SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This is exactly it's never worth the risk of taking a POS cheater back for reconciliation. Once a POS cheater, always a POS cheater.

This is a misplaced use of the terms "never" and "always." I had one A before I was married. I was not honest about the extent of it, and that was devastating to my BH when the TT finally came out. I'm working hard to prevent a future of "once a liar, always a liar." But it's been 30 years, and I've never cheated again. I guess you could argue that we won't know for sure until I'm dead, but I'm hoping you have at least 40 years left to wait for that final verdict.

Hi MR.

Just now saw this. Read the first page.

I'm hurting for you guys. Dont know what else to say right now other than. Find the truth.

As as for once a cheater post always a cheater pos.

Nope.not true.

I'm a BS, and I have some very practical suggestions. I'm a lawyer and also very clinical in how I address issues. I'm a reader and a researcher so IMO regardless of what happens with your BS, you need to figure out how to get some help with all of this.

First I also want to thank you. The harsh reality is that this shit happens, so thanks.

My heart stopped when I started reading your posts. Thank you so much for posting. I know it wasn't easy and you knew that these posts would trigger some people, but posted anyway. Thank you for that.

Now for my suggestions:

1) Start interviewing new IC's and tell them exactly what you've said here. Why you think IC has failed in the past. What you are looking to address. That you need someone to take control and to not let you because you think that is precisely one of your issues.

2) Do some research on your own about attachment theory and narcissism and see where you fit. (Yeah, this is FOO but seriously, that's where it's at for most of us so you may as well dive in as what do you have to lose at this point anyway).

3) Start holding yourself accountable for your actions. Yes, this means writing shit down. Do you have a problem with dishonesty (aside from the affair - do you lie about things that don't matter? Do you lie to make yourself look better?) If so, write down whenever you do that and why you did it. Doing something sneaky or something that you are unsure of? Write it down and make yourself explain the why to YOU...and then go back and read that shit later. If YOU can't personally stomach your "whys" then you know you've fucked up.

The reason for item 3 is many. First, you can't say later "IDK why I did that" as you will. Second, sometimes the act of writing down why you did something makes you seem how stupid/pathetic/lame/miserable whatever it was immediately. Third, you have a LOT of fodder for your IC that you can't talk your way out of.

Welcome back, I think if I were in your shoes I'd come back here too. Why wouldn't I, or you, or anyone else? The first wave and to no surprise was harsh. Ya know, first impression I don't think you are necessarily a narcissist or sociopath. I don't know anything about what you did or didn't do. I don't know anything about you at all but I think you just didn't do "the work".

I know I need help. I just don't know how. When I say I truly felt like I worked hard last time, I really truly mean it. I'm at a loss on how to get started and how to TRULY fix the broken.

I'm thinking you overcompensated and white knuckled the shit out of the first time and the years that passed before the second A. That you remained on the surface and that made you a candidate for a repeat. Change is hard and not everyone achieves it. I'm not a huge fan of using the word "broken" just call it what it is, self-worth. Starting there would be my advice.

You also mentioned coping or lack of. I can relate to this because I think this is the hardest part of it all, truly, because it's what we are most used to to get us through life's challenges and there are plenty of them before we are forced to face it. I still struggle to cope in healthy ways. Numbing my go to when the best thing is to actually work through and FEEL the difficult feelings To cope is to comfort yourself or self-soothe and it's damn hard to get comfortable with the uncomfortable when all you want is comfort. But with just some time and experience with trying on "healthy" I personally found that it can be just as satisfying.

So, self-worth and healthy coping it's the only place I know where to start. My work isn't about NOT cheating again that actually hardly crosses my mind it's about building myself up to where cheating isn't even an option and that I have more self-respect than that.

I'm not so sure that you were fooled by the slippery slope again, your first A was just the same. I could easily say slippery slope too turning into a complete nose dive. During that time I was aware and making these conscious actions, but what made it slippery was that I was THE compartmentalization queen and completely selfish. I'll say it out loud that I don't care how many years pass I will no doubt recognize that again it won't be a surprise or something that I just allow myself to fall into. There was resistance before I just didn't act on it because it was easier not to. Because I didn't have to forgo any comfort or instant gratification. I've picked up a couple things that I value higher than that now and you need that value as well. Find it.

If over 8000 posts and 14 years on this site were not enough to make you “get it” then I don’t see how even 8000 more posts and 14 more years would make any difference.

If years of reading here, reading all of the pain the heartache the destruction even the loss of life that infidelity so often results in weren’t enough to keep you from repeating your actions? Nothing any of us say here is likely to make a damn bit of difference.

As nearly as I can figure the only likely result of your continuing to post here would be a massive and devastating blow to the last tiny shred of hope and optimism a whole lot of people on here are trying to hold onto.

