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My wife doesn't wear tight yoga. She would look nice in them though. She likes those loose fitting ones.

She says yoga pants are like thick pantyhoses. Who the Hell wants to wear pantyhoses. They look uncomfortable to me. My wife likes jeans. Not the tight ones, thick pantyhose thing again. My daughter doesn't own a pair of jeans. All leggings for her. She hates jeans. Blows my mind what some people feel is comfortable and others don't think are. She got invited to a Lularoo party and my wife asked her friend how long have you known me. I guess I am an old fashioned guy that likes jeans on a woman. Not trying to be a douche here. Just stating what looks good in a visual way and not sexual. Lularoos look like kids clothes for adult women. No offense to you ladies that wear them.

Maybe we should just stop judging people by looks, clothes etc and see them as good humans first.

Not maybe, we should stop. But we won't. It's just human nature, it's the most obvious and easiest way to asses another person that you don't know. And, frankly, we do it because it works. Guy with the tats on his neck and a big bulge in his waistband? Much more likely to be a threat than the guy wearing a 5,000 dollar suit. Right, wrong, ugly, horrible, whatever; we do it because it works. Yes, your example, a doctor hippie, a great place where this judgement mechanism doesn't work, and it does NOT always work, not at all. But it works often enough, and it's so deeply ingrained in our DNA, that there's no stopping it. And, to the point of this thread, seeing a woman in "almost nothing" or clothes that are tight enough to see though, right, wrong, ugly or not, is going to activate the "sex is on offer" pathways for a lot of men. It doesn't matter what message you intent to send, it matters what message is received.

And this is a BIG part of the reason we choose the clothes we do. It's why I don't wear muscle shirts to business meetings, but do wear them to the gym. Because context matters. Skin tight yoga pants in a yoga studio probably don't raise an eyebrow, step off the plane in Dubai wearing them, you're gonna have big problems, especially if you try to cross a border. And we, as adults, are expected to KNOW this. Not like it. Not agree with it. But know it and react appropriately. And, importantly, not get all "the world should be", but "the world is" and expect people to act, well, the way that people do.

Unfortunately for all of us, myself included, who'd rather just lounge around in loose hoodies to hide our insecurities, except for maybe one or two days a week where we're in a great mood and want to flaunt our shit, there's not a human being on this planet who isn't judging our appearance, in some way, shape, or form, every time they see us.

^^This. Like it or not, your attire changes the way people react to you and see you. If you want people to see you a certain way, your going to have dramatically more success by changing your clothes to portray that image vs changing everyone else's mind that a sock is an appropriate male outfit to wear out of the house (just a sock, use your imagination). You do that, people are going to judge you, then going to arrest you. Figure out the message you want to send and dress in a way that sends that message. And if you really do just want to wear a sock (which sounds mighty nice to me), well, stay in the darn house!

Lularoos look like kids clothes for adult women.

They feel like pajamas. I think it's freakin' brilliant to introduce comfy jammies as nice clothes, lol.

Maybe we should just stop judging people by looks, clothes etc and see them as good humans first.

Yep, but the people doing it don't want to stop. I guess I wonder if it's a little passive aggressive to even put your opinion about other people's clothing out there, like "I don't judge, but just sayin' if you wear this, that, or this other--people do." Hmmm.

At my house, my kids used to add snippy or offensive comments to a discussion. They'd follow up with "Just sayin'" and it was creating nasty arguments. So now nobody is allowed to say anything followed by, "Just sayin'."

I told them, "There is no such thing as saying something without a reason or motive, otherwise you wouldn't bother saying it in the first place. Usually the reason you want to say it is to be disagreeable or difficult or ruffle someone's feathers or be mean or because you're in a bad mood yourself, so don't even bother to add just sayin' after a comment because we know that's not true or possible. This saying is officially done around here!" The five of us admitted that this was pretty true, so we stopped using the phrase.

When people share opinions about what other people do, you do have to question the motives and consider the source. Unless this opinion personally impacts you, I cannot imagine why you would be invested in sharing it, and that definitely holds true for what other people wear. If you don't like certain clothes, don't wear them. Otherwise, maybe your opinions should stay in your head.

Just sayin'.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 10:19 AM, April 6th (Saturday)]

They feel like pajamas.

Really? Though I am a guy and that would be an equivalent to me wearing leotards as pajamas. We need a cringe emoji. I would think some fleece bottoms would be more comfortable. Which I do see many women shop in those. I have never seen a guy shop in their jammies.

