SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

As a reformed "reconciliationist", even if a generalization, I largely agree with skins21. Most cheaters are simply not up to the task of what it takes to become a safe, authentic, true partner. I take that stance because I don't wish to minimize the cheating itself. It takes a lot of contributing factors to form the cheater mindset...and that many more to heal it.

What is ironic to me about the responses is that so many of you that have experienced a successful reconciliation were able to do so on the basis that you were willing to walk away from the marriage at the onset. And you continue to be willing to walk away from the marriage. So in that regard, why is this such bad advice?

Dividing the reformable cheater from the irreformable can largely be determined at the onset...and what better way to determine which particular camp your WS fails in than to demonstrably be willing to walk away from the relationship? At a minimum, it accelerates the outcome - whatever that may be. It's a justifiable (and predictable) consequence for apprehensible behavior...and we all understand the value of consequences in influencing behavior.

eta: I think we may be drowning the baby in the bathwater.

[This message edited by truthsetmefree at 5:12 PM, March 19th (Monday)]

I agree that one should not waste anymore time with an unremorseful WS.

BUT

There are many WS that are remorseful and if the BS gives the gift at a chance at R, then there is a chance.

There are some BS that know immediately that the A is a dealbreaker, but there are many who want to try to R. The problem is that the BS may be in so much pain, they may not realize fully that the WS is not fully remorseful and willing to do the work, but there are many WS that are remorseful.

Even with a remorseful WS, it is a long hard road to R.

So many of us at SI do want to try to R. And again, so many have been severely hurt by false R, gaslighting, lies etc that can sometimes be worse than the betrayal itself.

We cannot make a blanket statement that one size fits all, although I do tend to agree with not wasting one's time with an unremorseful WS.

Personally, I agree with much of what Skins has said. IMO, cheaters do not deserve a second chance. We cheated with our eyes wide open. We KNEW what we were was wrong, period. All this baloney about FOO issues is a bunch of malarkey. The simple fact is, we knew it was wrong not matter how much bullshit rationalization we tried to give ourselves.

That being said, if the BS decides to offer grace to the WS, that’s entirely their call. They are not weak for choosing to stay or go; the only weak party is the WS.

Not sure WS's are good candidates for anything, really.

Truly remorseful people-- former addicts, sober drunks, and former waywards--who have worked hard to understand themselves, change, and make amends, can be some of the most empathetic, insightful, humble and compassionate people on earth. Many have been good-- even life saving-- friends to me.

Reading this post. What a great way to start the day.

You do know not everything fits in the one little box right?

There are so many variables when it comes to relationships and infidelity that it's not o ne simple answer for all.

Yes it is hard to 'heal' with the 'trigger' walking next to you through life. But for some of us it is the right choice.

You cannot blanket everyone with your experience.

There was a remark made about waywards not being good candidates for anything.

I spent years working with human trafficking survivors. Most were sex workers and/or in the “adult entertainment” industry. Many had been substance users for many years. Had done things they were ashamed of. According to society’s standards, they would certainly be perceived as “wayward” in terms of their actions, judgment, and morals.

But I’ve seen with my own eyes how a number of them turned their lives completely around. Began to live whole, healthy lives with honesty, sobriety, and decency. Worked hard to restore broken relationships and heal the hurt they had caused others. Became law abiding citizens who contributed to society, gave back to their communities, took good care of their families, developed a strong spiritual (or moral) compass.

I do not believe it is accurate nor fair to make such a sweeping generalization of who isn’t a “candidate” for anything. Redemption is possible and to insist otherwise is short-sighted and unkind.

I came to that SAME conclusion after false R with my 1st H. Once a cheater ALWAYS a cheater...my XWH proved that time and again. I found another partner...and we were HAPPILY M for over 28 years...until HE put me in infidelity HELL again .

Within SECONDS of his confession...I told my H that the M was OVER. I was NOT wasting one more MINUTE with him. I KNEW what the outcome would be...I LIVED it just 30 years before!!!

Yet here I am...almost 4 years later...HAPPILY in R with the LOVE of my LIFE . You are RIGHT...I would NOT have stayed in an M with the man who cheated on me. My H CHANGED...Thank God we don't always stay the same. He knew he was given a GIFT...and he has NOT taken it for granted this time .

I am so SORRY to see you are HURTING (((HUGS))). NO ONE deserves this type of PAIN . But you can walk away...you have a CHOICE. This may be the WORST thing that has ever happened to you...but it is FAR from being the worst thing that COULD happen to you Dear Sir.

I wish you WELL on your new journey . There is so MUCH opportunity out there and Life can be so GOOD!!! ENJOY it !!!

It sounds like you are very hurt and angry, and it can be very easy to slip into polarized thinking and make all kinds of overgeneralizations when you are in that state of mind.

How the hell can you heal when the biggest obstacle and trigger of your pain is still living with you?

Answer. YOU CAN'T!!!!!

While that is true for some people, it is not true for all. The remorse, empathy and compassion shown to me by my H in the past 3+ years most definitely helped in my healing.

Once your partner has strayed with a coworker, family friend, relative, pool boy...ect your marriage is over and so is your relationship.

Again, not everyone shares this thinking. At no point have I considered my M or relationship over.

Cheaters are completely self absorbed broken people with the emotional intelligence of a teenager.

And so are some BS's, read here long enough and you'll see that. Both BS and WS can be self-absorbed and broken. Both BS and WS can lack emotional intelligence.