I am sorry to say it and I never have before, but I hope you don’t continue posting here. The very sad and unfortunate fact is that you, your very existence, is every single BS’ worst nightmare. And you knew that. After all your time here you knew that. And still you did it. You didn’t just betray your husband, you betrayed the entire spirit of this place and every person who comes here for help.

Again, I am sorry to have to say that but it’s simply the truth. I hope you find real help, competent professional help. Help that clearly SI has been unable to provide you.

I'm thinking you overcompensated and white knuckled the shit out of the first time and the years that passed before the second A. That you remained on the surface and that made you a candidate for a repeat. Change is hard and not everyone achieves it.

^^^^^ This.

This probably *felt* like "the work" but it wasn't "the work" because you were concentrating on riding it out instead of really looking for whys and challenging your thinking.

"The work" involves confronting ugly truths about yourself, your behaviors and the feelings those behaviors evoked in others (mainly the deep hurt of betrayal for your spouse). "The work" means you let the (hopefully) qualified therapist work with you to challenge those thoughts, that you work *with* them to confront yourself instead of avoiding and deflecting those sorts of confrontations and challenges.

Cat

HT, as with most everything it's quality vs quantity. I want to believe our BSs here will not take one poster's fail at overcoming their pitfalls as absolute truth in all of us.

We can be Judas and preach the way yet still take a turn at the last moment. It's what's in one's heart and no one knows the depths often times the owner of said heart. It's the work she didn't do not the time or effort "here".

As nearly as I can figure the only likely result of your continuing to post here would be a massive and devastating blow to the last tiny shred of hope and optimism a whole lot of people on here are trying to hold onto.

I am sorry to say it and I never have before, but I hope you don’t continue posting here. The very sad and unfortunate fact is that you, your very existence, is every single BS’ worst nightmare.

1. This is reality. Sometimes cheaters cheat again. It happens.

2. This is the wayward forum. She is a wayward. She has a right to post here looking for help if she so desires.

3. Again, this is REALITY. When you choose to reconcile with a cheater, sometimes they choose to cheat again. Sometimes a week after d-day, sometimes a year after d-day, sometimes a decade after d-day. Are you REALLY saying that she shouldn't post so some BS's can pretend that time and posting on SI is somehow a guarantee their partner is now safe? And it isn't a possibility that attempting to reconcile could end up with being cheated on again?

Ignorance is not bliss. Sometimes cheaters cheat again. There are no guarantees reconciliation is going to work. And every WS that posts here isn't your WS.

Are you REALLY saying that she shouldn't post so some BS's can pretend that time and posting on SI is somehow a guarantee their partner is now safe? And it isn't a possibility that attempting to reconcile could end up with being cheated on again?

Nope. What I said is I hope she doesn’t. And I stand by that.

I don’t fool myself into thinking there are any guarantees. But it troubles me that so few successfully R’d couples continue to post here while more and more repeat offenders pop up everyday. And there are people here that will point to stories like this one as evidence that there is simply no hope, no redemption.

Maybe it is some form of burying my head in the sand but this particular thread strikes me as particularly damaging. She will do what she likes and SI will support it but I am allowed to have an opinion and to wish people didn’t have this as one of the few examples here of the results of long term R.

It's true this is the worst possible outcome I can think of. It doesn't make me fearful of my future I know that much and we see this here all the time it's actually rare that a WS posts "I'm back again" you see it in our BSs posts and I guess there's just something about it being a WS posting it.

I've seen in the "back again" posts from our BSs that there are usually D comments but also comments on how to regain the M. People R after one, two, or even more ddays specifically more As. It's hard to withstand another nuke but doable under certain circumstances.

I'm not exactly thrilled that MR is all of a sudden our current representation and frankly she shouldn't be, she is NOT all of us. She is but one if you take into count of 70,000 members at least here, common sure, but one.

I think she is welcome to post, but would get more herself by reading. Someone with her personality does not need to become Star Poster II.

I always say that words mean nothing from a WS. It's true. Many WS are voluminous in their posting, it really doesn't mean anything. Actions do.

...still no stop sign, so I'm just going to say that HoldingTogether articulated my thoughts very well, and this bears repeating:

If over 8000 posts and 14 years on this site were not enough to make you “get it” then I don’t see how even 8000 more posts and 14 more years would make any difference.

If years of reading here, reading all of the pain the heartache the destruction even the loss of life that infidelity so often results in weren’t enough to keep you from repeating your actions? Nothing any of us say here is likely to make a damn bit of difference.

As nearly as I can figure the only likely result of your continuing to post here would be a massive and devastating blow to the last tiny shred of hope and optimism a whole lot of people on here are trying to hold onto.

I am sorry to say it and I never have before, but I hope you don’t continue posting here. The very sad and unfortunate fact is that you, your very existence, is every single BS’ worst nightmare. And you knew that. After all your time here you knew that. And still you did it. You didn’t just betray your husband, you betrayed the entire spirit of this place and every person who comes here for help.

Again, I am sorry to have to say that but it’s simply the truth. I hope you find real help, competent professional help. Help that clearly SI has been unable to provide you.

