SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Something my therapist asked me when I wanted to have a revenge affair was, “ok maise, picture going through with this. How do u feel afterward?” Well, my first indication that I wouldn’t feel great was that I’d have to drink just to actually go through with it. So I sat, and thought about it, and responded, “Disgusted. I’d feel disgusted with myself.” Therapist, “now why would you want to do that to yourself when you’re already in so much pain? Why add disgusted to that?”

It made it so much clearer when she said that. I could “validate” that having sex with someone that knew what was up and only wanted sex would be ok - so long as this person isn’t in a relationship and doesn’t want one from me. I had found plenty of people just wanting sex. And to consider my WW? Pffttt yeah no. I wanted to get her back for what she did to me! (And I told her so every chance I got!) But when my therapist asked me that last part, did I really deserve to do this to myself? To treat myself this way after everything I was feeling already from my wife’s fucked up actions? I didn’t. I don’t. I don’t deserve that from myself. So I reminded myself of this every time I wanted revenge. I don’t deserve this from myself.

[This message edited by maise at 10:13 AM, September 20th (Sunday)]

do I hate myself for an ashley madison account? no. Would I hate myself for following through? Yes.

This and your update to your original post are trying to make distinctions without a difference. Do you want a pat on the back?

You already talked to this woman, you know where she lives. You told us you could get in a car and be there in 15 minutes. And you were willing to contemplate this even though it would mean visiting the same horrific pain you’ve experience on to another innocent husband.

Interestingly I’ve seen no reflection or introspection from you at all on this essential point. You’ve written nothing about being worried about the husband of the woman you’ve already talked to on AM. Nothing.

That’s exactly the lack of empathy that allows unfaithful spouses to do what they do. They act more like lizards than human beings.

Humans are unique and can experience meta thinking, higher order consciousness and can project empathy (a form of grace). Yet you’ve allowed yourself to merely descend into your primitive hindbrain.

You already crossed the Rubicon in all the essentials.

Why? Better start asking yourself that question a lot instead of trying to defend your decisions.

And why on earth are you still married?

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:15 AM, September 20th (Sunday)]

FuglyUnicorn

SI is a place where any kind of cheating is not promoted or supported. Nevertheless you can find alot of information on Madheaters forum.

There are some things that makes a RA totally different from an A. Some are:

You are not cheating out of the blue, so you have a purpose!! It is not something that you got caugth up!! You are making someone you care suffer (of course she did It first but you need to ask your self if you want to be that kind of person)

Your WW if/when discover it, may think that she desevers It, and also she wont be the only one in the wrong!!

Are you going to cheat for the same duration?

Are you going to introduce the AP to your wife and spend time toguether, the 3 of you, while your WW doesnt know?

Are you willing to do the same work for your wife that you need her to do to heal from her A?

In other hand, as you experience, you are getting a Big ego boosth, your may hace the chance to ser first hand if you settled for your wife or you can do better. Of couser better sex (keep un mind that you have sex with your brain, so no Matter the technique, if the AP is hotter, what Will Matter is the planning, the thinking, the entusiasm of AP, the messages that cant wait to fuck you, etc. Along with the forbithen and the brand nwe partner arose) maybe Matter you Will feel different and reshape your memories, but while in the A the may be the best you ever had.

As you know, after cheating there la not comming back.

Tehre are many more things to consider besides the moral issue.

Why dont you just get De?

Are you getting your self in and exit affair? If you have kids, a good parenting relation is requiere, so not point in leaving the marriage in the worst possible way

So you've felt the pain of being betrayed. Now you're willing to inflict that pain onto another soon to be betrayed. File for a divorce dude. You can have your whole life to get your "ego boost" or whatever it is you're seeking. But don't do it with married women.

Assisting the kids through college, or coming from a broken home?

You mean the currently broken home they live in where mom is a cheater with a whole slew of mental health issues and frequently places herself above them and dad is stressed out, distracted, depressed, and on his way to coping by adding an OW to the mix? Being from a broken home is better than continuing to live in one.