I'm having an aneurysm from the hypocrisy bomb above but it's a beautiful day so I'll just say agree to disagree

We can say what we think the message is. The real proof would be to ask a woman that wears daisy dukes with her butt cheeks hanging out and a muscle T (is that a halter top?) with her boobs hanging out is thinking? Would I be a creep if I asked what are you thinking with that look? What are you going for? Call me old fashioned then. I think it is inappropriate and I wouldn't let my daughter out of the house that way. I wouldn't allow her to even buy a two piece swim suit. There is no reason for a child to be showing mid drift. I guess I just contribute to the problem that it objectifies them. WTF, am I supposed to allow my daughter to dress that way because to say no objectifies her and adds to the social personification. Or am I supposed to say it for what it is to me. Inappropriate. Nothing is going to change till social media does. It isn't just men, it is women that sow that too.

I can't help but also think that change has to be implemented on the part of women too. If women don't want to be objectified/ judged/ labeled with what they wear, then women should stop doing certain ads. Posters of women in bikinis over cars with tight jeans and high heels. Victoria Secret shit. I mean. It is teaching what the style and clothing should illicit as a response. It becomes learned. If women want it different then they shouldn't take advantage of the look to illicit the sex appeal for profit, right? It is mixed messages. Mixed signals. I am not in any way shape or form saying it says rape me. I am just saying it illicits sex appeal. It just seems hypocritical to say, okay this is this to get profit and make me a model-then to say don't think what I just sold you to think. It would seem to me the people to really be angry at is the women that are selling women out by profiting off the objectifying.

The funny part about ads and market research is they base a lot of those ads on...ding ding ding...what's been statistically proven *to work*. Ad people have REAMS of market research showing exactly how to press our lizard brain buttons. They capitalize on behavior and trends more than set trends.

YEAH. In every avenue. Not just sex appeal. What color schemes to use in the Taco Bell restaurants I worked at in my 20s to grocery chains, waiting rooms. Takes me back to the Lusher Color Test days.

I don’t know.. as soon as I put on a swimsuit, I simply MUST find a motorcycle to straddle!

Hippo16: Almost ALWAYS wears 3-4 in "high-heel" shoes rarely wears anything on the bottom other than pants that are so tight she would have to take them off to fart (apologies to NTV)

I would guess from what she wears that there are streach-fit bluejeans too as she has some that fit like a second skin - like all pants she wears. She DOES do physical fitness and teaches(?) yoga and she has a perfect figure from the waist down. Above the waist - rarely wears anything tight - very rare. So all - can you comment on your interpretation of her work place appearance? (We work in an environment that is 90% married male nerds)

Please post your opinion and leave outwhat you THINK she is thinking.

I'm a little confused how to leave an opinion without making assumptions about what she's wearing, and also what the point it.

I will say that that sounds quite similar to what I wore to work for years, minus the heels -- I was in Dr. Marten boots 99% of the time, skin tight jeans (I swear, for comfort. Loose/baggy jeans annoy me. I really like feeling the tightness on my legs.) and either a long, loose tunic-y sweater or a tanktop with a long sweater/cardigan over. But I used to work in a place where there was manual labor (not so much in my position, but sometimes I was moving/delivering dirty/greasy things), so my jeans and boots weren't exactly out of place, and getting oil or grease on you/your clothes was an occasional work hazard.

Maybe we should just stop judging people by looks, clothes etc and see them as good humans first.

Not maybe, we should stop. But we won't.

It's hard for me to think like this, because I feel like life/the universe has shown me over and over and over again not to judge. To give people the benefit of the doubt, understand that most people are somewhat selfish -- not in a mean/negative way, I just mean that the person that cut you in line might have actually been deep in thought about something and distracted, and actually not realized, so instead of jumping down their throat, a better approach would be to either let it go (because will it really matter in five minutes? five days? five weeks from now?, or just politely say, "excuse me, I don't think you realized the line is back there," -- and that people are usually just doing their best to take care of themselves, their families, and function with whatever FOO and life traumas they've experienced, and so when I do find myself making a judgment about someone, I try to be aware and do my best to give them the benefit of the doubt that they're operating from a good place.

Now, en masse, I think society and people can get swept up in some pretty evil/heinous things, but I think if you sit down with someone one-on-one with a goal in mind to find common ground, everyone will be better off in the long run.

Off topic, but a very close friend was cheated on a few years back. Not married, but her LTBF got another woman pregnant (she had an abortion), but she chose to stay with him and work things out. I judged her (privately) for staying with someone that didn't even care enough about her to use protection (didn't realize how common this is with affairs).

