SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I recently did two sermons, two weeks in a row, on a Biblical view of marriage, fidelity and infidelity. I went very in-depth on the subject matter.

The congregation was very attentive and responsive. But toward the very end of the message, I told them that infidelity was so prevalent that there is a high likelihood that everyone there had either committed adultery or was a victim of adultery.

Surprisingly, a total hush fell over the crowd. You would've thought that I had stepped on their grave. People looked around and then put their heads down in silence.

As an aside, Biblically, the position on adultery is different than in the secular world. The secular world requires action, but the Biblical world requires nothing more than thought (in other words if you look at a man or woman with lust (a non-partner) you have already committed adultery in your heart.

I must admit that prior to my WWs affair, I thought infidelity was rare and only happened to other people. But since coming to SI, it seems to me that we are in an epidemic of adultery.

Several people approached me afterward and asked me how I knew.

The fact is, I don't know. But I do think that if it can happen to me (a victim) it can happen to anyone else.

In your experience with infidelity did you suddenly find out that infidelity was more prevalent than you ever considered prior to your circumstance?

Your thoughts?

[This message edited by 36yearsgone at 2:11 PM, January 27th (Wednesday)]

You can get a lot of different answers from "studies" on the 'net. An example:

According to the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy, national surveys indicate that 15 percent of married women and 25 percent of married men have had extramarital affairs. The incidence is about 20 percent higher when emotional and sexual relationships without intercourse are included.

A TED talk has it 40% for men. I've seen articles that state about 50% of men and women are unfaithful. So really knows?

If you include sexual thoughts about anyone other than your spouse, I think it's 100%. Just my opinion. Everyone fantasizes about someone other than their partner, if not just briefly in the moment here or there. You don't pick your dreams either, and surely, those are your thoughts.

As you said, with action, I buy the statistics of around 25% of people physically cheating and about 40% emotionally and/or physically cheating.

Could be a bit higher than that.

I never thought infidelity was uncommon. I've had enough married men hit on me and known enough people who cheated to not be under any illusions about that. What came as a surprise to me was that these same men I'd categorize as jerks could also be those devoted spouses on the surface. I just assumed that they were jerks in the marriage too. I didn't quite comprehend the ability to be loving towards a spouse and then turn into the sleazeball towards someone else minutes later. I've had to revamp my opinions of the spouses of cheaters. Some guy would say something sexually explicit to me and I'd wonder how on earth his wife tolerated his existence. Now I understand that they were likely like I was, hearing love and tenderness while "I'd love to (insert crudity here)" is being tossed out at other women. I didn't comprehend the capacity for fakeness, or the Madonna/whore complex. I now understand how the youth minister back in the day directly asked me to give him a blowjob (I didn't) and then later married a very Christian girl. Bet she didn't ever see that side, but I expect I wasn't the first or the last to hear that and think "But wait...you're a minister...what?". I couldn't get my XWH to be dirty without him blushing, but he texted such things to other women. That this particular thing is common has been a surprise to me.

Infidelity was prevalent in my family growing up so I assumed it was this way in others. For a long time I was convinced I would never marry. I desperately wanted to avoid infidelity happening to me, but it happened to me anyways.

36Y,

A conversation with a coworker once veered into infidelity and I mentioned how it was in it's own category compared with other marital issues. Yep silence so absolute like you said.

My W gets silent at times too, particularly when certain passages in the bible are read.

Frankly, despite my experience with infidelity, I still believe that people with good character don't cheat.

But then, what happens when good character meets seduction?

I discovered it was more common just to me than I would have thought. So yeah, it's kind of not uncommon in my personal experience.

I was at a dinner table with 8 women. Ironically it was at a wedding. 8 of those women had been cheated on or had cheated. There was one man. I didn’t have the heart to ask him.

With respect, and apologizes for a thread jack, this is a very common, but contentious premise. Let me explain. I hear what you are saying about lust in the heart, but I don't think that's what the text meant. I had my MC try to pull that and I had ask her if i was also a murderer because I've been angry. I think the gist of the text is to illustrate that infidelity starts somewhere and if you can nip it in the bud, then it won't flourish. Basically the not just friends approach.

The reason i say it is dangerous, is because waywards use it to flip the script on betrayed spouses. Its classic whataboutism and moral equivalency. Let me explain. My STBXWW sucked dicks in parking lots, I looked at porn. Since theologically, sin is sin (yet there are degrees of punishments in the OT), we are both essentially guilty of the same crime and thus no moral high ground for any of us. How can I judge her when I too, figuratively speaking, am guilty. But the end result of this reasoning exercise is that since every is guilty of something, then no one is guilty of anything. It is laughable, but I guarentee there are members who have experienced this very thing during MC. It would be like a hedge fund manager accused of ripping off 500 million from a pension fund arguing that the judge has no right to sentence him because he stole a can of coke when he was a kid. Theft is theft, right?

I think in the last General Survey (I think that is what it is called or something close to that) it was reported that female adultery rates were about 20% and male about 24%. Female rates were rising and male rates falling. This is all according to my memory so my numbers might be slightly off but not the trends.

