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I asked my W wife today, “You are a devout cradle Catholic, so how did you reconcile your 3+ year PA with your married AP with your faith and belief in Christian marriage? Her answer, “I told you, I was crazy.” End of discussion. Does that ring true with anyone or is it just more rug sweeping?

Define it anyway you want. If it looks like dog poop and smells like dog poop - it's a steaming pile of poop.

It is what she tells herself so she doesn't have to face her inner demons and be honest with herself.

Cognitive Dissonance at its finest

My fch is Catholic, too, although not devout. I asked him the same question. He doesn't have an answer. One thing my dad told me was that it may be that cheating is considered better than divorce. Although, the bible does allow for divorce, so I'm told, many religious people believe it is not ok under any circumstances.

Catholics are all about repenting. Basically, they can do whatever they want as long as they confess and ask for forgiveness. What is that saying? "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission" My fch told me that even though I am atheist and have been all my life, I could be saved on my deathbed if I were to confess, accept JC as my savior, andask for forgiveness. It's freakin' crazy!

It sounds like to me she doesn't have a good answer so she threw that out in the wind to see if it would stick.

I am the WS in my situation. I look back on that time sometimes as I was crazy for doing what I did. So, I can understand it being used as a loose expression. I was acting irrationally in so many ways. At the same, we have to have accountability that we still made those willful decisions. When someone says "I can't explain it because I was crazy" it's not an explanation, it's an excuse.

The answer is she just avoided thinking about it, she compartmentalized that part of her life. She acted hypocritically, and in a way that didn't align herself with her faith. It's really not different than the idea that she also discarded you, any children you may have, and all her other moral beliefs. There was a trade off that she found more valuable at that time in her life. And, I can almost guarantee that it wasn't the AP, it was whatever motivated her to have the affair. Whatever it was she was seeking in it.

I don't know how far out you guys are, but if she figures out why she did what she did, and becomes introspective she can possibly change in a way she will not be susceptible to that type of behavior in the future. But, someone just saying they were crazy is not someone being introspective. And unless she shows more motivation to become introspective - wanting to understand how she could do something so horrible - then she will not be a safe person to reconcile with.

[This message edited by hikingout at 12:43 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)]

My CH attended church with his married catholic AP. Yup she also did and does figure she will be forgiven. Just another reason I am not religious. Morality is my religion.

Hikingout I think this is where my WS is. We had a good discussion recently and she essentially sees that for a time she was crazy, addicted, etc. She’s very careful with any male relationships now and knows there is no such thing as a male friend with whom she can spend any real time with alone or having heartfelt discussions. She has not been able to hit the remorse stage yet because of her long held bitterness over my own failings as a husband, which are admittedly real but which I believe have been rectified. I still in her mind have to prove I’m the husband she needs in order to have an intimate relationship. I’m willing to continue to work on the marriage and be the man she needs, but she essentially has skipped the remorse stage. Regret she has - remorse - the kind that I have seen you and other WS on these boards demonstrate - that has not yet arrived in my view. And yes, she acted for four years in direct contrast to her faith, to the point she seemed to still believe she was mostly a good Christian who struggled with her failings. I think there is some truth to that reality for all who take their faith seriously, but I think she’s built a wall of justification to protect her from seeing she really made all of these evil choices and made them deliberately even as I was begging her to return, to admit to what was going on, etc.

Catholics are all about repenting. Basically, they can do whatever they want as long as they confess and ask for forgiveness.

This cradle Catholic was never taught that. Anyone who believes that have no true understanding. Repentance involves not repeating the sin. And there is always the chance that you could die before you confess.

[This message edited by northeasternarea at 1:39 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)]

Her answer, “I told you, I was crazy.” End of discussion. Does that ring true with anyone or is it just more rug sweeping?

Friend, why do you keep beating your head against a brick wall and wondering why your face is dripping in blood? It's not mere rug sweeping. It is flat-out denial and refusal to address reality.

The actual answer is because she wanted to do it and at the time her desire to do it was stronger than her desire to live her faith.

My wife held herself in very high regard. Self-righteous, you might say. She was part of 3 bible studies, did 2 more on her own, taught our kids Bible lessons, etc.

When I caught her, I asked straight up "How in the #$@! can you possibly be doing what you're doing and call yourself a Christian?" Her response? "Stop mocking me!"

To this day (3 years later), she still cannot answer that question. She has said things like "Satan had a hold of me and was doing whatever he wanted." To which I reply "If you were really a believer, then Satan would have had no power to control you. He cannot make you sin (a reference to James 1:13-15 about free will). He can only whisper lies. You chose to act."

Using "the Devil" or "I was crazy" or anything of that sort is complete and total minimization, trying to make themselves feel better. The truth of the matter is this: they were hypocrites. They believed themselves to be incapable of the sins they were committing and their pride was their downfall. They have a horribly difficult time recognizing (first) and ultimately acknowledging their hypocrisy.

