SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This isn't the first time Fender has mentioned his wife is happy and content in the current marriage, so it tells me he isn't pushing her to make her change, he isn't requiring it. I understand the idea of just not having the energy or desire anymore, but there is a difference between detaching and doing you whie you bide time, compared to pretending everything is ok and letting your wife think it is. Not saying you are doing that, but I find it hard to believe she can be that out of touch.

Yes, what PinkPggy said.

Are you pretending everything is ok? Why? Detaching at a minimum would allow her to feel some true consequences.

There was someone on the wayward forum who was upset that his wife kept her mouth shut as she got her ducks in a row and they are divorcing. I think she was smart. She had to get herself to a place financially that she could move on. Once someone has treated you this way you owe them nothing. Some people do reconcile successfully and some people can’t. I just hope you stay in good health while you wait. . Living this way is so stressful.

Fenderguy and Lawyerman,

I get it.

7+ years out, and my WH also thinks that we have R'd. To him, it's like his A never happened.

Meanwhile, so much has been swept under the rug.

The last time the subject of his A came up (months ago) he referred to it as "one little mistake".

What he did is bad enough, but the fact that he did not then do the work that I asked him to do

(other than a few baby steps)

adds insult to injury.

I stayed for our kids, and they are almost launched. Meanwhile I have been getting my ducks in a row. Still don't know what the final outcome will be.

At least I am finally at "meh" about WH and our marriage.

[This message edited by mchercheur at 11:22 PM, July 21st (Saturday)]

Thanks all for the great responses. Sometimes I just need to bounce my thoughts off you great people in order to make sense of what’s going through my head!

I specifically want to address what Pink has said. Yes, I did the extreme 180, and while it was great, I wasn’t really giving R or D a chance. I was just existing in limbo, ignoring my WW. So I gave R a chance, and I am finding out that it’s not really going to work out. So if it seems like I’m giving her too much slack now, it’s because I don’t really care. In my mind, I’m already gone. Pink, you compared the way I’ve handled this to the way your BH has handled it. But Mr.Pink and I have a couple differences.

1. He has an extremely remorseful wife who has done the hard work, and is willing to do so for as long as it takes.

2. He evidently wants to keep you. Otherwise, he wouldn’t have any demands of you. He wouldn’t be so hurt and angry. If he didn’t want you, he’d just be indifferent like I am.

I know he’s had several angry outbursts and has thrown the D word around, but he’s still there, willing to work with you. I have said from the beginning of my SI journey that I wish my W was more like some of the girls over on the wayward side, that might make R much easier. It was reading posts by women like PinkPggy that made me realize just how little my WW was doing to help me get over this.

Also, I don’t really pretend everything is ok. Our relationship is so platonic and roommate-ish that she probably wouldn’t really notice if I was withdrawn. I truly do believe things are exactly as she wants them. I am not being naive. She seems perfectly content with our life right now. Her priorities are 1. Kids, 2. Work, 3. Her family, and somewhere way down the list, our marriage. She insists on sex once or twice a week. Not for her enjoyment, but to keep up with some kind of quota she has. I used to try to get her to be more involved in our sex life, but I realize she isn’t going to. Might as well hit it and quit it, since that’s what is readily available to me.

Someday, I will know what it’s like to feel romance again. I will know what it’s like to have sex with someone who wants to have sex with me. I will feel respected and respectful of my partner again. I promise this. I realize that it’d be better to do it now. But my WW is almost done with college, and then she can begin her career and make a decent income. She currently just works a part time job. If we got divorced now, I’d either have to pay for an apartment for her on top of everything else, or she’d have to go live with her extremely dysfunctional parents. My kids are NOT going to live with her parents. It just can’t happen yet. I plan to be completely divorced in 2 years. I’ll be only 39, and ready for what’s next!

You have lay your requirements for R on the table. If they’re not met, you really do yourself an injustice if you dtay put. Talk of divorcing in the future is just that, talk.

