SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Let's go back to the recorder for a minute. Does it seem logical that an innocent person would smash it and destroy the evidence, if she was truly innocent and you were misunderstanding? Or would an innocent person replay parts that you supposedly misunderstood, and explain them? Now, she will gaslight you. She will try to convince you that what you know that you heard on the recording is not what was said. Then the rewriting of your marriage will begin.

Lawman, you are worth more than this...I just wish you'd realise it. No one deserves to be called a "creep" by their spouse. Why do you tolerate this? Is your relationship a turbulent one where you routinely call each other names and think it's okay? It's one thing to gaslight, blameshift and misdirect...all WSs seem to do it but I can't get past this abusive name-calling. Your wife is basically saying - "I didn't have a physical affair but even if I had, it's all your fault..you deserve this because you are a creep." WHY do you want to stay with someone like this?

I know it's incredibly hard to see your life blowing up but you are better off alone than with her...at least the version of her you are seeing now. You brought up the fact that she's sexy twice. Do you somehow feel that being a "10" entitles her to this shit behaviour? It doesn't :(.

We are all on your side but it's difficult to see you put up with such abuse.

Many of us made mistakes, so you aren't alone. The key is to avoid making anymore going forward so you don't encounter even more pain. That is where the advice you are getting is coming from -- trying to help you learn from our and other's mistakes.

...but also very flirty and open with others.

This demonstrates that she has poor boundaries and is a potential indicator of an underlying character gap.

they were discussing explicit sexual acts they engaged in, and wanted to engage in, they sincerely told each other they loved each other, they spoke about how to lie to me if I asked too many questions

This shows she is a cheater and does have a character gap

they talked about meeting others for sex

Her cheating just went from a single affair to who knows how many.

called me a horrible creep for violating her privacy...she swears that nothing happened physically...she tells me I deserve the pain I'm feeling, that I pushed her into his arms because of how horrible I have been over the years to her, that I'm crazy, a creep, that she is taking revenge on how horrible of a person I am, and that I'm just jealous and paranoid.

This is all emotional and psychological manipulation/abuse. The lying and blameshifting are pretty "standard" stuff. Where it goes to another level where she is gaslighting you (trying to convince you that what you know to be true isn't).

Add all of this up and you have the characteristics of an advanced serial cheater.

Should I believe her that nothing physical happened? Should I drop it?

Nope. What you heard was the truth and it was only one conversation -- there is likely much more that you don't know.

Please help

Your wife is very broken. Unless she sees this fact and she wants to change, then she will continue to be a serial cheating master manipulator that will cause you more pain. You can't fix her. You can't reconcile alone.

I second the recommendation for getting a copy (or downloadable PDF copy) of "No More Mr. Nice Guy".

If she wants a divorce then there is nothing to save. I'm sorry you are going through this, we all know and have felt your pain. Again you said you think she wants a divorce, if that is true then there is nothing to save, it is over.

They were discussing meeting others for sex? Could you please elaborate? That's disturbing. Are there swingers clubs near you? Have you looked at her timeline on Google, providing she has location services enabled? I would get a gps and mount it on her car. Spy Tec 300. Look it up.

Should I let this go? Should I demand more answers? I mean almost nothing she discusses matches with what I heard - she contradicts what I heard on the recorder and she says she owes me "no explanation" of what I heard and that I need to just drop it.

my wife told me that she told him that if they got caught, "there would be no consequence because my husband loves me too much to divorce me." My first line of my letter was "I want you to know that I love you and I forgive you, but I know that you are sleeping with my boss."

Your wife has you pegged perfectly! She knew you would be to weak to kick her out and expose him to his wife, and she was right. You have several times asked us not to criticize you. That's not what we are here for. Your wife IS cheating on you. She is lying and gas lighting you. She is unrepentant and unremorseful.

Whether she is a 10 or a 2 she is cheating, she is gas lighting, and she is unremorseful. Surprise her with divorce papers, shock her by telling your bosses wife what they are up to. Show her that having a great body doesn't excuse messing around with another man. It's totally up to you.

