.

With all affairs, it tarnishes things like anniversary and wedding dates, right? And in my case, she actually sent clips of our honeymoon video to her AP. I've told her I can never think of our wedding without then thinking about our honeymoon, and thus her A--which she somehow doesn't quite understand. She wishes I could compartmentalize things the way she has.

Obviously, I know that she should be more sensitive about these things and I need to talk to her about that. But also realistically, I can't expect that we'll spend the rest of our life ignoring our wedding date or other important dates, right? And this WAS a thoughtful gift that she had custom made. I think I need to find a way to reconcile the fact that we ARE still married and should celebrate that, while not feeling like I'm rugsweeping or ignoring my feelings. And I'm just not sure how to do that. My wedding date being a trigger is pretty damn difficult to deal with.

Any thoughts? This kind of has my head spinning. It doesn't help that this is affair season--D-Day is tomorrow, which makes Christmas extra difficult.

TwiceWounded

She wishes I could compartmentalize things the way she has

Really? She wishes you were more like her?

Perhaps you should tell her that she is right, you should be more like her, then ask her when it would be best for you to go out and have three affairs.

Her thinking is way off here, she should have the same integrity that you have.

She should wish that she would not be able to compartmentalize things the way that she did, and apparently still does.

I think I need to find a way to reconcile the fact that we ARE still married and should celebrate that, while not feeling like I'm rugsweeping or ignoring my feelings. And I'm just not sure how to do that.

You don't need a 2X4, you've summed up the difficulty of R rather well.

I can only relate my own experience, I'm no expert on anything other than that.

At some point, I had to figure out what kind of marriage I wanted and needed in order to stay. I know for you, those young kids are a big part of why you're trying to make this work.

My kids were much older when my wife confessed to her A.

So, I had to figure out if I could 'celebrate' us again too.

My wife's LTA kicked off the physical part (went from a six month EA to a PA) less than two weeks after our fifth anniversary.

Our celebrations are more low key, but we decided to keep those dates important in that we have survived something most couples do not survive. That we care enough about each other to rebuild it into something more than what we had before.

...even if things aren't ever going to be the way they were before.

But the way it was before didn't exactly work out. For you or me.

We don't put the A in a compartment, we acknowledge that as the adversity we're conquering as a team, to build a better team.

It's still different. We just find that our new world keeps us both on our toes. Our communication is far better than pre-A. Our care and consideration is far better than before the horror show. Our desire to triumph over all of that is a unique bond to beat the odds.

I focus on the intent of my wife's gifts, and man I got some awkward stuff when she was reaching out. She could tell those backfired and she aimed for more subtle items later on.

Ultimately, you celebrate what you think is important to you. If it's a new 'relationship' day/anniversary or the holidays -- pick and choose based on what YOU need to keep healing.

I'm not as sappy as I once was, but I do pick moments to make sure my wife knows I appreciate the work she is doing. It really does become about the marriage you want to have. Life is short, aim high.

Your feelings are legit, and you should not doubt that.

No you shouldn't compartmentalize. She betrayed you in multiple ways over an extended period of time, of course you are still struggling.

It is a discussion that needs to be had.

As far as the date issue? I don't have an exact answer for you. But maybe consider either renewing your vows to each other once you feel R is complete. Either on your original wedding day or maybe starting completely over with a new date.

While what she did would be considered thoughtful, I find it concerning that she didn't have enough forethought to recognize this could be triggery for you....

There are many threads here by BSs who no longer celebrate anniversaries and other holidays because they reek of infidelity. A respectful, remorseful WW would make an effort to be sensitive to the BHs feelings about that sort of thing, and honor those feelings. This tells you what sort of WW you have. Still thinking of her wants. Still pushing her agenda.

But also realistically, I can't expect that we'll spend the rest of our life ignoring our wedding date or other important dates, right?

Realistically you can. You aren’t going to ever forget them, and can’t ignore them, but you do have the right not to celebrate them if the pain of the celebration negates the happy feelings you are supposed to have.

We never celebrated anniversaries after her affair. In fact I lost thousands of dollars on a trip that was scheduled prior to her affair for our 25th. Later, I couldn’t ignore the date, but I never got her anything, and I certainly wasn’t going to sit through an awkward dinner, as the day for me just brought sadness of what we lost from that happy day to the point where we had gotten to.

If Birthdays and holidays aren’t tarnished, celebrate those. If later you feel like you are ready, then tell her. But for now tell her the dates you have anguish over shouldn’t be celebrated.

