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I find myself wondering if she would be ok with you having a girlfriend for the next 2 years, to take on a test drive so to speak. Just so you can make the educated decision on whether you would be trading up or not.

After all she seemed to be fine with it when the shoe was in the other foot.

AH,

if we can be happy again and love each other again and if I'm able to forgive and move on and if she can be the honest caring wife she once was

There are a lot of ifs in your statement. Your WW may not ever be able to be who you want her to be. There has been too many things that have happened for her to be, to herself and in your eyes, who she was just a couple of years ago.

I would rather be with her because we share so many things. maybe I'm just not ready to start all over again.

Fair enough. Is it that you don't want to be alone?

the question is, Can I forgive and move on from the betrayal? can she be the honest caring wife she once was?

These are good questions that only you can answer.

is 6 months really enough to have an answer?

You might live the rest of your life and never find the answer to this question.

You know who she was before, during and after the affair. Are you prepared to possibly face who she is during and after another A should she face no consequences from the first A?

AH,

As someone that reconciled with his wife I just want to lay out some important things here.

First, afraid of being alone is not a reason to reconcile. In fact take your physical separation and learn to be comfortable living with yourself. Doing for yourself. Interacting with friends, family, and strangers by yourself. Oddly enough being okay to move on helped later in our reconciliation. I believe it convinced my wife that she could not take reconciliation for granted. She had to put work into it or I was divorcing. And I knew I could leave and be okay.

Second, understand that putting a time frame on reconciling is not going to work. Triggers are real and they can be huge set backs for both of you. Do prepare yourself for them. And some people heal faster or slower. So don't put pressure on yourself with any time frames. You'll know when it's working or not.

Third, do not base your decision to reconcile on your memories of your wife prior to the affair. That person is gone. That marriage is over. This is a new person before you that can and has hurt you. And we know that hurt is both emotional and physical in it's pain. Understand that you are looking to fall in love again with someone that knowingly hurt you. And for me it was a different love. I no longer put her on a pedestal.

Fourth, remember there is always a chance that the same selfish person that did this can return. Can she effectively communicate her problems. Is she going to be angry when you have a set back and pout about why you just can't get over it. Watch for these signs during reconciliation and call them out. How she responds will give you a good guage on how it's going.

And last, you need to be thinking about your ability to forgive. Can you honestly see yourself getting to the point of being able to forgive her? Because you will have to at some point. Now you may not can answer that now and that's okay but as you try to start your marriage over, this needs to be addressed. Because you have to have the strength and ability to forgive and/or walk away.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

I know it's hard. Not many people will be happy with your decision if you try to reconcile but it's your life and you're the one that has to live it.

One more thing, I don't remember if you addressed this but cut EVERYONE out of your lives that knew or facilitated in anyway the affair. That is extremely important for both of you.

See you in three years AH

Good luck AH. I hope she can prove herself worthy.

See you in three years AH

That was uncalled for.

I agree that was uncalled for!!!

Come on man the guy is trying to figure things out.

AH let a bullshit comment like this go in one ear and out the other.

also meant that you should be asking other hard questions about what your wife REALLY brings to the table that is a value add for the rest of your life. What are the qualities that, absent her betrayal, you couldn’t get somewhere else?

I’ve been thinking after the dust has settled, and realized that there is no doubt that she shattered my heart to pieces, but I still have feelings for her that I just can’t ignore. I also realized that my inconsistency regarding how I feel is something normal that many BS here relate to, so it makes sense to consider every option.

From conviene stand point, staying with her makes a lot of sense, I won’t have to split time with the kids and future grandchildren, assets will remain intact.

With that being said, I don’t want you to think that I decided to reconcile, I’m just point out why I would consider it but first I have to figure out if she can really love me after what she did, is if possible to live someone and betray him the way she did?

I need to figure out if she can fix herself,

First, afraid of being alone is not a reason to reconcile. In fact take your physical separation and learn to be comfortable living with yourself. Doing for yourself. Interacting with friends, family, and strangers by yourself. Oddly enough being okay to move on helped later in our reconciliation. I believe it convinced my wife that she could not take reconciliation for granted. She had to put work into it or I was divorcing. And I knew I could leave and be okay.

That’s what we’re doing, we are separated till the end of March, After that I can file immediately for divorce if that’s what I want. She can file too. Separation is helping although it’s only been couple of weeks. Am I ready to walk out? I think so, I have envisioned myself being divorced many times.

I got a lot of things to work on including my own fuckups .

AH whatever you decide we will be here for you.

It is perfectly normal to have feelings for your WW. After all you were a faithful man and still in the marriage even though she checked out. So it takes your heart time to catch up to the reality of what she did and who she is.

I just urge you to spend some time where you set aside the emotional connection and take a colder and more clinical approach to look at things. It is possible to do this. It’s also necessary to really get perspective.

