SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

you KNOWN he was THE BEST for you

I think many many many people have absolutely no idea if their future spouse is “THE BEST” for them or not.

Honestly, I do get why sex is hugely important, but I would never make it a large part of why you want to reconcile. The hands-down best technical-skills level sex I ever had was in a short-lived relationship with a sociopath. The best emotional sex was with my XWH. I've had many "wow, this guy is the best at ____" moments and I expect I'll have that moment again. There are a lot of people out there that any of us can find strong sexual chemistry with. There is no "the one" for any of us.

it turns to ether Biological Differences between women and men, or I cant change my sex values because that who I am and you have to live with it if you want to reconcile

This is what your CW says to you? Or, this is what you believe? While there are obvious physical sexual differences between men and women, there aren't really any biological sexual desire differences between men and women. IOW, contrary to popular belief, men do not universally have higher sex drives than women. That's a fallacy perpetuated by men to control women. And, yes, women have fallen for it, too.

Many women are sexually repressed. That doesn't mean they don't want sex. They just don't think it's ok to initiate it. There's the old adage about the woman you have sex with vs. the woman you marry. That might explain why a CW would be more sexual in an A than in a M. If she's not concerned about marriage or respect, i.e. in an A, she can be more bold. In an M, she may be afraid her H won't respect her if she's sexually bold or adventurous. I'm not saying that is ok or makes sense, but it is a mindset that has been ingrained into our culture.

I would say I have a higher sex drive than my H. My H says he always wants it, but he doesn't do anything about it. I am almost always the initiator, even if it's just me talking about it. Things have slowly declined as we've aged. While I don't consider myself less sexually desirable, in general, I do wonder if my H doesn't really desire me anymore. Of course, he says he does. But, like we always say on here, actions over words.

There are many things you may have to love with if you want to R. There will always be a certain degree of rugsweeping in R, imo. I don't see how a BP can R without swallowing at least some of the shit sandwich.

That doesn't mean you have to love with it. You always have the choice to D. Then, you can fund someone who is more sexually compatible with you if that's what you want. Keep in mind, though, that there will always be some difference in libido and adventurousness.

Anyway, my point is that SEX is very important in R, and the WS should change their value in sex to give their husband/wife some certainty in life, not just LIVING WITH IT

Sex is very important to you in R. You feel your CW should change her value in sex so that you will have some certainty. She doesn't have to do anything you want, though. You always have the option of D if she doesn't. One thing that I very strongly think no BP should do is try to coerce or force sex with the CP. That is abusive.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this or not, but there's also a difference in quantity vs. quality. When I say sex matters very much to me, I'm talking quality. I have no desire to waste my time and energy having mediocre sex every day. I'd rather have phenomenal sex once or twice a week. Of course, phenomenal sex more often would be nice, but there isn't always time for that. Others might mean quantity, or frequency.

What do y'all mean when you say sex matters? More, better, everything your CP did with the AP? Or, is it just more of a demonstration of desire for you?

I think if you are trying for R then (at least for me) one very important thing is to FEEL desired.. I think this applies to both sexes as your Self esteem takes a pounding from the affair.

It also feels totally hypocritical when the WS says they struggle to unleash that very sexual side with you that they gave the AP.. As they did it SO easily with them.

To me we both still struggle with this as she did things for the AP that i would have liked to try with her.. But now are almost off the table as she says she does not want to re enact the affair with me...

Within R sex itself might not be a big thing.. But ANY sexual issues become huge issues especially when it is the WS attempting to go back to your old sex life.. As to the BS that obviously didnt tick all the boxes, hence the need for the affair.. And refusing to even contemplate changes in this area cam create a fear that nothing has Changed so it will happen again.

That is where i am now.. Scared that things in the bedroom will go back to how they were.. Just now with the knowledge that that wasnt enough for her.

I think if you are trying for R then (at least for me) one very important thing is to FEEL desired.

That's a very good point, especially since 'feeling desired' is so close to 'feeling loved.'.

I see 2 elements in that. The first is whether or not one partner shows desire for the other.

