SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Today I was talking to my work partner, whose wife left him for another man. So we bonded over that, sadly. I made the point that even if I did manage to keep my marriage, I would constantly live with the fear of it happening again. I doubt I would ever fully trust him. How do other people handle this?

Just passed 7 years from dday2. Seven years of reconciliation.

In your other post you talk about recognizing your H gives you crumbs in your relationship and how you have accepted it.

That realization could prevent you from being happily reconciled.

The ability to trust the cheater won’t cheat again depends upon the cheater’s remorse and commitment to making amends. It’s the ACTION that counts and is what will make you start to feel secure in your marriage.

In my case it’s also having a solid plan B in place. Because I know I can survive another affair if I have an exit strategy in place. It gives me a sense of control so to speak.

Honestly you can ask all the questions and get great advice. But it really is dependent upon your H to make you feel secure with him as your spouse.

Of course you know you have to heal yourself. Your H can only do so much in terms of your healing. I was stuck in year 3 of reconciliation waiting to heal. Completely heal. And I had to realize the rest of my healing was on me. Not him.

I hope this helps you.

To be honest, I think infidelity teaches us that we can never be sure of anything. It's like the first big earthquake I experienced and the ground shook beneath my feet. Where do you run for safety when the very ground is shaking?

So if that is the case, then it is up to us to build the environment that makes us as safe as possible. That means boundaries in your relationship with your WS that may be very different than the past and a Plan B as The1stWife states. That certainly helps us feel safer and less consequential should our WS's betray us again.

Finally your WS has to do the work too. He has to get to the place in his core where he felt it okay to abandon his integrity and seek external gratification. Has he done that? Because unless you experience changes related to that journey, you may still be in the trauma state with him.

It helps to get to the point that his cheating won't deeply change your ability to be okay.

[This message edited by ISurvivedSoFar at 4:51 AM, December 14th (Monday)]

Not fully trusting, and living in fear are two different things. In my mind, it is okay to mistrust, to be watchful, to be aware of the possibility that it could happen again. It is not okay to live in fear.

I have already lived through this and I survived. So did you. For me, self care is the path forward.

More time walking, exercising, pursuing hobbies, hanging out with friends, etc. Instead of focusing on how he may hurt me, I choose to focus on how I can heal myself and put myself in a better position to go forward, no matter what happens.

Not fully trusting, and living in fear are two different things. In my mind, it is okay to mistrust, to be watchful, to be aware of the possibility that it could happen again. It is not okay to live in fear.

I agree with this. Whole heartedly. You have to heal yourself, to the point where you know you trust yourself more than anyone else in the world, you know that you are always going to take care of you, and that you are important, and deserve nothing but the best in life. From there it gets a lot easier to accept that you don't trust. It also makes it easier to demand better and if it isn't given to walk away from it. Be it marriage, friendships, or relationships with parents.

I was fortunate in that my WH did see the wrong of his ways, and truly did the work that is required to have a successful rebuilding of our M, but sister let me tell you this, had he not, he would have been long gone. I would say that I was confident enough in myself after the first year to not tolerate anything less than, and at first he didn't know what to think of this empowered new person, and I was often met with a confused look from him, when he would start to fall back into old behaviors that allowed him to justify his actions once upon a time. It actually became kinda humorous for me to call him out.

That said, if he isn't going to the do the work you will never trust him. Focus on you and your needs and school, and your goals. Then in 6 months reevaluate where you are. I think you will find a man that is unwilling and unable to be honest with himself still, and therefore not a candidate to R with and by then you will also have the confidence to tell him to take a hike.

That's my hope for you anyway. You are so much stronger than you realize. Keep working on those personal goals.

I don’t know if it’s really the fear of him cheating again that’s my issue. I’ve survived it once, I know I can do it again. I know it won’t ever be as gut wrenching as it was the first time. I also know all the signs, and highly doubt he could hide it from me like he did before.

I think what I fear is wasting my youth. If he decides to cheat again, that’s the end of our marriage. It wouldn’t even be a second thought. My fear is him doing this when I’m 50, and me regretting not leaving him when I was in my early 30s. So it boils down to me fearing I’ve made the wrong decision, and it’s not one you can really know until they either cheat again, or they don’t. You’re definitely taking a gamble. I suppose you’d be taking one in a new relationship as well. If only Chrystal balls were real...

Thank you all for your thoughtful answers.

You all know my Plan B, and I am very determined to improve my education and financial situations so I will not have to be afraid of practical things.

And yes, I guess I have survived this far. I don't really think a second time would crush me. I used to think it would, but I am stronger now.

Not fully trusting, and living in fear are two different things. In my mind, it is okay to mistrust, to be watchful, to be aware of the possibility that it could happen again.