Get it together. Get an IC. 180 your WW. Delete your AM account and admit what happened. Deal with the fallout. If you can't stay in your marriage without turning to the same broken coping mechanisms that got you into this mess then you need to S/D for your and your children's sakes.

Well, I'm glad you decided not to go through with the RA. You wnet pretty far down the slippery slope, though.

I have been of the mind that I want someone to tell me words that will fix me.

This is a big red flag. You MUST find your own way through recovering from infidelity.

That means asking and answering for yourself very difficult questions. It means asking questions even if the answers terrify you.

Just as your W needs to take responsibility for her beliefs, thoughts, feelings, and actions, you have to take full responsibility for yours to heal.

You've got to cross that lonesome valley for yourself.

Don't do it. I wish I would have left after D-Day 1 and I also wish I had found this site before I went down the rabbit hole. Not only did I lower myself, but my STBX never stopped having A's and I went through more years of hell with him using it as ammunition against me.

You've got to cross that lonesome valley for yourself.

Sisoon is spot on zeroing in on this and you looking for the right incantation to dispel the curse.

You’ve got to pass thru the experience of liminality.

You might look up liminality and read a bit about Joseph Campbell and the hero’s journey.

[This message edited by Thumos at 6:25 PM, September 20th (Sunday)]

There was a contributor here (I think it’s here on SI) who married a serial cheater. Nothing stopped the H from cheating.

She finally got so fed up she has a revenge affair. She told him about it. He filed for D immediately b/c “he was not going to be married to a cheater”.

Double standard? Absolutely.

Two wrongs don’t make a right as the saying goes.

Call me crazy, but while this behavior was certainly not healthy, I don't see him as a MH.

He went pretty damn close - and did so intentionally - which is certainly something to reflect upon and work on, but the fact of the matter is he did not have sex with another person.

Maybe I'm just rationalizing my own behavior about 6 months post dday when I went to another man's hotel room while at a conference. As I went there, I considered having an RA. And I could not do it either. I do not consider myself a MH. I do not consider that one night to be an EA or PA or anything like an A. And I sure as shit would NEVER have even been in that room if my WH hadn't cheated.

Now, I can rationalize/distinguish between actively seeking an RA via Ashley Madison vs the happenstance of a late hour, alcohol, convention setting, etc. But the bottom line is neither were very healthy choices AND neither of us actually crossed the line into A territory.

I can't say what was in Fugly's heart during all of this. Unlike Fugly, I don't remember being angry at my WH for his ability to "go through with it". I remember it more as a combination of curiosity and a serious desire for revenge. In a weird way, the experience was really liberating in that I then KNEW - like in my bones KNEW - that I could never do what my WH did, even when I could justify and rationalize it in all the ways everyone here can imagine. And as much as I wanted my WH to hurt in the ways I hurt, I discovered that was impossible - that no matter what I did or didn't do, he would never understand the devastation of being blindsided with a dday or a 10yr PA, and would probably tell himself he deserved it anyhow. It was one of the very early / first "turning points" for me to realize I needed to start figuring out better ways to cope and work on myself instead of trying to hurt my WH.

And like Maise, albeit w/o the help of an IC, I think I knew that if I did have an RA, I would have added disgust to the list of already shitty things I felt.

Just my $0.02

The only healthy option on RAs is to choose to have one with yourself.

Find out who you are again. Treat yourself the way you want a partner to treat you. Do things that make you happy and fulfilled in yourself with no one else influencing you. From that point the real healing from this starts and then you get healthy and happy and set firm healthy boundaries because you know your own worth, and will choose to not tolerate being treated less than you should be.

Good choice:

I didnt. It made me realize that I needed someone and an "experience" which will never align with what she did. I would not parade her around this woman and somehow justify my actions- like she did to me.

There is so much shit that is wrapped up into an affair, I have never despised my wife more when I understood WHAT she was getting that she couldnt get from me.

It sounds like you have decided to follow Unhinged's profoundly accurate statement:

You can, if you so choose, survive infidelity. Or, you can let it break you. The choice is all yours.