But the bigger part in feeling desired/loved is that one has to choose to feel desired/loved.

IMO, many WSes don't feel the love that their BSes gave them. I know for a fact that my W rejected most of the love I gave her. There was nothing I could do to make her feel loved - she has to decide what love is for her, she has to evaluate whether she's getting it, and she has to choose to let the love in or not. She also had to figure out how to demonstrate that she was taking in love from me, and part of R for her is fighting her tendency to reject love.

She had to show me her desire to be with my by 'talking' my love language.

But for R to succeed, at some point I had to accept that she desired and loved me. That was a scary, risky step.

At some point, both BS and WS have to take that risk, knowing it may be a mistake.

The aspect of that choice that saves us all, IMO, is the knowledge that a BS can survive and thrive even if the WS effs up again.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:21 PM, June 24th (Wednesday)]

Sex is important to me. We didn’t have much of a sex life prior to dday and it was an issue for me. If we still didn’t post dday, honestly I would assume he was cheating again in some way, and it would likely mean game over (unless of course he had a really good explanation).

one has to choose to feel desired/loved.

I don't know that this is the bigger part. It's kind of hard to choose to feel desired or loved when your partner doesn't show it at all.

However, if your partner is trying to show you love and desire and you don't see it, or are rejecting it, that's your problem to fix. I think that's where love languages are important. It's important to know and accept how your partner expresses love so that you can recognize it.

My H is all about acts of service and gift giving, 2 things I never really cared about. It is nice when he puts gas in my car or gives me a card or flowers, but I don't feel loved by that. I also don't do that for my H automatically because it's not important to me.

So, there are 2 sides to that. First, if I want to feel loved by him, I need to recognize and accept the way he shows me love even if it's not the way I understand it. Second, if I want him to feel loved by me, I need to show him that through his love language (which I'm horrible at, btw). He needs to do the same, recognize my natural expressions of love and show me love in my language.

My H convinced himself that I didn't love him because I wasn't showing him the way he thought I should. He used that to justify cheating. I obviously didn't love him, so I wouldn't care if he cheated. Meanwhile, I was doing all kinds of things that I thought were loving that he wasn't seeing.

I laughed at all off the opinions who says Sex is not important, my opinion, and i honestly dont give a damn about what you said.

To Darkness Falls: reading your signature: you betrayed your spouse, remarried him/her but not in R: what does that means to me??? you are shit, excuse my language. No more to say. Say that you realised you married an dickhead so why didnt you have the gut to divorce and go have sex with someone else?

I scorn whoever say that the utmost intimacy (sex) is not important in marriage. That distinguish human being and animal. I was a playboy before I CHOSE to settle down and married my wife. I married her voluntarily, knowing that she is the ONLY ONE from now on whom I can have sex with.

Again, this is my opinion. But, again, still my opinion, you guys are sick, you married for MONEY, for SAFE HAVEN, not for LOVE.

to cocoplus5nuts: you seems to be conveniently ignore my EMPHASIS about the BS CONFIRMED that their husbands/wife showered them with love, that their husband/wife deserve the world. I NEVER say i force my wife to have sex with me. What I am trying to say is that I was fooled by her words that I am her ONLY ONE, actions prove more than words dont you think? Can you say that to your husband and then go have sex with another man?

to cocoplus5nuts again when you said sex is important to ME in R: well, if sex is not that important why did my wife HAD SEX with another man? why did she think that she HAD to have sex with guy to prove that she wanted to be with him and not me?

what are we talking about here? CHEATING. what does cheating mean to you guys here? having sex with someone else other than your husband/wife yes?

If you want to lie to yourself be my guest. I wont be lying to myself. I live with it for the sake of my kids. I dont care shit about what you say that I should care for my happiness. My happiness is my kids. If my wife still stay and takes care of my kids then I will learn a way to live with it. I CHOSE TO MARRY HER, AND SHE GAVE ME 2 BEAUTIFUL ANGELS, so if I live my life miserable but my 2 beautiful angels can grow up with their MOM and DAD around I can die happily.

jerry17 you have no right to call any of us sick and if you are so triggered by this thread maybe you shouldn't comment. No one here cares that you don't care.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 2:45 PM, July 10th (Friday)]

you are shit

Takes one to know one, I guess. 🖕🏻

In answer to the original question (and no surprise to ANYONE who reads my posts), a tremendous amount. Sex is literally "the thing" that is unique and special in my marriage (well, was). I have friends, I have confidants, I have people who I really like who aren't my wife. I don't sleep with any of them. Sex is the "dividing line" between a romantic relationship and everything else, between a marriage and roommates who share bils.