Your wife is seeing your willingness to stay, as proof of everything being ok. After enduring her betrayal and being willing to give the marriage a 2nd chance , she puts forth a little bit of effort in a lackluster way. That is such a sad way to live.

You both have been here long enough to know that women despise weakness from their man. In their mind the OM was bold and went after what he wanted and of course was rewarded with probably wanton level sex. Your wife sees from your actions that you are willing to settle for less, so she gives less.

Unless the dynamic is changed, you will continue to get what you’re getting. Surviving infidelity does not mean you have to R. Having a wayward spouse that isn’t scrambling to make amends should lead you to D immediately.

Fender guy. I’m sorry it has not been a successful R.

I hope you have a life apart from your M. Your own social life with friends and activities that you enjoy without her. You can transition into your life as a single person seamlessly.

Regarding Your Wife. She may think all is ok. She’s providing or taking care of everyone in the family. It’s sad the second seems robotic. I don’t know how you can overcome that. If you have tried to discuss it (as hard as that is) - I would think she could easily make some changes. Do something different. Geez - it’s not that hard to do IMO.

I feel as though you have just given up and accepted she’s not going to change things while you don’t live a happy life.

How sad.

I feel as though you have just given up and accepted she’s not going to change things while you don’t live a happy life.

How sad.

It's true, this is how it seems. I am in a very similar (very!!!) situation, and I can look at myself a little more honestly than before. The truth is that getting my ducks in a row is a dishonest way to live. Period. And I swore--up, down, all around, the main focus of my life--that I would live an honest life, as uncomfortable and painful as that frequently is! But I am again not doing it! I am allowing a dishonest existence because my codependency feelings are kicking my butt. It is so very difficult for me to take actions that will bring a lot of chaos and turmoil to my life and the lives of my children, even though it is absolutely the right thing to do. And my H is not making it easy on me, knowing how hard this is for me.

I find my peace in my emotional honesty and detachment. He is well aware of where I am at, no affection or sex. But it is a sad way to live, an emotionally vacant way to live. It's not healthy. This 'ducks in a row' thing cannot be long-term. You didn't say years, did you?

I think there are other issues here, issues of dependency and codependency, that you are not willing to admit yet. And those issues will steal your joy. I don't want that for you. Or me.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 7:00 AM, July 22nd (Sunday)]

If there is one thing I have learned from this horrible period in my life it's that dishonesty with ourselves and others is poison. The minute that we stuff our emotions or pretend ANYTHING, we have gone to the dark side. Pretending is wayward behavior. People pretend all of the time, and that is partly what allows cheating into people's minds as a coping mechanism. People pretend:

To be friends

To not be friends

To be in love

To not be hurt

To not be angry

To be "fine"

To not see the big picture

To not see the slippery slope

To not want things

To want things

To care

To not care

To be happy

There is no more troublesome behavior than living a dishonest life, both lying to ourselves and lying to others. Because lying to yourself LEADS to lying to others. And that is how we all got on this website in the first place.

It is the main reason that I must force my H to divorce--I cannot stand the lying to the kids about our M. And our pretending is lying. And it haunts me. Don't be me, FenderGuy.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 7:12 AM, July 22nd (Sunday)]

Has she ever talked about the pain she caused you.

There is a big difference between remorse and regret.

If she can’t understand what she did to you then she doesn’t get it

You do have a golden opportunity to open up a discussion with her about what you read in the email.

Sorry but that sucks for you and her. I was NOT willing to live like that. I'd rather my husband divorce me than live like roommates and pretending everything was ok. Part of me thinks she also knows in 2 years she will have her degree and full time job and then she will be gone. I'm pretty sure she has a plan. She is doing the bare minimum to keep you on the hook until she can get the life she wants. I wouldn't drop your gaurd.

I understand your reasons but that sounds like torture. I hate feeling like there is a wall between me and my husband, it would give me anxiety. I can tell your posts went from hopeful and trying to just flat and disengaged. It is clear she isn't putting in the work. It makes me just think she is hanging around for her own benefit.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 8:34 AM, July 22nd (Sunday)]

Hang on, this is silly. I think I am in a similar situation to Fenderguy (I'm a Gibsonguy by the way if this is about guitars ). But to state that this is misery is not correct.