Without trying to overgeneralize most/many cheaters have severe character flaws that include lying, addiction, fear of commitment, selfishness, entitlement, attention seeking, fear of abandonment and co-dependency to name a few.

Again, so do some BS's. These "character flaws", as you call them, are not limited to WS. In my 3+ years on this forum I have seen just as much of these things in BS as WS.

I'm sorry that you are hurting so badly and hope that you will find a more balanced view of people and relationships as you heal.

I agree that one should not waste anymore time with an unremorseful WS.

The thing is, you can't always tell if they are remorseful.

They may act like it. But then it is just an act.

Mine promised not to ever cheat again. But did, I caught him 8 yrs later in a second A.

But he acted like nothing was wrong. Just waiting for the kids to leave home to D me for his COW.

Wasting my time and my life

I am inclined to agree with Skins.

[This message edited by shiloe at 6:18 PM, March 19th (Monday)]

I am so sorry for your pain. No one here knows your full story. We don’t know what happened during false R. We don’t know your personalities. I don’t judge you at all for coming here with your pain. One of the most horrible thing done to us is being stabbed in the back by the person suppose to protect it.

You need to get some therapy so that you can have a person to help you with this trauma.

My H cheated years ago and by the time I found out time had moved on. I have no idea who, when or how long and I don’t care. He was embarrassed when I found out and I wasn’t. I just thought about the good, bad and sometimes stupid things we both have done as human beings. It never hurt my heart because I accepted years ago not to put anyone on a pedestal. They will invariably fall off. He is just my husband who drives me crazy sometimes as I do him.

Take care of yourself.

understand the mind fuck a BS experiences when trying to reconcile with a WS who doesn't get it.

Too long for a bumper sticker?

I've come to feel that way too skins. I agree with everything you posted. Hoping the D goes well for you.

And ff4152, damn dude, I gotta say it's somewhat refreshing to see a WS post like yours. You're actually owning your shit.

Point noted and inappropriate response removed

[This message edited by SoMelancholy at 7:55 PM, March 19th (Monday)]

Skins, it seems like you got a lot of folks picking apart your post. Which is fair in a way. Folks like me trying to r. Folks who have. Folks who haven't but still don't agree. Folks who agree.

What I heard you say, though, wasn't a condemnation of my ww, but a battle cry.

And I hear ya. If you end up doing a video of paint half your face blue and screaming "freedoooooooooommmmmm!!!" I hope you shoot me the link.

Please refrain from making generalizations.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:14 PM, March 19th (Monday)]

Sorry quick T/J:

I spent years working with human trafficking survivors. Most were sex workers and/or in the “adult entertainment” industry. Many had been substance users for many years. Had done things they were ashamed of. According to society’s standards, they would certainly be perceived as “wayward” in terms of their actions, judgment, and morals.

Woahh. Careful now. I, too, work with human trafficking survivors. It's difficult, but I admire the resilience in those who can escape a horrible life, which was never their choice. They were forced into a life of abuse. This is very different than a WS making a conscious choice to betray a BS. Please do not group victims of sexual abuse in with WS. A WS is a perpetrator, not a victim.

Not saying it's impossible for a WS to repent and change (not all are like my XWH ). but comparing a wayward to a victim of abuse was quite a stretch there.

My H will be the first to admit he made the worse choice of his life - the consequences he will Iive with for the rest of his life. He has worked his ass off to become a better man and husband. He was a good loving kind father and husband for 30 years and I will not let this define him or our marriage.

So where do we draw the line when judging peoples' past choices - you cheated and will never change so you are not worthy of forgiveness. You are a drug user - an alcoholic - an embezzler - you shoplifted when you were a kid so you will never change and are not worthy of forgiveness. We have ALL made shitty choices in our lives - but I believe a truly remorseful person - one who sees the harm they have done and learned from those choices should not have those choices define who they are.

If infidelity is a dealbreaker for some I respect that and certainly understand and emphasize. Making generalizations that no cheater is capable of change belittles those waywards who have become safe loving partners. Who have done the work and dealt with their issues.

We need to be supportive of anybody that is trying to turn their lives around - cheaters, drug users, alcoholics, etc. The key here is those that are TRULY trying and not just going through the motions.

I know for myself I was willing to walk away from the marriage and he knew it - it's called consequences - but if I had just walked away because cheaters can't change and are't worthy of R and not given him the chance to prove himself - I would not the marriage I have today - and in spite of the A I am proud of us and our marriage.

I am so sorry for your pain - for choices that we have all had to make through no fault of our own. We need to support the struggles we have all gone through and respect the way we each choose to deal with those struggles.

T/j

So melancholy,

When you actually call out a poster, but then pretend you’re not calling out a poster, while you post your opinion of the poster and call him a hypocrite, is actually quite hypocritical yourself.

Yeah, everyone here gets an opinion and gets to state it across various threads. Don’t call out a poster’s response to a thread because you don’t like what he’s said in his own posts. It’s actually the opposite of helpful advice.

Skins, you should not generalize. Many here have reconciled. I understand your pain. I hope your decision brings you peace moving forward.

None of this shit is easy.

skins21, you're obviously very hurting and I'm sorry for that.

If we lived closer to each other I'd treat you to a single beer and an appetizer. Because, you know, alcohol and trauma and sadness don't mix well.

Good luck. It will get better soon. fist-bump }{

For me I agree. Reconciliation is a moonshot. It takes true love for that. I unfortunately never personally experienced the remorse from my wh and I waited yyeeaaarrrsss

I was in agony 7 plus years in. I never healed until I excised the tumor