Now come back to SEX, because it is the main topic of this thread. I (not us men, thanks to sisoon) believe that SEX is ONE OF the main factors for cheating. Hikingout you said that the MAIN reason was "really wanting to be someone I wasn't", so what EXACTLY was THAT SOMEONE YOU THOUGHT YOU WANTED TO BE at that time, so you had to go with the affair?

I tend to agree with you, sex is "the thing" that's off limits. If you just wanted a friend, or just wanted some guy to give you endless compliments, you probably have plenty and you absolutely had him "hooked" before the PA, he was complimenting you endlessly, why f**k him? It's really hard for me to understand why someone would enter into a PA who's not after sex; I use the "bank robber" analogy a lot, but busting into a bank, it's pretty darn obvious you're there for the money. Sure, you could, while sitting in cuffs, explain to the cop that you only wanted to see what color the carpet was, but.. You could do that without the guns and face masks, just walk in and look around. No, it's really hard for me to understand and, frankly, I think there's a lot of half-truth about this. I can tell you, knowing guys who have had affairs, universally, they are chasing sex with someone new. Which, of course, makes sense, the only way you get that (outside of an open marriage) is by having an A, it's the one thing that's truly off limits in most marriages. My wife could have had all the male friends she wanted. Could have flirted with them all she wanted and gotten all the ego kibbles she could eat that way. But she didn't, she banged him so many times that he couldn't get hard anymore every time she met him. I mean, you can tell me that's not about sex, and some part of me even believes it, but, it's really, really hard to see (it's taken me years of this type of conversation to even peek at how it wasn't all about sex).

It also feels totally hypocritical when the WS says they struggle to unleash that very sexual side with you that they gave the AP.. As they did it SO easily with them.

That's because it is "totally hypocritical". It doesn't feel that way, it is that way.

I scorn whoever say that the utmost intimacy (sex) is not important in marriage. That distinguish human being and animal. I was a playboy before I CHOSE to settle down and married my wife. I married her voluntarily, knowing that she is the ONLY ONE from now on whom I can have sex with.

As did I, and it was a huge consideration for me. I was also a "playboy" and the thought of not having sex with other people was really difficult for me to get my head around. It was a "big deal" for me, where, for my wife, that was "what she always wanted". Kind of funny how that works out, isn't it? In a totally, not at all, not even a little bit funny way.

the thought of not having sex with other people was really difficult for me to get my head around

I'm a woman who also struggled with this at the time WH proposed M. I was never a "playboy", more like a serial monogamist, but I truly did struggle with the idea of NEVER sleeping with another man. I enjoyed sex with my WH, but he is more "vanilla" in the bedroom. But I loved him and we gelled well together so the compromises of vanilla sex and never seeing another's penis was a compromise I was willing to make. Turns out I made a lot of compromises for this M that he was really comfortable taking a dump on.

But sex was NEVER "the thing" that was unique in my M.... and was never a reason to get M.

TBH, I'll never understand those who think that sex is ever the reason for a PA - male or female.

Having an A is about power, control, risk, ego, etc. There may -or may not - be mind blowing sex. Like rape, having an A is not "about" the sex. No matter how many cheaters claim otherwise. Can anyone imagine a scenario where a group of male executive types are talking about their cake eating sexcapades bc of their emotional voids, unquenchable thirst for female adoration, or need to be naughty boys bc they've pidgeonholed their wives into a mother role? Of course not. Instead, they say they just LOVE them some extra pussy, rail on about the conquest (which is also NOT about sex, but about power and ego), and everyone chuckles and orders another scotch.