Ultimately I have found great comfort in the moral high ground - not because I want to throw it in my WH's face (I don't find any long term value in that) - but because I feel better about me. Infidelity generally destroys the self worth of a BS, at least for a time, and adding to that damage by creating some of your own is just adding to the misery of an already decidedly miserable situation. You made the right choice.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 3:32 PM, September 20th (Sunday)]

Call me crazy, but while this behavior was certainly not healthy, I don't see him as a MH.

He went pretty damn close - and did so intentionally - which is certainly something to reflect upon and work on, but the fact of the matter is he did not have sex with another person.

Maybe I'm just rationalizing my own behavior about 6 months post dday when I went to another man's hotel room while at a conference. As I went there, I considered having an RA. And I could not do it either. I do not consider myself a MH. I do not consider that one night to be an EA or PA or anything like an A. And I sure as shit would NEVER have even been in that room if my WH hadn't cheated.

Now, I can rationalize/distinguish between actively seeking an RA via Ashley Madison vs the happenstance of a late hour, alcohol, convention setting, etc. But the bottom line is neither were very healthy choices AND neither of us actually crossed the line into A territory.

You're not crazy, you're correct.

I think what is crazy is the expectation that appears to be expressed in the majority of the replies to FuglyUnicorn's post, that someone who has had their head and heart so fucked up by someone who was supposed to be the closest to him, to have complete moral clarity at all times, like every betrayed spouse is Jesus.

For example, if someone hurts a person you love, you may struggle with the dilemma of planning to hurt that person, maybe even finding a weapon, seeking that person out... and then deciding that you won't go through with it because you understand that it is wrong and this revenge won't un-hurt your loved one, and might hurt others who have not hurt you. (For example, the husband of this Ashley Madison person.)

Guess what folks? Considering, even taking steps toward inflicting hurt back upon someone who hurt you just makes you human. It appears to me that FuglyUnicorn "caught himself" before he did irreparable damage to himself and others.

Was it good to take it that far? Of course not. But I bet you if his wife had the innate decency to "catch herself" while taking steps, but before she crossed the point of no return, FuglyUnicorn would be in a much better spot with regard to "saving his marriage" so to speak.

Not everything is the same folks, and I actually admire FuglyUnicorn for pulling himself back from a morally reprehensible choice.

***

@FuglyUnicorn, it sure looks to me like you just have a "paper marriage" marriage right now.

I am of the opinion that cheating severs the "real" marriage contract. After the betrayed spouse discovers the cheating and has some time to deal with the ensuing mind-fuck, that spouse has to make decision: To commit to ATTEMPTING a faithful marriage with a cheater, or deciding to move on alone and if you so choose, finding other partners.

If you have decided that you no longer want to pursue the faithful marriage with your wife, tell her (This is very important, don't be a liar) and start "living your life" WHILE MOVING TOWARD THE DISSOLUTION OF YOUR PAPER MARRIAGE.

Does that mean you should start dating all around and fucking women who are not your wife? No. But it does mean that you are no longer beholden to a vow of faithfulness to her.

You can be "open". You do not need to turn down (Or search for) opportunities for a new relationship.

But it is very important that you are honest with her "I no longer want to be a married to you because you are a cheater and I cannot stay around you" and "I no longer feel required to exclude other women from my life" and "here are the divorce papers" or "I am preparing to divorce you" (Lawyers/mediators/etc.).

I know a lot of people get bent out of shape at the idea of someone being open to a relationship before the paper marriage is dissolved, and that is their right, but divorce can take a while, and there is no good reason for you to suffer the burden of a vow that no longer exists in real life.

In any case, chances of you finding an actual relationship that quickly are small. If you want to unburden yourself from the cheater, let life come to you.

Good luck to you.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 4:57 PM, September 20th (Sunday)]

Yes, absolutely have a revenge affair!

After you divorce. Because you know that’s where you’re heading right?

Hold your moral high ground, you’re integrity. It’s the only thing that’s going to get you through this shit show.

Don’t empower your WW by stooping to her level. It will change everything. It will especially change the tone of your divorce to something very acrimonious.

That same thrill and ego boost you experienced will be much more potent and appreciated and cathartic, WITH A SINGLE WOMAN, after you D -or at least legally separate.