[This message edited by longforgotten at 9:24 AM, March 17th (Friday)]

Please be strong, I wavered to much and didn't force the issue. 8 months later I have no answers other than what I know from hard evidence that my attorney forbade me from telling her about. So now my wife has become more aggressive and feels justified in all of her actions. I am miserable. Seriously, stand tall and firm. I so wish my situation allowed for that. But, I can say that allowing her to have control of the issue can lead to real headaches and unending pain. I wouldnt wish this on anyone. My strength now comes solely from protecting my son.

It sounds like you idolise her. She might feel smothered. Make her work for it a little.

Lawman, I too am an attorney. I feel your pain and I'm not going to go into shoulda' coulda' woulda' stuff. We are all different and sometimes our emotions win out over reason. I too loved my husband when I got a hint of his cheating. He's high up in a Global company and travels a lot so he had a lot of opportunity. I was, like him, very busy but thought we had a great marriage and communications. He too is very attractive - but I'm betting you are too. So don't put yourself down and want to 'keep her' just because she appears to be a prize. If there is to be R, she has to come totally clean, the OM's wife has to know ALL the details. He's probably snowed her and she thinks you are the bad guy for breaking up a great 'friendship' and him getting fired. Get tested and your W needs to be tested. That is the first thing I did.

Then ......... I got mad.

I hired a PI and got all the details, got in touch with the OW's husband. They lived in Canada, I'm in the Midwest/south ...but I got what I needed. I did not let H know I knew anything, fairly easy since he traveled so much and I was very busy. I won't go into all the details but the confrontation was on OW's home turf, her job .. and I had her H with me, along with the PI. From the time I had the 'hint' and to the day of confrontation, it was almost 3 months. It took a toll on me, for sure. I had everything in order, financials, proof, etc.

You can do this. You sound like a good man and I hope you find some peace, either with R or D. One thing for sure, Lawman, life is just too short to not live happy.

Good luck.

Your wife and this friend must have felt such a missive disrespect for you. Your wife continues to lie to your face so she obviously still feels that way. You could 180 her and only communicate if she is being straight forward and honest, or you could expose her to her friends and family to shame her. Up to you.

It might be that she would be out the door already if you were not clinging on. She's not you mother, she's your equal.

....and my wife told me that she told him that if they got caught, "there would be no consequence because my husband loves me too much to divorce me."

Go back to the top of the thread and read your own post as if it were written by a friend or loved one. Then... file for divorce. Not as a tactic, not as some gambit, but because you can do better than this. You can have a happier life than this. You deserve more than this.

If you tolerate that level of disrespect, you'll be tolerating it all your life. You'll be jumping through whatever hoops she lays out in front of you like a trained seal.

I very rarely tell someone to run, particularly not when there are children involved, but damn. What a nerve she's got.

Thanks again so much for your support. My eyes are really opening - I know they should have opened long ago, but love does crazy things to us, so I always assumed or hoped that I was wrong. And, I want to clarify something - regarding "criticism" - I just meant that I didn't think that telling me what I SHOULD HAVE done but didn't is very productive or helpful, but rather I need help and even criticism on what I AM CURRENTLY DOING AND SHOULD DO in the future - basically things I have control over. I feel bad enough for the stupid things I did/didn't do in the past in regards to this. Thanks again my friends.

Is the OM the “boss” boss – the head honcho of the whole firm – or is he your superior? Does he answer to anyone?

Friend – this is going to be life-altering for you no matter how this goes. Its doubtful you can carry on working around the OM, irrespective of how your marriage goes.

As an old timer, you have to find the strength to love yourself enough to stop this. I don't know if R is possible in your scenario. That depends on your wife. I do know that no healthy relationship happens with this kind of unbalance. Your wife holds all the control in your relationship. That is not healthy and it must stop. You have to believe that you deserve more. Believe it.

As for criticism, if you see any, it comes from a bbplace of kindness and support. Many members have BTDT so they are sharing experience more than criticizing. EVERYONE makes lots of mistakes in the early JFO days. Be kind to yourself. No one is prepared for this. Do the best you can to put yourself first right now.

I need help and even criticism on what I AM CURRENTLY DOING AND SHOULD DO in the future - basically things I have control over.

Have you downloaded "No More Mister Nice Guy!" yet?