Anyways, spent A LOT of time crying on her shoulder, and with her comforting me and helping me stay with my kids during pickup/dropoff so I wouldn't have to see my WS at the time.

I later found out she had a ONS RA with a man that was married with little kids, and that she knew who his wife and kids were.

That was a turning point for me, to realize, again, that it's not my place to judge others. WS's AP knew that he was married with little kids at home. Very few people are all good or all evil, even APs. Just like our wayward spouses, they have FOO issues, personal traumas, perhaps are unhealed BSs, and so on. Maybe they have friends and family that they're great people for/to.

My point is, finding this out about someone that held me up and would talk shit about my WS to console me helped me to stop judging the AP in my situation, and view her as a damaged individual, also worthy of love and respect, but perhaps too damaged to recognize that for herself. Who knows? But finding compassion for her has helped ME a lot.

Long (somewhat off topic) story short, the universe has shown me over and over again that I need to examine my own prejudices, stop judging other people, and just live an honest life where I do my hardest to show love, compassion and acceptance to everyone.

The crazy thing is I never thought about intentions or dress and messages till after Dday. A look was a look. It would illicit a like or not. My wife used to watch a corny TV show called love, lust, or run about style makeover. She eats that stuff up. Make-over shows. The run was usually the stuff that you would see in shows with hookers. My wife was the one that would point out to me, what the message is that was sent. The body language a co-worker did. I didn't even notice half the time. Like the time we visited my new store after the transfer and the shift manager was already up in my space and I never noticed she declined to shake my wife's hand. She informed me that the women was a fisher and to stay away. She was right. After I transferred there, she was in my personal bubble and I had to tell her to back off, you are too close. My bubble. Your bubble. My wife is quicker to label a woman as a "slut" by dress and behavior long before I would. I don't think she was always that way. I think my affair made her more cynical. I don't blame her. Considering my APs intentions were clear and they showed me. I can tell you that from personal opinion and experience from working with all women for x many years. They seem more catty and critical of dress and impressions than men do. I don't know a single man that talks about dress, but I have heard plenty from my employees in my break room about other employees or customers on dress. Women are cruel to other women.

That was a turning point for me, to realize, again, that it's not my place to judge others. WS's AP knew that he was married with little kids at home. Very few people are all good or all evil, even APs. Just like our wayward spouses, they have FOO issues, personal traumas, perhaps are unhealed BSs, and so on. Maybe they have friends and family that they're great people for/to.

I judge myself and I just hold other people to the same standards. I am evil when I am doing evil things. I am only as good as the person I am hurting. Doesn't matter that I am a saint with my family as long as I am hurting someone, I am only that good. You do bad things like cheating and you are a cheater. Then you are bad. You stop cheating and doing the shitty after Dday stuff, then you are good because you are doing good things and no longer hurting someone. I don't call that judging. I call it standards. I call it acknowledging the people you hurt instead of trying to make myself out to be a good guy dismissing the people I still choose to shit on. It is about the little guy, not all the good you do while fucking over the little guy.

IDK, maybe that is true remorse.

I don’t think it’s entirely ads. Do they ramp it up, sure, but men found women attractive and women found men attractive since the first human beings—it’s how the species was perpetuated. And the earth’s first women didn’t shave their legs and pits or wear today’s style of dress that elicited attraction—there have been periods of fairly recent history where women wore as much as possible to cover up and yet, guess what, people still had sex with each other and found each other physically attractive. It’s just the way of biology. I think sexual attraction and self-control are two completely different things.

I don’t know.. as soon as I put on a swimsuit, I simply MUST find a motorcycle to straddle!

I am not sure how to take that? So, no blame goes on the swimsuit model selling her body for the sex appeal and taking advantage of the look? Just the men for liking the look? They are only the ones to blame for the objectifying?

Agree Darkness Falls.

It was a joke. Only meant to point out the ridiculousness of the imagery. How dare you men stare when I put on skimpy things and straddle engines!!

Bad attempt at sarcasm I guess. 😳. Sorry.

[This message edited by Hg65 at 11:59 AM, April 6th (Saturday)]

The real proof would be to ask a woman that wears daisy dukes with her butt cheeks hanging out

Do you know her? Is she your wife or daughter? Then maybe you shouldn't care about what she is thinking. Let her live her life and you live yours.

I only worry about people invading my personal space or life. Otherwise, live and let live.