I’m sure she won’t be happy. However if she is truly committed to your healing she will honor your wishes

My H had his affair during the year of our 25th wedding anniversary. He texted her as we were finishing our couples massage.

I was pissed when I found out!!!!

That Christmas or the following Chris he gave me a gift certificate for the same spa. I told him I probably would not use it. Duh!!!!!! It never dawned on him.

Probably the same for your wife. It never crossed her mind.

Stupid cheaters!

Of course, everyone here is pretty much right… no, nobody should be compartmentalizing. And yes, the way she can compartmentalize isn’t healthy, but it’s somewhat understandable… given that her recent A was while she was pregnant with our firstborn, compartmentalizing some of that shame is really the only way she keeps going and can keep being a good mother for her (now two) children. She’d like need to be institutionalized if she felt the full burden of that shame, honestly. Anyway.

We’ve considered renewing our vows, but I’m not ready—partly because I don’t want to let go. I don’t want to give her the feeling of a “fresh start.” Maybe I’m not convinced that new vows would mean anything, after the first set so clearly didn’t mean anything to her. I know that means she still has work to do.

I get why so many couples don’t celebrate special dates anymore. The thing is… WW is in her early 30s. She doesn’t want to spend the rest of her life skipping over birthdays or other special dates. I understand this… is that a fair price to pay for all her infidelity? Of course it’s small compared to the lifetime of pain that she inflicted on me. But I also understand she wants a marriage where she CAN celebrate those things, and in good faith R I should try to accommodate that in some way. Post-A marriage can’t be all about me, all the time. And yes, I get why her thinking with the present was about her—her hoping things could be the same, and hoping those dates were special and meaningful, and not seeing that it would be triggering for me. But she tried, and I don’t want to make her feel bad for it… we’re trying to R here, not D.

I DO think there’s something to the fact we’re still together after all this, and that can be celebrated. She’s put in a lot of effort, even if she still has a long way to go. And I’ve put an insane amount of effort in. We’ve all seen couples D over much less.

But still, maybe grieving the specialness of our wedding day is something that I have to come to grips with… and she does too. Clearly she hasn’t.

[This message edited by TwiceWounded at 4:15 PM, December 27th (Friday)]

With all affairs, it tarnishes things like anniversary and wedding dates, right?

It depends. My BS wanted us to remarry on our original wedding date, so obviously it wasn’t too tarnished for him.

However, you feel how you feel. Nothing wrong with your feelings.

Gently, you say you violated your agreement on the spending limit for gifts. Why on earth did you do that? And isn't that some sort of compartmentalizing? If I were part of that sort of agreement with my W, and she spent more than she agreed to spend, I'd be angry.

As to anniversaries and birthdays, it took me a few years before I could celebrate them, and I didn't celebrate them until after I had seen a lot of change in my W.

IIRC, the first anniversary I celebrated was 45 months after d-day. The first real birthday gift I gave my W was 36 months after d-day, but the gift was ballroom dancing lessons for both of us, and wanted those lessons more than she did.

... I go back to violating your agreement. Are you giving too much? Are you not demanding enough from your W?

How has she changed since her last A?

Your feelings are valid, however, she needs to hear them. I do think she was trying to give you a thoughtful gift. Did she miss the mark because she missed the clues this might be triggers or are you not sharing authentically with her. My husband isn’t perfect but he does keep trying. So I keep trying and at the very heart of our rebuilt foundation is that we discuss ALL of our feelings. It makes our relationship deeper and our response to each other greater. We are very in tune with each other because we talk about everything. My advice to you would talk to her about your feelings then ask her feelings about the gift. Ask her to imagine your perspective and you imagine hers. Anyway that’s what has worked for us.

Sounds like you two have something in common: you are thinking about her needs and she is thinking about her needs. Hmmmmm.

I'm heading to D now, so my two cents are just that. I did go through one anniversary while in in attempted R. I marked it on my calendar as "Do whatever the fuck you want day". I made it clear to my WW that she was not to mark that day ever again and to make no mention of it. She was also instructed to inform a family members to do the same and the reason why.

I also took down wedding photos. She had ruined the day for me so why should I put myself through any more pain? Had we R successfully, I would have stuck to this as a tangible reminder of the legacy of betrayal. Vindictive? Not really, since she so graciously gifted me many reminders of her affair. If she is truly pentant, she would welcome her albatross.

Her Christmas gift reeks of rug sweeping. IMho, it is an attempt to return to normalcy. The old normal is gone. Find a new normal that YOU can live with. She should be more concerned about you rather than herself.