Don’t hurt someone like your WW’s POSOM did to you. Right?

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 6:04 PM, September 20th (Sunday)]

I, too, didn't think Fugly committed adultery. He came close and backed away. I think a lot of us have strongly considered such a thing. Some of us have done so. He was close but didn't.

I considered a revenge affair, if you could call it that. I wouldn't have done it with a married or attached woman. I wouldn't have gone to a bar or lounge or anywhere else. I would have to pay for it. My WW gave it away freely for 4 years and I would have to pay for it. Does one time count? For real revenge would I have to pay for it once a week and some weeks every night or have them come to our place to really be revenge?

When I count what I would have lost it didn't seem worth it. Integrity is doing the right thing even when no one is looking. I haven't always done that but I do try to all the time.

Fugly didn't do it. He might have went farther than some of us but did back away. I encourage you, Fugly, to keep your morals and integrity. They could have high value with some worthy woman in the future.

The thing about the ego boost is that it means nothing. Every single one of us here can go find ourselves someone to have sex with and we could have done that all along. My madhatter experience is a little weird, but it took me less than 2 hours to find someone, go have sex with him, and get back home. That is not an accomplishment. It was not an accomplishment for my XWH to find people who would take money for sex either. None of it makes any of us more attractive or wanted. It's 8:53pm on a Sunday night. I could find someone to screw right now. BFD. I'd drop the whole idea of an RA for a number of reasons and I'm glad you didn't go for it. It wouldn't have helped you at all. I am one of the few here who doesn't really give a fuck how it affects the original WS and if an RA would fix your pain and not involve hurting another person, I'd be all about everyone doing it. It doesn't fix anything. The problem is that we married people who acted with low character. That's what we have to deal with. Divorce or reconcile. Nothing will even the stakes or get anyone here revenge that even approaches what was done to us.

Save yourself. For once. Get the divorce. Then have a real relationship. Or real dates with real people. We are out there. More whoring isn’t going to fix anything. It’s sorta like bullying. It isn’t good to be like your abuser. It accomplishes nothing. somebody gets hurt. Somebody is used.

Maybe it’s me. Acting like them is not appealing. Proving I’m no different then the person who hurt me the most. Not my goal. I’m better then the affair. I deserve more then this experience he had with someone trashy.

I want more then trashy. If trashy was acceptable. I would stay with him I want to always know I’m better then he treated me.

15 minutes of sex can ruin lives. Your happy best life is the best revenge Build up to it. Love it. Keep your pride know who you are.

If you've reached this point, I think it's time to start very seriously considering divorce. There will be plenty of time to play with legit dating apps when every thing is final, and you can do it with a free and clear conscience, and without the searing pain of living with a cheating spouse eating you up from the inside.

For those who don't consider this cheating I wonder if that wood be the same if it was a wayward writing on here about how they resisted temptation.

OK Fugly, here comes a different perspective. I hope it will help you.

While my divorce is not yet final, it's been over 3 years since I left my WH. I was not interested in dating right away. I was an emotional and psychological wreck, and just needed to spend time with my friends and rebuild my life, and, as mentioned above, have an affair with myself. Eventually, about 17 months post-separation, I met a man, organically, and we hit it off. Things progressed naturally, and we ended up being intimate several times before ultimately deciding it would not work long-term. I'll say this:. The first time we were intimate felt very much like "revenge." Except without the disgust of being a cheater. My motive was not to hurt my WH, but I would be lying if I said that during the first act I didn't feel strong satisfaction in knowing my POS STBX lost a damn good woman in me. That he would never find a woman more loyal or faithful than I was. That he treated me so poorly, all the while blaming me for his poor actions...well this is what he got. I kept my honor integrity and character intact. And here I was lying with another man, the first one other than WH in 20 years, with an absolute clear conscience. It was exciting and euphoric. Dare I say, I almost felt like a virgin again. The excitement was that intense.

Anyway, you don't have to have an in your face RA to feel better. Your WW is clearly unremorseful, and continues to cause you pain. It is your choice what happens next. You can move on, legitimately, via divorce. An authentic life on the other side of a sham of a marriage, will be all the "revenge" you need.