[This message edited by Hope2B at 7:14 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)]

Just wanna say i'm glad you posted. I can see how it's problematic for both some WS and some BS (I certainly felt pretty crummy when reading the OP). And I think it's accurate to say we see many BS who post here after a post-R 2nd A (and there DOES seem to be quite few lately), but I'm glad that a WS who had another A after R is sharing. Triggering? Sure. And also an opportunity to gain insight and understanding.

We are horrified of say, a train crash. It's tragic and people can be hurt/killed and it can instill some pretty uncomfortable feelings. But, the engineers and investigators and others will LEARN from the crash and use that knowledge for a better product/process next time. Not only for that particular type of train, but for all trains.

As we see all the time on SI: You can't change the past.

We can't change that the OP had another A. But we can try and learn from it.

Maybe the OP will get there, maybe not. But I thought one of the purposes of SI is to learn from and support each other - regardless of the particular outcomes.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 9:09 PM, May 8th, 2019 (Wednesday)]

I'm not familiar with your posting style, but you sound really emotionally distant, kind of disconnected from it, almost like an observer watching an event in someone else's life. It reads like you know you did a bad thing and that the consequences could be catastrophic to your family dynamic, but like you're just not feeling it. If you're numbed to a nonfunctional degree, that's concerning.

I know you said that you don't feel like IC works with you, and honestly.. I kind of get having the ability to "manage" your therapist. But maybe you might need a much tougher IC, one skilled in psychotherapy and trauma.

I might be reading you wrong, but if not... I think that's your best bet. Interview a bunch of them, and then go with the hard-ass, the one you can't "manage".

Good luck.

This makes for very disturbing reading, for many reasons which others have already mentioned. What strikes me is that I'm not convinced you are actually mindful in and understanding of your own actions.

I would have rather been hit by a bus, in all honesty.

No, you really wouldn't. This seems a calculated phrase, to try and convince readers that you were feeling really, really bad... But this cheapens the despair felt by those who *have* taken drastic action or suffered something physically devastating, because it would be pretty easy to walk into the road in front of a bus, compared to the sequence of actions and decisions which led to two A. And both of those A were a choice.

Comments like this read as manipulative,

inauthentic and controlling of the readers impressions, to me. You might not realise this. But I think it implies that you don't really understand yourself or what you actually want. Maybe from unresolved FOO issues? But you owe it to everyone to sort yourself out, from FOO issues onwards.

(I'm obviously not implying you should have walked out in front of a bus instead of having an A. Hyperbole is not going to help you understand your issues. )

Carissima

You sound very detached in your post, to me there is no real regret for the hurt and devastation done to your husband, indeed you go directly to how angry hrs been since your previous affair. I wonder how much resentment you've been holding against him for this.

I wonder that too! Seems that you have a lot of resentment against him. Obviously a lot of WHs have an A to act out their resentment they feel toward their BSs.

Maybe he was angry, because he sensed deep down, that you have not changed. That you only talked and acted properly but without remorse and empathy.

Sometimes I think that the book suggested here (How to help your spouse heal...), should have a title - How to manipulate your BS to believe that you care, when honestly not, instead. Someone without empathy should not read that book - it helps them to lie to BS and hurt them more.

Btw, I think that when having the "right" circumstances, almost every WS will cheat again.

*****posting as a member*****

I'm not going to have time to answer each individual posts, I'm sorry. Like I said, I'm not sure why I posted. I'm really sorry I've triggered so many.

I think this statement is really the crux of the problem with this thread. If you aren’t willing or able to answer questions that members are naturally going to have, what is the true motivation for posting?

You said that you have answered some of the questions with honesty, however when asked what you were thinking in order to avoid the red flags a second time, you stated “I wasn’t thinking” about my husband. After working through your first affair, I would hope that you realize that answer isn’t really an answer. It goes so much deeper.

If you had a willingness to answer questions honestly, then yes, we (both you and the members here) could learn from this experience. Unfortunately it feels like instead that you unloaded everyone’s worst nightmare and then walked away leaving the rest of us to process and clean up the mess.

What was your motivation for this post? Was it to unload your own burden? Appease your husband? Maybe get him to pull the trigger for a divorce? Or do you really want to do the work? I think that might be a good place to start.

Take care and good luck.

[This message edited by QuietDan at 2:00 AM, May 26th (Sunday)]

I've been asked to not post and let this thread die, by more than one person (how many on this thread?) and via pm. I will continue to read here and down the line will perhaps start to post.

I will say that there were many helpful posts and it has had the benefit of waking me up emotionally. I'd been feeling numb and frozen for a long time now. For that, I'm grateful. The first step will be to find an IC and work through my issues. There was a suggestion made to BH by someone from SI of a therapist in our area who may be a good fit. I will check it out.

duplicate post.

[This message edited by ibonnie at 6:42 AM, May 9th (Thursday)]