Try to remember she didn’t have your best interests at heart for more than half a decade. That’s not a fluke. It’s a permanent state of mind.

You’re certainly giving her a lot more consideration and respect than she ever gave to you.

I’m just point out why I would consider it but first I have to figure out if she can really love me after what she did, is if possible to live someone and betray him the way she did?

I need to figure out if she can fix herself,

That's all well and good, but it is secondary.

Primary is if you can live with the things she did, said, and planned to do prior to being busted.

Don't hang your future on her being able to figure herself out.

AHguy first.

Reconciliation. It means that you have to let go of who she was during the affair and see if she can become a wife you love snd respect and trust. Someone who is faithful and supports you. Someone that is truly remorseful and really commits to the marriage.

It’s hard to know if she can become that person without seeing evidence of it.

It would be kinder if the cheater would just admit they want out if the marriage sometimes. It saves slot of heartache and wasted time.

I hope it works out and that she’s willing to make the commitment to change.

AH whatever you decide we will be here for you.

^^^This.

... if we can be happy again and love each other again and if I'm able to forgive and move on and if she can be the honest caring wife she once was, I would rather be with her. because we share so many things. maybe I'm just not ready to start all over again.

the question is, Can I forgive and move on from the betrayal? can she be the honest caring wife she once was? and is 6 months really enough to have an answer?

I do think your marriage is recoverable, and I've thought so for some time now. But it really is all about what you choose for yourself, and the good news about that is that your choices don't necessarily have to represent permanence.

In a general sense, trauma fucks up our perception of TIME. When we experience triggers, for example, the pain of the past is as fresh and raw as if the experience were happening right now. The amygdala of the brain can't tell the difference between an emotional crisis and a clear and present danger. A strong trigger can have the same physiological impact as a near miss at a stop light. The results of either flood the body with adrenaline and cortisol. (You can get a whole lot of information on all this in The Body Keeps Score by Bessel van der Kolk. It helped me so much to realize what a profound effect trauma had had on my body and mind.)

I had already noticed that my perception of time had changed. A mere remembrance of trauma could put me right back in that space. The whole of my past seemed poisoned, and the future had fallen away like a path you just can't quite make out in the gloom ahead, almost as if it had disappeared. I was stuck in the aftershock of discovery. Time seemed to have stopped, and yet life carried on around me. And I wasn't really a part of that life anymore. Sure, I went to work, did the shopping, interacted with people, but I wasn't involved. I was stuck, emotionally trapped in the space of my trauma, right in that spot where you've got your breath back but don't know what to do next. I was a ghost in my own life, observing, but at a distance.

Decisions seem impossible when you're living in your own head. And that's really what this is... TIME is still moving, just like always, but we're not engaging with it. I think that's a natural reaction to trauma, but it's also something we need to defeat. We know it logically, but the amygdala don't respond to logic. The connection between the higher function of the brain is kind of loose and flimsy, so we can't really talk our way out of trauma. But we can plan around this reaction by making choices in the full knowledge that we can rely upon ourselves and that we are free to change our minds.

One of my favorite meditations involves imagining a leaf floating down a stream. This helps me get time moving again. As the leaf floats down the stream, perspective naturally changes. Surroundings change in an obvious way, but people have the capacity for change too. What was true of my WS at the height of his cheating binge was no longer true a month past discovery and even more changed six months past discovery. When we're trapped in that stuck space, we're looking for absolutes, but there are none when it comes to people. Even our own bodies are changed. In 7 to 10 years, every cell of my WH's body will be replaced with another. Even in the first year after his adultery, no hair existed anywhere on him that had existed then, so it only stands to reason that his mind is ever changing as well.

In R, the thing I've found most helpful is to take full ownership of the space I'm standing in now. I may have been victimized by loss of agency during my WH's cheating binge, but I am fully aware and fully in charge of my choices today. Time is NOT static. It moves and I move with it.

That's not to say that I don't make any sort of commitment or that I don't stand my the commitments I make. But taking ownership of the space you're in kind of demands that you define it. I didn't commit to R right away. I committed to "trying" for R. I took ownership of "trying", full in the knowledge that just as the leaf floats down the stream, time could change my perspective again. Taking full ownership of your choice gives you FREEDOM. You're no longer a victim, you're a decision-maker. You decide where you'll stand and for how long. You trust yourself to know what's best for you, and also to know that YOU ARE ENOUGH if it all goes to shit and you need to make another choice.

Anyway, you don't have to eat the bear in one bite. You've got time to think about who your are and what you want. Just remember though that time is still fluid, not static... and so are the people. There are no absolutes. There's only the ground you choose to stand on today and your freedom to make a different choice tomorrow.

Great post, CT!