As BS’s sometimes we get too sensitive .. I know I am as I look at gifts my WS bought me for Christmas over the past few years and what he bought OW .. I first got angry .. when I found out .. he bought me an original art painting And got a copy of another of the artist’s paintings for OW .. i got a gold necklace .. she got the silver .. I got 3 scarfs .. she got one .. he chose what I liked and gave it to OW ., my taste .. is what she has to live with in her gifts . I am angry that he bought her gifts .. but accept that he did .. this past Christmas he went and chose some nice gifts for me clothes that I love .. and some small gifts that showed he was thinking of me .. not OW.

We are trying to make a new relationship with our WS or FwS we have to look at the positives.. not get negative.. if our S is trying .. give them credit .. look at the positive about anniversaries.. we had good memories focus on those memories that is what is important and that is what I think your WS was trying to do .

Just an FYI .. I understand about birthday triggers .. my WS spent my birthday with Ow bought her stuff and I didn’t get a card or phone call .. he also took Ow on a business trip over our anniversary and took her to my favorite city in Europe . My last d day was on out 50 th anniversary.. so I get triggers about special days .. next year I have to deal with our anniversary ., but haven’t made it a special day in the past 19 years so will not be special this coming year .. it is a day because of that day I have a wonderful family and my grAndchildren .. that is my joy and focus.. what keeps me going!

[This message edited by dancin-gal at 1:28 PM, December 29th (Sunday)]

I agree with Sisoon about the price point. It’s like when my sister and I agreed not to buy gifts and she did anyway. I got her nothing (as per our agreement) and I looked like an asshole. Why make the agreement if you’re going to violate it by going over?

As far as dates - it’s very hard the first few years, but I had to make a choice to overcome that. My anniversary is my anniversary. Since we’re reconciled and still married - I’m celebrating it. Yes, some of our 23 years are tarnished with gunk but we persevered and worked really hard to stay married. If that’s not a reason to celebrate then I don’t know what is. It’s easy to stay married when there’s no problems.

I’m not giving you shit for your trigger...that happens and is to be expected. I am kinda giving you shit for pointing out your wife stuck to the $100 limit. That’s a good thing.

TwiceWounded,

I'm glad you posted your question. I'm still early on in this process, but I wonder the same thing. I don't forsee *ever* celebrating our anniversary. My WH still refers back to the good years we had, but to me they're all negated by his A. In my mind the M before the A doesn't matter any more. I'm willing to move on and build something new, but looking back w fondness is just too much if a reach.

Maybe someday you'll feel truly happy and truly loved. Maybe then you can renew your vows. So you could think of now as the courtship phase. She might like that idea. Both courting. You could even propose the idea w flowers, let her know you want to move on together, but that you need to put the past away.

Maybe you could discuss and agree on NEW dates and remake the custom gift (kids birth's, etc.), with blanks for future special dates.

[This message edited by keet at 2:43 PM, December 29th (Sunday)]

Sisoon and Sassy—you’re right about the spending limits. The thing is, in the past we’d both regularly go over our limit (I’m not saying it was smart, just that we did). In hindsight it sets us up for disappointment and misaligned expectations. The reason why I did it is because I know I’ve been reluctant to celebrate anything with her since D-Day and that has been a point of contention during 3 years in R. So I was me making an effort to celebrate better, to actual do something nice for her . Then I got grumpy at the result for various reasons, and here I am. Her birthday about 18 months after D-Day, she said something like “you can’t just expect me to sit here and never celebrate another birthday for the rest of my life.” Was she being selfish and thinking about herself? Absolutely. But did she have a point? Yes. In R, we can’t realistically expect our WS to be happy staying in a marriage that never gets to experience some of the simple joys that everyone else does… can we? There has to be some happy medium. But the gentle 2x4 has been noted.

How has she changed since her last A?

She has done a lot of work. She went to 1 or 2 years of counseling. Discovered she is an SA and went to SLAA for a time. Went full NC with all APs and never looked back. Has been honest about any backsliding into wayward behavior. Gave me full access to phone, bank accounts, and anything else I wanted. Has been seeing a psych regularly and has been diligent about taking her prescribed meds. Began working very hard to support our family—earning more income than me the past few years (a far cry from early in our marriage). In all respects, she shaped up very quickly. Many BS would love to see a WW take responsibility, grow up, and throw themselves into R the way she did.

The thing is… something is still missing. She’s corrected her own behavior, but somehow she’s never been able to truly connect with the damage she did to me or see how deeply the pain cuts. She is surprised when I show that I’m in pain 3 years later. She blows off my trauma as something I still need to talk to a counselor about (I’m still in IC, weekly, 3 years later…) or that I should get on antidepressants for, without recognizing how it comes off as tone deaf.