I guess what I am wondering, do you ever comp to a point where you think, "I am 99% sure I am safe with this person, and I am content with that"?

But it really is dependent upon your H to make you feel secure with him as your spouse.

My WH keeps saying it's up to me to decide to trust him or not, or to feel safe with him or not. Because, after all, he can't control my feelings. Like so many other things, I feel like this is just another cop-out, just a way for him to avoid doing real work. I feel like he has to show himself to be trustworthy, and it is also up to me to decide how much I want to trust him, based on what he shows me. IF I still don't feel good about giving him blind trust, that is my perogative, but I still need to see him being trustworthy. That's fair, right?

When I first joined here, I read a couple of threads about BS's who were constantly monitoring their WS, had things on their cars and VARs and things on their phones, and so on. Between the time and the expense involved in this, I realized I would never want that kind of life. I have tried to track his actions though his google account, and it seems pointless. I mean, he could leave his phone and his car at a friend's house, and be fucking somebody right in that friend's living room, for all I know. I can't watch him constantly. I have also gotten sick to my stomach trying to read his location history, even when it just shows him going to work and back. If I have to put a microchip in him like a wandering dog, forget it!

Finally your WS has to do the work too. He has to get to the place in his core where he felt it okay to abandon his integrity and seek external gratification.

Thing is, I'm not sure he has abandoned his integrity. He felt entitled to his affair at the time, truly did not consider himself as doing anything wrong. For all he says, I don't think he really considers what he did this last time as wrong, either. So that would not mean abandoning his integrity, just misjudging the consequences of his actions. He clearly didn't care in either case that what he was doing hurt me. He knew it would and he did it anyway.

The ability to trust the cheater won’t cheat again depends upon the cheater’s remorse and commitment to making amends. It’s the ACTION that counts and is what will make you start to feel secure in your marriage.

So I guess I will wait and see what actions materialize.

[This message edited by WarriorPrincess at 9:23 AM, December 14th (Monday)]

WP,

I don't know how to get past the fear, it's always there. I think it has something to do with the suddenness with which the affairs seemed to happen before.

It also matters how much the wayward partner changes their behavior and attitude. Is your WH practicing extraordinary precautions.

Funny how timely these posts often are.

The other week my W agreed to drop off Christmas flowers to people from church. She dropped them off at a mans house who just lost his wife and is in a state of depression with no explanation that they were from the church. The man now believes they were for him from my W.

My W sees no issue with this state of affairs but to me it feels like the roller coaster clicked in the chain and is climbing the first hill.

My W in the past has mentioned that I never have to worry about her getting into an affair again, which oddly does not help at all.

Thing is, I'm not sure he has abandoned his integrity. He felt entitled to his affair at the time, truly did not consider himself as doing anything wrong. For all he says, I don't think he really considers what he did this last time as wrong, either. So that would not mean abandoning his integrity, just misjudging the consequences of his actions.

WP, you know this is bullshit. Anyone who has an affair has abandoned their integrity (if they even had any to begin with).

I guess what I am wondering, do you ever come to a point where you think, "I am 99% sure I am safe with this person, and I am content with that"?

I think it's possible. IF the ws is doing the work to unfuck themselves. Which yours isn't.

My WH keeps saying it's up to me to decide to trust him or not, or to feel safe with him or not. Because, after all, he can't control my feelings.

What a passive-aggressive load of bollocks! Soooo, lemme get this straight. He cheated, he mentally and emotionally abused you for years, but now is pushing all of it back on you to deal with? Yeah, my exdouche tried this line of horseshit on me too. No, asshole, YOU broke this. Fixing what you broke is YOUR responsibility, not mine. No he can't "control your feelings", but he damn well can take the steps to help you feel more secure. That is not an unreasonable ask on your part WP.

Thing is, I'm not sure he has abandoned his integrity. He felt entitled to his affair at the time, truly did not consider himself as doing anything wrong. For all he says, I don't think he really considers what he did this last time as wrong, either. So that would not mean abandoning his integrity, just misjudging the consequences of his actions.

WP, you know this is bullshit. Anyone who has an affair has abandoned their integrity (if they even had any to begin with).[

/quote]

Well, that's the thing. My point is, he didn't see anything wrong with it. To my thinking, abandoning you integrity means you did something that was against your own core values, which he clearly didn't. He was perfectly OK with what he was doing. He never thought he was doing anything wrong. Maybe you could say he never had any integrity to begin with.

Actually, I think that makes this situation even less fixable than someone who knew they were doing wrong and for whatever reason did it any way. Their moral compass may be broken, but at least they had one.

[This message edited by WarriorPrincess at 10:03 AM, December 14th (Monday)]

WP, I'm saying this just as food for thought to a fellow BS.