One thing my dad told me was that it may be that cheating is considered better than divorce. Although, the bible does allow for divorce, so I'm told, many religious people believe it is not ok under any circumstances.

I've seen that attitude with some catholics, I find it very odd. I'm orthodox (as in the eastern orthodox) and our church allows for divorce and remarriage in it (regulated of course). Priests also are allowed to marry and have children, which I think is a good thing.

It might be that they want to remain married in the church, but still have their cake too.

Using "the Devil" or "I was crazy" or anything of that sort is complete and total minimization, trying to make themselves feel better. The truth of the matter is this: they were hypocrites. They believed themselves to be incapable of the sins they were committing and their pride was their downfall. They have a horribly difficult time recognizing (first) and ultimately acknowledging their hypocrisy.

The devil made me do it lol. I agree with this 100%.

The other curious statement she made was that after their first weekend Sex romp, she felt guilt and remorse. When I then asked why it happened over 4 more weeks that year she said “ because I knew it was wrong and I kept trying to fix it. I thought that if I just saw him again I could put an end to it and make it right again. I wanted to be his friend.” I stared at her for a full minute and then said” So you thought that traveling half way across the US to meet him in a hotel where you then shacked up with him to fuck over the next 5-7 days each time was going to fix your ‘mistake’”? She said, “yes, I thought I could change what was going on. I know now I was being manipulated”.

Am I missing something here when it comes to the “Brain Fog” I keep hearing WS’s talk about?

I have serious issues with her mentality that

“she was being manipulated”.

She’s joking right?

You are a devout cradle Catholic, so how did you reconcile your 3+ year PA with your married AP with your faith and belief in Christian marriage?

I’m not a big fan of these types of questions, bringing religion into it. I’m sure we all can unfortunately find thousands of examples of people of various faiths not living up to the tenets or spirit of that faith. It occurs in all avenues of life, not just infidelity.

The answer is, people are people. Full stop. And people do crappy things. If your spouse vowed to love and cherish and be faithful when you got married, but broke those vows, why do you think religion would have stopped them? Whatever they used to rationalize, justify or plain give in to having an affair in the first place is the same thing that allowed them to do that despite their religious beliefs.

still in her mind have to prove I’m the husband she needs in order to have an intimate relationship. I’m willing to continue to work on the marriage and be the man she needs, but she essentially has skipped the remorse stage.

Stop. How many years have you been doing this? She's never going to hit true remorse and really appreciate you if she hasn't yet. You shouldn't have to prove anything to her. Either she loves you, or she doesn't.

Right, nea, but if you do it again, it's still ok because you are only human and a sinner by design. You just repent and try again.

Walloped, I think it's an extremely valid question to ask of someone who claims to be religious. If nothing else, maybe it will get them to see their own hypocrisy.

My wife turned her back on everything in her life.

She turned her back on her faith.

She turned her back on her personal values.

She turned her back on me and her children and all of her family.

She loved her work, but she put her job at risk -- and it actually cost her her career with that company.

But a big clue for me should have been that she stopped going to church during the A, and it had previously been important to her.

I think it shows how far some people will go to feel 'valued' -- even by not good people -- despite the damage done.

While my H and I are not religious people, we do believe in God, but don't go to church much.

His AP however, claims to be "such a good church person", yet slept with a married man for a year while she was married as well. I have seen NUMEROUS photos, videos of her singing in the church choir, playing in the church band they have, attending all the church functions and is even one of the upper board members!

How she isn't struck by lightning every time she walks through the church doors is beyond me. It comes across to me that she does it for HER and the impression she puts out there and not for the love of God. It seems that when "religious people" have A's, they feel the rules of God and church don't apply to them. They do what ever the hell they want.

I agree that your wife may have taken a leave of absence of her mind while involved in her A, but she still needs to face her shit and fix it.

I struggle a lot with this question. After 4 years still to some extent. I keep asking my husband, myself and God why. I did everything right. I "waited" until marriage, married a nice Christian boy who grew up in Church, put thought and prayer into who I married, sought councel with other pastors before marriage and it still went bad. It was not suppose to happen.

People are not God, they sin and it's not about me.

I've got issue with your CW saying she was manipulated, too. Does she really want you to think she's that stupid? No one with any sense thinks meeting their lover in a hotel is going to stop the cheating. If that's what you want to do, you meet at a coffee shop.

My fch tried to pull that kind of bullshit with me. He told me he didn't have any expectation, or even a thought, that sex might happen when he had the MOW over to his place for dinner. This was after weeks of sexting. And, then the 2nd time, after she had given him a BJ the 1st time, still no thought or expectation of sex. Really?! And, he wonders why I think he's an idiot.

It might be that they want to remain married in the church

This just made something click in my head. We were not married in the church because I am not Catholic. I wasn't about to be relegated to the aisle as if I wasn't quite good enough. We got married at a quaint B&B. I wonder if that means our M isn't as valid in my fch's mind.

I don't think that would be the case because he's not really religious. He only goes to church once a year. But, who knows? There's a lot of stuff that goes on in his mind that even he isn't aware of.