I think her gift to me represents that tone-deafness. She can hope that I’ll want to celebrate our anniversary date, and to her it still feels special. But to me it’s a reminder that her vows on that day meant nothing to her, she had multiple affairs, and sent videos of our honeymoon antics to one of her APs. I’m just not sure how to feel ok about that day yet.

I appreciate everyone’s input and suggestions. Maybe someday I’ll want to renew our vows, or someday I’ll look at our anniversary date and appreciate how far we’ve come. But for now, it still feels like the reason we’re still together post-D-Day is solely because I decided to stay against all odds… is that really worth celebrating?

somehow she’s never been able to truly connect with the damage she did to me or see how deeply the pain cuts.

What can she do to show that?

Have you and she ever taken the 5 love language self-test? If so, what were the results? If not, I recommend taking it.

The thing is… something is still missing. She’s corrected her own behavior, but somehow she’s never been able to truly connect with the damage she did to me or see how deeply the pain cuts. She is surprised when I show that I’m in pain 3 years later. She blows off my trauma as something I still need to talk to a counselor about (I’m still in IC, weekly, 3 years later…) or that I should get on antidepressants for, without recognizing how it comes off as tone deaf.

If your wife is a sex addict, this is pretty common, actually.

Sex addiction is about avoiding emotional intimacy.

Also, if your wife is really an addict, she should be working her recovery all the time. Not just sometimes.

Addiction needs to be tended to, like diabetes. Someone who exercises and eats right for three years so they don't need insulin suddenly isn't cured of diabetes, right? It's not as if they can suddenly stop eating right and exercising and expect to keep their blood sugars in check. Nope. The blood sugars will get out of control again, and the problems will resurface.

My husband has been in and out of recovery for his SA for 12 years or so now.

After 12 years, I would say 1/3 of the time, he expresses actual remorse and a little empathy. 2/3rds of the time, it's just regret.

My experience is not uncommon.

You might benefit from reading through the resources in the "I can relate" page for spouses of SAs.

What can she do to show that?

Have you and she ever taken the 5 love language self-test? If so, what were the results? If not, I recommend taking it.

It seems like this should be an easy question, but it’s not. I’ve never been able to really pinpoint anything concrete she can do. It’s more of a feeling, which isn’t fair to either of us. It “feels” like she doesn’t understand. It “feels” like she doesn’t want to hear about what I’m saying. Over the years her responses to me describing my feelings have gotten more curt, and closer to an “I don’t know what to say, you’ve told me this before” type of response. What I need for her is to NOT do that. To instead repeat the caring platitudes like she did in the first 6 months. Would that help? I don’t know. “I’m sorry” still rings so hollow, but it may be because I just don’t believe that she’s sorry, instead she’s impatient that “I’m sorry” doesn’t make me feel better.

We’ve taken the 5 long languages. Pre-A I was Physical Touch (not sex... just hugs, holding hands, the comfort of each others' presence) and she was Words of Affirmation. Post-A, I no longer wanted physical touch (makes sense, she she used her powers of “physical touch” to make other people happy instead of me...), so I felt pretty adrift and neither of us knew how she could make me feel better. Now I’m probably Words of Affirmation/acts of service.

Secondtime—thanks for pointing out those resources. I haven’t spent much time over there, and believe it or not never stumbled into those links before. I’ll check it out. Historically, my problem has been that most resources are aimed clearly at SA husbands—there is a very shallow pool of info for husbands of SA wives. That itself can feel emasculating (I’ve literally said aloud “stop calling me a wife, god dammit!!” as I’ve read SA articles). But I do need invest more in SA resources.

She is definitely a SA (or "love addict" but it's rooted in the same place and has the same effect, basically). I have concerns that, even though WW has learned how to avoid SA behavior, she’s not actively working on herself anymore. My IC has pointed out that she’s likely replaced her SA with a work addiction instead, and is using that to avoid shame or deeper analysis of herself. She’s in a “I’m fixed, I know how to feed the good wolf and not have affairs anymore” stage.

But if I talked to her directly about this, she’d ask what more I wanted her to do… and I’m not sure. Maybe going with me to counseling? I don’t know.

After 12 years, I would say 1/3 of the time, he expresses actual remorse and a little empathy. 2/3rds of the time, it's just regret.

This feels accurate. She can still compartmentalize and get vastly more upset about some trivial work things (which, again, is likely her new addiction) than she honestly ever got about the trauma she inflicted on me.

[This message edited by TwiceWounded at 2:04 PM, January 2nd (Thursday)]