AHguy first.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^And this.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

...first I have to figure out if she can really love me after what she did, is if possible to live someone and betray him the way she did?

While I do agree that separation can provide enlightenment by breaking through enmeshment and encouraging self-suffiency, I don't think it's going to answer these questions unless you move to a more therapeutic model.

You might consider Discernment Counseling. You can find more information on that pretty readily online, but basically, it brings the two parties together to figure out if divorce is really the right answer. If counseling isn't in the cards for you right at the moment, you might consider a dinner meeting once per week to discuss progress. A "therapeutic" separation has purpose and rules. You decide together what the purpose and the rules will be. It seems to me though that without discussion, you can't measure change, so I do think there needs to be some method of regular contact which is frequent enough to demand focus, but not so frequent as to encourage further enmeshment. A good therapist can help you find balance on that, but it's not strictly necessary if you're both communicating efficiently.

Strength brother

AHguy first.

May your journey be calm, if R is what You feel is right then give it a go. Like all journeys, it begins with that first step.

With good IC, communication and the ability to look at ones self, anything is possible. There will be hurdles, these are to be taken together, problems need to be worked on, painful 😖 triggers, need to be soothed by talking. Take care all here wish you well on your future.

Always my friend one day at a time.

Odd how half the board has you in R when you have made it clear you are not there yet.

You are doing what you need and that is right for you.

Having said that, the question you ask is whether she can really love you After what she did. I read that and went omg no. That is so not the right question. Of course she will say she loves you now, then and when she lived her 2 years in bigamy. She will swear on the eyes of her children that she loves you. She has been doing that since day one of your learning of her lies and deception. She will go to the ends of the earth love bombing you. She probably believes it, and I have said before, she is inviting you to believe her own writings are not true.

If you can get to the point that she loves and means it, despite her previous words that you were not meant to see ever, then ok. That will take some doing. And to be fair it should. It’s kinda like saying you should ignore a written confession with a fingerprint and signed in blood. But maybe you can get there as she spins her story and maybe it will feel very real. And maybe in her mind it will be real.

But that is the wrong issue. The issue is never about whether the torturer loves the tortured. The issue is not about what she felt or feels. The issue is about what you are prepared to live with. The issue is can you live with yourself. Only then can the discussion be about whether you can live with her.

I’m sure you get my point. If you leave it to her to convince you, you let her control everything. Her past narrative, her future narrative, your very soul and well being.

This is not the point to give her agency in your healing. One of the horrible truths in this ordeal is the person who hurt you the most is also The person you look to for succor. The person to stop the pain.

Why do men stay with a cheating wife and then come here and say in despair that they hate their lives. A common theme seems to be that they let other factors than their own needs control the outcome. In some cases it’s more palpable than others, but staying with a cheat because she loves you is not a recipe for saving the marriage.

Love yourself first. Honor your needs. Honor your basic beliefs and your inner core. Then if you are willing to give her a shot do it. But do it from clear eyed control and do not accept transparent lies that defy logic and her own writings. You must demand brutal truth. And she must demonstrate that despite that truth, she is changed, accepting that you know her for what she is. And that she is prepared to accept your outcome as you see fit.

Neither of you are there yet. You can’t be. You may get there, but proclamations of undying Never ending love from a person who four months ago was happily riding another at every opportunity And who freely admits would still be if not caught is not only counterproductive, it is downright insulting.

Physician, heal thyself is a saying from 2000 years ago. No one says you can do it alone, but you cannot cede the issue to her. She does not get to control your destiny by repeating platitudes about how much she loves you. That is irrelevant right now. It may not be later, but it is now. She owes you so much more than histrionics and swearing that you must not believe her “pack of lies” to her partner in Multi year polyamory.

[This message edited by longsadstory1952 at 11:37 PM, September 28th (Monday)]

The issue is never about whether the torturer loves the tortured. The issue is not about what she felt or feels. The issue is about what you are prepared to live with. The issue is can you live with yourself. Only then can the discussion be about whether you can live with her.

I have to agree with this. You can NEVER know what a person "feels". And really, the whole "feelings" thing pretty much gets exposed for what is is during all the mental machinations and emotional perversions of an A.

What matters is whether or not your reactions to what she is doing and not doing is acceptable to your long term. If your WW had shown fidelity, loyalty, kindness, comfort, and desire to you, would it really matter what her feelings were? As lss1952 said, most cheaters claim feelings of love while stabbing their BS in the back. Forget waiting for her feelings. Watch her behaviors, listen to her words, then trust how you feel about accepting the betrayals, what she says, and what she shows.

If she shows you and gives you all that you need and expect and want to call that love, no harm in that. But you will still be left with the one thing only you can own. Can you coexist with the betrayal memories in a way that does not continue the trauma? Many have, to one degree or another.