None of our friends or family know about my WWs infidelity. So that is part of the reason it seems rare, most couples don’t publicize it.

After coming to SI I now look at every couple through the lens of infidelity. Which one is cheating? Which one will cheat. I’ve become very hard in this area.

My W and I love watching game shows. When a contestant says my awesome W or H I think yea they just haven’t cheated yet. When someone says I’m about to get married, I will say out loud, “it will never last”.

[This message edited by Tanner at 7:13 PM, January 27th (Wednesday)]

More than we know or realize.

That’s the sad part. Social media has made it very easy to cheat. In many different ways.

On a similar note, I was the lucky one to speak on "Do not commit adultery" in our adult Sunday school class. While the research I found showed similar numbers on what the world calls "committing adultery", I had found a study that said 70% of lives are "touched" by infidelity. Whether that is level 1 (you/your partner) or level 2 (parent/child/sibling) or level 3 (other relative/friend).

I had the class look left, then right, and then look forward. I then told them that, chances are, when they include themselves in that group they just looked at, at least three of those people have experienced one of the three levels of infidelity, with at least one of those having experienced it at a level 1. Like your congregation, they were silent.

Obviously, I was the one that I knew had experienced the level 1 (no one in the room knew that), but I could read on many faces that there were more than just me who had dealt with it.

I was as completely unaware!

Also, every time a heterosexual man cheats, there is a woman involved. I never got the uneven math part unless the women involved are hooking up with many more men per person, which I doubt.

I saw a poll on another infidelity site asking how many cheating spouses cheated with other married cheaters. It was a very high percentage. I found that interesting. It is probably an age thing where younger singles cheat with other singles and the married crowd cheats with the married crowd. Some of the older men hook up with younger singles, but even those women know they are involved in cheating and still get counted in the men vs women numbers.

Seeing cheating as a BS changed my view on humanity. I learned to love more, and be on guard more. So many wonderful people of all political persuasions, believer/non-believer etc. reached out to help and I was overwhelmed by the human kindness. This far outweighs my disappointment in the plethora of cheaters out there.

Frankly, despite my experience with infidelity, I still believe that people with good character don't cheat.

I'll challenge that.

My XWW read her Bible and prayed an average of 2-3 hours per day. She was a very moral and honest person. Up or down, she never lied to me.... until she met a rich contractor who could buy her things I couldn't. Nonetheless, her good character became corrupted. My daughter tells me that she seems to have found herself again.

I think people of good character are capable of making poor decisions and choices.

[This message edited by thatbpguy at 9:54 AM, January 28th (Thursday)]

It's easier to do in an anonymous world than in a small tribe. Technology makes it very easy. It's all over tv and movies. You have to decide it's important to you to resist the strong temptations.

Wait until the robots show up........

I recommend doing this sort of research before making a claim in a sermon.

I do not accept the Sermon on the Mount's definition of infidelity. I don't lust after other women, but I surely notice them, and I do not think I'm unfaithful. Nor does my W.

I don't know how you define 'victim of infidelity.' One could say a totally faithful couple are victims of infidelity, if they feel bad watching a drama about infidelity. If that's what you mean, so be it.

But I took you to mean initially that you told the listeners they were either WSes or BSes, and I'd bet a lot there were listeners who were neither.

Definitions matter. Good social research matters. I, too, rely on the General Social Survey for this sort of data, but I'm not really sure the GSS method unearths all infidelity, so ...

How prevalent is infidelity? Beats me, but the GSS says you overstated the numbers by a lot, and I'll stick with the GSS.

I recommend doing this sort of research before making a claim in a sermon.

Good to know. I'll be sure to contact you for facts when I am too lazy to do my own research.

I do not accept the Sermon on the Mount's definition of infidelity. I don't lust after other women, but I surely notice them, and I do not think I'm unfaithful. Nor does my W.

Many people don't accept it as it deals with a heart/soul/character issue as opposed to physical infidelity only. I'll accept it.

I don't know how you define 'victim of infidelity.' One could say a totally faithful couple are victims of infidelity, if they feel bad watching a drama about infidelity. If that's what you mean, so be it.

As I cannot read someone else's mind, not my purview, I can only define a victim of infidelity as a spouse or significant other who has been physically or emotionally cheated on.

But I took you to mean initially that you told the listeners they were either WSes or BSes, and I'd bet a lot there were listeners who were neither.

No, I did not tell listeners that, per se. However, at that point in the message I was pointing out the spiritual aspect of infidelity.

Definitions matter. Good social research matters. I, too, rely on the General Social Survey for this sort of data, but I'm not really sure the GSS method unearths all infidelity, so ...

How prevalent is infidelity? Beats me, but the GSS says you overstated the numbers by a lot, and I'll stick with the GSS.

I don't believe I stated an actual number, therefore I could not overstate it. Regardless, you stick with your stellar research methods, and I'll stick with my poverty of thought.

How prevalent is infidelity?

I don't know how prevalent it is with the general population but I do know it happens a lot based on how many people are or have posted on this site.

I also know it has been prevalent in 50% of my marriages.