She doesn't have to do anything you want, though. You always have the option of D if she doesn't. One thing that I very strongly think no BP should do is try to coerce or force sex with the CP. That is abusive.

Precisely so. However, there’s a big difference between setting the nonnegotiable terms of R and “abuse” - if a BH is upfront and says “these are the things I need for a successful reconciliation, and if you’re not okay with that, let’s have an amicable divorce” that’s certainly not coercive or abusive in any way whatsoever. It is an ultimatum, but most of R is an ultimatum starting with “stop having sex with that other person outside of our marriage”

I enjoyed sex with my WH, but he is more "vanilla" in the bedroom. But I loved him and we gelled well together so the compromises of vanilla sex and never seeing another's penis was a compromise I was willing to make. Turns out I made a lot of compromises for this M that he was really comfortable taking a dump on.

How funny is this (not funny actually). We did the same things; I dialed back a lot of kink and more extreme acts I like in the bedroom for my W's "sake", she was "vanilla", much like your H. Made that compromise for the sake of the marriage, and for her comfort and..

Then she goes and does something that's so far outside the realm of "kink" that I had to actually look up the word for it (and yes, there is one, and it is a kink, but it's sure as sh*t not as common as the stuff that I gave up and wanted in our M). How "vanilla" turns into the kinkiest crap one can imagine, right? Like, no, we can't watch porn together, but, yes, I'm down with having 2 guys in one day sleep with me and orgasm inside me. Really?! Who the hell "ranks" their kinks like that?!

Can anyone imagine a scenario where a group of male executive types are talking about their cake eating sexcapades bc of their emotional voids, unquenchable thirst for female adoration, or need to be naughty boys bc they've pidgeonholed their wives into a mother role? Of course not. Instead, they say they just LOVE them some extra pussy, rail on about the conquest (which is also NOT about sex, but about power and ego), and everyone chuckles and orders another scotch.

No, I cannot. But it's also because I believe them when they say it's for "extra pu**y". That makes sense to me, that's why I'd cheat, I have no interest in conquests or inflating my ego, in fact, I kind of found "kicking game" and lying to women pretty damaging to my ego (If I told them the truth, which I'd tried before, I usually got rejected, I had to become someone else for them to like me). And a lot of the stuff these guys do, prostitutes being example A for me, come on, that's as "sad" as it gets, isn't it? I mean, they laugh about it and share pictures and war stories, but, still, it seems pretty sad overall for them to "have to" resort to that. I know everyone (well most) people hate the "sex" excuse, but to some people (me) it's a wildly powerful motivator. In fact, it's so powerful that one just needs to look places where it's becoming highly suppressed to see what that actually motivates men to do. Sure, herbivore men swear off women, but with it, so goes the drive to do much of anything. Without the drive to impress and bed women, well, it kind of appears that every other "drive" goes right out the window too. I'm not the least bit surprised, I know I'd be much, much less career motivated and have a lot less money in the bank if I wasn't into sex. So much of it, so much of the spending, it's all about sex; the fancy cars; the Rolex, the 5K suits. It's all, at the end of the day, about impressing women to more easily/quickly have sex. Not all, no, but a whole lot of it; the guy with a Ferrari that can't tell you the first thing about the car, for example.

Looking into the future, I think I may live long enough to see if I'm right or not. At some point, the technology will exist to make sex between 2 people "2nd best" for men (it's long existed for women). And we'll see what happens, when sex is no longer a motivator, when you have a computer and some sort of apparatus at home that's dramatically more physically pleasurable then sex, will the drive for it still exist the same way in men? It will certainly blunt it, that's for sure, but to what degree with it change things between the sexes? Could be wonderful, could be awful. Porn is certainly not "loved" in many female circles today and that's just a baby step to where we will wind up.. It's going to be very interesting/sad/wonderful/different, that's for sure.