People D and if you look at the D board or New beginnings, plenty of lonely, miserable people.

I don't feel like I am suffering any more pain than I would any other way. WW has caused me immense pain and I would suggest that is almost wayward thinking to say that you have to immediately D and be instantly happy. Most times, not going to happen. Then there are kids. There is money and property. For me, blowing up my kid's world would be selfish if I can be a grown up and do it better.

You want me to go from being wealthy and settled to living in a cardboard box on a principle? Not a chance.

It's easy to say just file but when you have invested everything you had in a relationship and the law in your state is not on your side, you are duty bound to your kids at least, and yourself to do the right thing. It may not be the right thing for the WS but that's tough shit.

^^ I agree with all that. I also know if we didn't have kids and live in a 50/50 no fault state my husband would have walked out on DDay and not looked back. He stands to lose half our home equity, half his pension and half our savings. I was a stay at home mom up until 2 years ago.

I guess what's not computing in my brain is why not require more from your wayward spouse. Demand it. That's what I don't understand. Why stay and tolerate the behavior?

Of course, Lawyerman. I am in a similar situation and feel somewhat the same as you. However, some things for you to consider:

1. Many waywards think this same stuff which is how they decide to cheat instead of divorce.

2. Hating (or not loving or betraying) your spouse while "pretending" not to is . . . choose your descriptor. Cowardly?

3. Your children may sense the reality and feel betrayed by the fake family. Especially when the truth comes out.

4. It's dishonest. And dishonesty is never the best policy.

5. Our family therapist flat out will not work with us unless we are either trying to save our marriage or trying to divorce with dignity. She wants nothing to do with a dysfunctional family of fakers and said there's nothing to work with, no ground to stand on. (My name calling, she was a bit more pc.)

6. It's martyrdom. Martyring yourself is more codependent and cowardly than admirable.

7. You aren't happy. And neither is FenderGuy. Or you wouldn't be complaining about the situation here. Staying and complaining is codependent, victim thinking. Healthy people who are unhappy do something about it.

8. Handling infidelity by staying and resenting and remaining miserable is taking a bad situation and turning it toxic.

Not judging because as I said, I've been doing the same thing!!!! But I am trying so hard to change it. I'm scared though, and it's hard.

Have you done IC, Lawyerman? Have you, FenderGuy?

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 1:27 PM, July 22nd (Sunday)]

The key here I think is time. I raged. I ranted. I shouted. I broke down. I cried and cried. But over time I have come to see that I just need more time to get this right.

I am not holding off D in case I have some sort of epiphany. I am holding off D for purely practical reasons and kids are one of them. Maybe they will hate me for it. Maybe they will thank me for it. I don't have a manual for parenting. I just try my best to be a good parent.

I have demanded what I needed from my WS and her answer was that she was going to file and that would have cost her, me and my kids a LOT of tax. I won't explain why but it would. But she still desperately wants me to stay. Problem is, I am dealing with an unstable person. It's not as simple as just giving them a list. She won't ever change I think she has a personality disorder and they can't be cured.

So here I am. Maybe miserable. BUT. Prepared to accept that for a better tomorrow. I have a road map of what I need to do in case it all goes nuclear and I'm doing those things. They would be far harder to sort out if she was awarded my house for instance. I can just do them now but it takes a little time and some money.

I am fully prepared to accept the 'misery' so that I can get my stuff sorted out so that when I do pull the plug, there will be nothing much to talk about other than custody.

I see what you are saying and I know it is dishonest and that hurts me to be that way but I didn't put me here. She did. Actually what I am trying to do is make everything 50/50 and our kids happy in settled homes. Her plan would be to blow everything to shit. That's just who she is.

I get both sides. Owning It Now had great points.