I am a person with a very firm moral center and a very strong sense of right and wrong. Before this happened to me, I just *knew* that cheating was a deal-breaker for me and that I would *never* accept it.

Then it happened. And I didn't immediately be done.

And that fucked me right up.

I spent those months in false R tying myself in gordian knots trying to make this shit be okay. Trying to 'look at it from his side'. Trying to reconcile the truth that I put up with this shit. Ultimately, that strong core in me reasserted itself and I ended it. Because my bottom line truth was that it was NOT okay. It was never gonna BE okay with me that he cheated on me. I was never going to be able to reconcile myself to staying with someone who was capable of that level of cruelty. Period.

I have said more than once on SI that BS's do just as many mental gymnastics as WS's do and this is what I mean by that. BS's do olympic-level gymnastics trying to turn that pig's testicle into a silk purse. In some cases, when the WS is invested in that process, it works out. In most cases it doesn't, because (IMHO) the majority of WS's aren't capable of doing the work they need to do to fix themselves.

Well, that's the thing. My point is, he didn't see anything wrong with it. To my thinking, abandoning you integrity means you did something that was against your own core values, which he clearly didn't. He was perfectly OK with what he was doing. He never thought he was doing anything wrong. Maybe you could say he never had any integrity to begin with.

To me, this sounds so reminiscent of the gymnastics I did during those 9 months of false R. Of course he didn't see anything wrong with it. No WS's do. They all feel entitled. If they didn't, they wouldn't be cheaters.

It doesn't matter wtf HE thinks what he did was wrong. What do YOU think?

I am still trying R, so I cannot say this for certain, but I think my problems with trust are not going to be limited to WS. If we ended it and I were to try another relationship, I strongly suspect that this fear of betrayal would still be there. We had a very close, very strong marriage for many years, and my wife had been a very honest person. If that marriage could go wrong, if that wife could betray me, I do not think I could have 100 percent confidence in anyone.

This may be harder to describe than to do.

Yes, it's up to a potential 'truster' to trust. You have to evaluate your own sense of safety in order to feel safe. In a sense, there's nothing another person can do to make you decide you're safe.

But ... after being betrayed, a betrayer can do things that rebuild trust, stuff like answering questions, changing thoughts and feelings to be a good partner, being where one says they will be, being with you in new and better ways, being totally honest, raising and resolving issues....

I guess what I am wondering, do you ever comp to a point where you think, "I am 99% sure I am safe with this person, and I am content with that"?

Well, for me it's a whole lot of 9s, not just two of them, but yeah, that's where I've been for 6-6.5 years.

But ... take a look at what is posted about our fWSes by those of us deep into R and compare that to what you've posted about your H. Take a look at what people deep in R write about themselves and compare it to what you write about yourself.

You don't write like someone who wants R; maybe it's more accurate to say that you don't write like someone who thinks R is possible with your WS. You don't describe a partner who wants to rebuild your relationship enough to do all the necessary work.

Your posts say you are afraid because your H hasn't been doing the work and shows no promise of doing the work in the future. Fear makes sense to me in your sitch.

take a look at what is posted about our fWSes by those of us deep into R and compare that to what you've posted about your H. Take a look at what people deep in R write about themselves and compare it to what you write about yourself.

excellent advice IMHO.

And if your sitch is like mine....

Focus on you and your needs and school, and your goals. Then in 6 months reevaluate where you are. I think you will find a man that is unwilling and unable to be honest with himself still, and therefore not a candidate to R with and by then you will also have the confidence to tell him to take a hike....You are so much stronger than you realize. Keep working on those personal goals.

Well said ISurvivedSoFar.

I think a new Dday for me wouldn’t be as crushing as the first time. I would be a hell of a lot more decisive than I was 5 years ago. I wouldn’t allow it to consume me entirely like it did then. I don’t “fear” it happening again, although, given her history, it wouldn’t shock me.

It came to a head with my WW to get her to invest in IC for herself. This was big for her. I saw the changes. I think my WW has similar fears, that one day, I will realize that I don’t want to be married to her anymore and that her A’s are something I’m unable to deal with. She has also said she understands, but it is still her biggest fear.

The problem with trust for me is that my WH has already proved himself untrustworthy. It’s a fact. It can’t be undone. He has proved himself to be the man I never thought he would be. So with my pragmatic head on, I realise that complete trust would be stupid but then if I left my marriage I know I’d never feel that way about anyone again.

So I then began to think about my belief in him trusting himself. Now that, I can get a hold on. He genuinely believes he would not do this to me or his family again. I believe him, to the best of my ability. I believe him because his words and actions marry with a man who is remorseful and seeking redemption. So this is where my faith/trust lies. It lies in my belief that he wants to be better. That he wants to make things right.