Have you ever wondered why prostitution is illegal/condemned? Sure, today, we have lots of answers, mostly about women's rights, forced into service, and lots of other stuff that seems to frame it as "protecting women". But, it's been illegal for a very long time, back WAY before women had really any rights in most countries. So, why? Why on earth would men, the people who get to "enjoy" prostitutes make it illegal? Well, there's a lot of answers, but one of them is it makes sex "too easy". If all you need is a small amount of money and you can, legally and accepted by society, enjoy any kind of fetish/body type/age/whatever you want, it kind of takes the shine off a "normal" relationship. And a "normal" relationship is absolutely critical for the health of the nation, men needed something to "work for" and that thing, historically has been their family/children and wife. Without that drive, we kind of descend into the fall of the Roman Empire, kind of a fun time to party it up, but not a whole lot getting done between orgies and feasts. It's critical to the health of the world that men are willing to have, support and care for their children in a committed relationship (and women as well, but the drive for that is much stronger in most women than men). Limiting easy access to sex through a whole host of measures is one of the best ways to motivate that type of behavior. Once that motivator is gone, which I believe will happen at some point in the future, what will replace it with the same power and urgency?

It'll be interesting, that's for sure!

Jerry17: since I realize you know fuck-all about my situation, I figure I’ll elucidate you rather than merely insulting you.

Darkness Falls: reading your signature: you betrayed your spouse, remarried him/her but not in R: what does that means to me??? you are shit, excuse my language. No more to say. Say that you realised you married an dickhead so why didnt you have the gut to divorce and go have sex with someone else?

My original post on this thread describes the sex situation as it occurred in the past few years up until now, “now” being 11 years AFTER I cheated. Our sex life was normal prior to my having an affair.

As for why I don’t currently divorce to go have sex with someone else, that is for the same reason you apparently don’t—as quoted from your post,

I live with it for the sake of my kids.

My kids are babies and it’s not worth breaking up their home and seeing them 50% of the time to go get some new dick.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 8:24 AM, July 11th (Saturday)]

Sex is very important to me. Sex has never been a problem in our relationship, and except for health-related and/or time constraint issues, we have sex 2 - 3 nights a week.

to crazyblindsided: yes I do have the right to think like that, and forum is a place where i can say it out loud. May be because I am not a native English speaker so it confuses you, make you think I call ALL OF YOU sick. Those sick people that I mentioned are those who keep saying sex is not important in marriage and dare not to admit it when cheating, having sex outside their marriage.

to Darkness Falls: you are right that i know fuck-all about your situation. But as I said above, I dont need to know because there is NO EXCUSE for cheating, come back to your husband and not R. I do think that you CHOSE to answer my question in PRESENT tense, while my question is about your PAST action, your CHEATING. In your signature you admit you were a WS, so my question was why didnt you have the gut to DIVORCE first before go sleeping with another man. Obviously you didnt do it, otherwise you wouldnt admit that you were a WS. And that is why, in my opinion, you married your husband for MONEY, for SAFE HAVEN, not for LOVE. MY OPINION, because surely you can say YOUR OPINION about LOVE is different, that you still LOVE your husband and cheating at the same time.

But sex was NEVER "the thing" that was unique in my M.... and was never a reason to get M.

to gmc94: are you saying that you are OPEN to having sex to another man when you are still married? because it is NEVER unique in your M. Unless what you meant was SEX NEVER "THE ONLY THING" THAT IS UNIQUE. Sex is not a reason to get married but it is the boundary within a marriage. If you truly mean SEX is never unique in your marriage then it is absolutely not the boundary then.

Within R sex itself might not be a big thing.. But ANY sexual issues become huge issues especially when it is the WS attempting to go back to your old sex life.. As to the BS that obviously didnt tick all the boxes, hence the need for the affair.. And refusing to even contemplate changes in this area cam create a fear that nothing has Changed so it will happen again.

completely agree with you StrugglingCJ

thanks Rideitout, our values and thoughts in this issue are very much the same

Original poster: since I realize you know fuck-all about my situation, I figure I’ll elucidate you rather than merely insulting you.

I don't think you mean ORIGINAL POSTER. The original poster wasn't attacking you.

The original poster wasn't attacking you.

Really?

you are shit, excuse my language.

That’s not an attack?

It must be a compliment. My mistake.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 8:13 AM, July 11th (Saturday)]