We have neighbors two houses up that lived like that. Everyone in the neighborhood knew it was a marriage of necessity until finances and kids could be sorted out. The wife went from staying at home to working, they sold her van, the older kid finally went to high school Over the years it broke down even further to where they didnt speak and the wife finally moved out a few weeks ago. It really hit me hard. It was sad and just confirmed for me I could not live like that!

Pink, the reason I don’t demand more from my WS is because I don’t care anymore. After DDAY, I had demands. She pretended to be remorseful. She has shown me over the last year and a half that she doesn’t give a flying fuck about me. She thinks I have unrealistic expectations of what married life is like, and I’m not just talking about sex. She says all married couples eventually turn into platonic roommates.

I could probably raise hell and make demands, but there’s nothing I really want from her anymore, except to divorce me and give me the opportunity to find real love. Pink is right, I was hopeful for R. I gave it my all, I really did. I wanted to stay with her. But she simply saw that as me being ready to rugsweep it. I am not naive, but I’m pretty sure she’s not just putting in her time until she can support herself in her own. She talks all the time about future plans, short and long term. She was even telling me how someday we should offer to babysit our grandkids one night a month, so that our kids can have opportunities for date nights. It really upsets her that we don’t often get date nights. I know it seems unusual, but I truly believe she is content with her life now. I have researched, and I don’t think she wants to leave me. I wish she did.

Lawyerman (Gibsonguy), it does seem like we are in the same boat. I too am a pretty successful guy, and hope to be worth a decent amount by the time I die. My goal, my dream, is to be able to pass everything down to my children. Otherwise, what’s the point in building yourself up? I’d rather not give half of my net worth to my WW so she can spend it all on some new boyfriend. My household is not miserable. WW and I actually get along fairly well, so it’s not like our kids are subjected to a lot of fighting or anything. Like you, I have a hard time wrapping my head around ruining my kids lives just because Mommy hurt my feelings. I don’t intend to live like this forever, but it’s not as simple as some people seem to think it is. If we were childless, I’d have left on DDAY and never looked back.

Also lawyerman, though I am a fenderguy, I am looking at getting a Les Paul before the year is over. I’ve always wanted one, and it feels like the right time. My band is kind of on a hiatus this summer, due to 2 band members having brand new babies in the house. We’re probably not going to book any gigs until next spring, as the winter scene around here is pretty dead. Looking forward to finally adding a LP, I currently have 2 strats and a Tele.

Owning, that list really spoke to me. Am I any worse than a cheater at this point? That is a tough question and I’m not sure I like the answer. I don’t feel hostile towards WW. I don’t want to make her pay, I don’t feel like she deserves to be strung along believing in R until I say I’m ready to D.

We had a moment yesterday. We got invited to this cookout, hosted by some friends. We didn’t know anybody except the hosts, who were too busy hosting to talk. All the other couples were not talking. Imagine 20 adults at a party trying to avoid each other, while all our kids were running and playing. Wife and I were sitting on the couch, texting each other about how awkward it was, trying to figure out an exit strategy, giggling to each other about weird people. It felt really good to be each other’s person at that awkward “party”. It felt good to be on the same page. I forgot about everything in that moment. The A, R or D, our sex life, our problems. Then it all came back to me, and I thought “why did she have to have an A?”

I tried IC shortly after DDAY. He put me om anti anxiety meds, which have helped me a lots. But, he mainly just tried to link everything back to my childhood. Perhaps I need to try again. I have never thought of myself as weak or codependent, but maybe I am.

People D and if you look at the D board or New beginnings, plenty of lonely, miserable people.

I don't feel like I am suffering any more pain than I would any other way.

I think you will find pain all over SI as we struggle to get out of infidelity. I do not know which path is best for each individual. I just know me and the path I am on is the right one. I hurt like hell. But, that is from the infidelity not the protracted divorce.

There's a difference between lying to yourself to justify doing horrible things to get what you want and lying to your spouse so that you and your children aren't hurt.

Sometimes deception is necessary for self-protection. Would you shame a wife who was being abused physically for playing nice while saving up for a lawyer? If not, it shouldn't be part of this conversation either.