I refuse to live in fear and his remorse does help towards that. But more importantly, I have a clear and ready to execute ‘plan b’ should he fail.

What stops me from living in fear is the knowledge that he does not govern my choices. That he is not the be all and end all. That if he were to do this tomorrow, I wouldn’t be the wreck I was three years ago. That I have fought this and I could do it again.

[This message edited by Dragonfly123 at 12:56 AM, December 15th (Tuesday)]

My WH keeps saying it's up to me to decide to trust him or not, or to feel safe with him or not. Because, after all, he can't control my feelings. Like so many other things, I feel like this is just another cop-out, just a way for him to avoid doing real work. I feel like he has to show himself to be trustworthy, and it is also up to me to decide how much I want to trust him, based on what he shows me. IF I still don't feel good about giving him blind trust, that is my perogative, but I still need to see him being trustworthy. That's fair, right?

I think after an affair "blind trust" is off the table. We can rebuild trust, but it's never going to be the innocent trust we had starting out. It's a new kind of trust, and not just with our WS, but with everyone. Intimate betrayal changes us, and that doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. Naive trust allows us to invest in people who aren't worthy of us, and even though I'll never be grateful to be relieved of my naive trust, I can still learn to appreciate the higher bar I've set for allowing people into my inner sanctum.

In response to "showing himself to be trustworthy", I have to wonder if there's really anything a WS can do to accomplish that. Bear in mind the great lengths we see active WS's achieve in convincing their unsuspecting partners that they're faithful. A person who is determined to cheat goes out of their way to prove their trustworthiness. I think at a certain point, we simply have to trust OURSELVES to make a value judgement on it. ie. I truly believe that if my fWH could go back in time and change what he did, he would change every bit of it. What I trust here is not just his words and/or actions, it's my evaluation of his words/actions.

Intimate betrayal makes us question ourselves. It makes us wonder if we can trust ourselves to make an accurate character evaluation of another person. Six years out, what I've discovered is that yes, I got fooled once, but that doesn't make me a fool. I still have the capacity to make character judgments and most of the time, I'm right.

So, it's ME that I need to trust. I trust that I've sized up my post-adultery husband and that I've got an accurate read on him. I trust that I'm correct in believing that he'd change it all if he could. AND... I trust that on the off chance I've got it wrong, I'll bust his ass and handle whatever comes my way. I'm not the emotionally puny person I once was. I'm a powerhouse of STRENGTH now. I can't be wrecked like that ever again. I can invest in my relationship, but it's never going to exhaust my resources again... because I trust ME.

You don't have to worry about what other people do when you KNOW that you've got your own back. When you KNOW that you really are enough, it changes everything.

Excellent question WP.

Speaking only for myself here...

I was once one of those “marriage for life, no matter the cost” types, well the last A changed all that for good, even if it didn’t happen all at once overnight...but I got to that place eventually.

My unconditional love became completely conditional, my commitment to the M was not endless but only matching hers, and my tolerance for further wayward behavior became zero.

Basically I became a prepper, both for the end of society and the end of my M...I don’t want that in either case, but I’m prepared if it does.

I have things set aside and plans ready to put into action in either case.

[This message edited by OrdinaryDude at 8:58 PM, December 16th (Wednesday)]

Living with the fear. Yep it’s a bummer. You get a sort of apathy for them doing it again. Like ya it will hurt but I will live through it. I’ve got a kind of “Go ahead try it, I dare you “ attitude now. towards it. She did the work as far as she could. The rest gets laid at your feet to do. You kind of have to learn to live with it. Everybody goes through it differently. But I think Reagan said “Trust but verify” There’s a lot of truth in those three words. And we put safeguards in place kind of like a postnup I guess. Those being phones and social media are open to both. She has been an open book since. It will be going on seven years for us. Doesn’t mean she couldn’t go behind my back but it just became a thing we did after the affair. I really haven’t checked in quite some time but I could if I thought something was up. Your WS becomes human and falls from the pedestal. You learn to love them differently and your view of marriage becomes different also. Learning to live with it I think is the hardest thing. It’s like your constantly pulled to want to have things be like they were before the affair. Our fear of change caused me the most grief. It’s not them doing it again it’s how my life will change. Learning to embrace change good or bad helps that feeling. We need to let go of the victim persona we get handed post D day. It hurts beyond belief to be on the receiving end of an affair. There is no justice in an affair. But life is not fair. Learning that your not going to die from them doing it again and learning you survived this shitshow once just means I know I will again.

I eliminated my fear of him cheating again.

I don’t worry or fixate on it. Because I know I will survive it.