Add me to the list of folks who made lots of mistakes after DDay. Wish I had found this place sooner. It's a wealth of tried and true actions to get oneself out of infidelity. Much better than any of the counselors we visited! I tried to be "so nice". Although we made progress, things didn't really turn around until I drew a firm line in the sand.

As many others have commented already, the thing that stands out for me in your posts is how cruely she treats you. It breaks my heart. No one, no one, should ever be called creepy by their spouse. You deserve so much better. You deserve someone who will respect you and love you and treat you well. It's so much more important than what they look like on the outside if their inside is rotting.

Chalk me up as another who understands the wish for reconciliation and supports that effort, but only if both parties treat each other well and are committed to working through this shit storm. I would really reconsider whether she is capable of that.

Wishing you much strength, courage, and healing.

[This message edited by StillStanding1 at 10:19 AM, March 17th (Friday)]

Lawman, you are going to get varied advice. Those who have divorced will think you should divorce. Those like me who have reconciled, will tell you to try to reconcile. Our advice sometimes has more to do with us than you. So you have to make decisions that are good for you. That said, you do have to start thinking more like an attorney and less like a scorned husband.

Your ego will take a beating, if it hasn't already. I will tell you the strongest men reconcile if their WW comes out of the fog and starts owning her shit. But, she has to come out of it and start owning. You cannot reconcile without that. It takes time and IC/MC. Start out with the knowledge that this is not your fault, and she can't make it your fault. BUT, you can work on you in the process.

Take care of yourself mentally and physically. Regular workouts and staying on a healthy diet helped me a ton.

I am sorry you are going through this.

Those who have divorced will think you should divorce. Those like me who have reconciled, will tell you to try to reconcile.

This is not necessarily true. Although I have reconciled, I would not recommend reconciliation to someone whose spouse is remorseless and unwilling to look at his or her boundaries or take responsibility for his or her actions. Reconciliation is excrutiatingly difficult even with a remorseful spouse. With an unremorseful spouse, one would be better to choose a different type of torture because the reconciliation is unlikely to work without rugsweeping and complacency on the part of the betrayed spouse. Ultimately, a betrayed reconciling with an unremorseful wayward is likely to lose his or her own self-respect in the process. In my experience, the disrespect I showed myself the first time was far more difficult to deal with than the disrespect my husband showed me.

So, despite having been reconciled for years, I do not recommend reconciliation if the wayward is not doing anything and everything the BS needs to believe the marriage will be a safe one to continue in. In this case, the wayward is not so looking at separation and possible divorce is the best course of action. Sometimes, the act of saying "I'm not putting up with this anymore. I'm done with you." is enough for an unremorseful wayward to recognize what he or she stands to lose and begin doing the necessary work. Sometimes it's not. Either way, it's the quickest way out of infidelity and on a path toward healing for the betrayed. Starting divorce does not necessarily mean finishing divorce. Divorce can always be stopped if the wayward changes his or her own course.

I don't want a divorce but I think she does, and she does want to inflict as much pain as possible on me.

Lawman, sorry you are here. Adultery, hurts like a M@Fer, no other wounding quite like it

Gently . . . .your WW does not love you. She left you a long time ago, she just did not tell you. Because it suited her not to, cake and having it . . . . cheaters love cake.

Her loyalty lies with the OM.

All the drivel about what you did in the past, and she never has sex, and you are a creep . . .

That is her way of justifying what she IS doing.

Seriously, if you were that bad, she could have just left you

Is her "past" perfect? No? Did you cheat?

She said she knows you will not divorce her cuz you love her so much. She has you by the balls and is squeezing them. Because she can, and she is right, the first thing you said is "I forgive you", she didn't even have to say anything. She does not value your love. She exploits it. She is using you.

And I don't see that changing. She is so far gone, so hard hearted and cruel. Can you feel that Lawman? Like she stuck a harpoon into your chest and pulled your heart out?

Lawman,

You will suffer for a good while, she will deny and demonize you.

Then you will get ANGRY. Use that anger to get out from the intense pain of infidelity.

Did you read the 180 in The Healing Library? Please do.

You need to implement that. Keep investigating undercover. She will get more clever at hiding now. Please tell the other BS, it is the right thing to do.

Protect your self. She will be looking at ways to get over on you in a D.