SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Again, what is the point of making this comparison?

The point is, something triggered me this morning. It brought me back to being attacked and dragged into the bushes by an older man with gray hair, wearing gray clothing and smelling like cheap wine and cigarettes. He then sexually assaulted me.

Even to this day I can remember every detail. I can tell you exactly where it happened, when it happened and then some of the details get murky. I can remember the police getting involved. I can also remember some other details I am not yet willing to share.

That very vivid memory stuck in my mind and my mind began to compare the feelings I had back then to the feelings I had on D-day.

I certainly apologize for offending or triggering anybody. But my feelings are real. Sorry for leaving the context our of the initial starting post.

What do they have in common? They both suck and they are both perpetrated by people missing a moral compass.

I've been beat up several times, sucker punched once that left me in the hospital in surgery. I've been, given the current definition, raped by women. None of them even closely compares to what my W's A did to me. I'd take 10 sucker punches or 10 date rapes over what my W did. It's a whole new level of pain when someone who you trust with your life does this, or, at least it was to me. My father dying is the closest I can get on the "pain-o-meter" and even that's distant.

Not sure if that's what you're looking for, but, that's about all I can offer. Both suck. Some will suck more for some than others, depends on what you value.

As someone that has repeatedly seen the aftermath of both then no, not comparable.

Rape definitely is violence, violence directed towards a person. There is a clear, defined victim. Rape isn’t about sex but all about control and power and validation of that power. The rapist selects his victim and then commits his act of violence on THAT victim. Most rape is done in situations where the victim really doesn’t expect it: relatives, close friends, dates… It’s not only or primarily the hooded guy jumping out of bushes. The trauma goes way beyond the actual physical pain of the sexual or fighting aspect of the rape itself because it usually includes a period of fear-for-life, a realization of total helplessness or a complete loss of power.

But infidelity… I actually think we betrayed spouses are victims, but we are a victim of the byproduct. The WS does not cheat to hurt us. That is not the goal or the purpose of the affair. In most cases the WS doesn’t even think we will find out. Our hurt is when we discover – most of the times long after the event. But the WS seldom/never had the affair with the goal or intention of hurting us.

Where there might be a comparison IMHO is:

Infidelity too is IMHO more about validation than sex.

The victims of both tend to feel a great sense of self-blame and shame. We as betrayed spouses fear that others hear about what’s going on, wonder how we are lacking and so on. Just like rape-victims generally go thought immense self-blame and shame.

Society tends to have the wrong attitude towards both: We tend to blame rape-victims for taking risky chances like walk alone after dark, wear provocative clothes, drink too much or whatever. We tend to think the wife left the man because he wasn’t exciting, worked too much, had a beer-belly… or the husband left the wife because she let herself go, was always nagging… whatever.

But equating infidelity and rape… No… two completely different things.

Bigger, in both cases the similarity to me comes down to my humanity being cast aside. I had a powerful PTSD response on DDay that directly correlated with rape trauma from my teen years. It felt so much the same that they just intermingled.

The guy who raped me didn't give a shit about what I felt or wanted. I wasn't even a person to him. My XWH didn't give a shit about what I felt or wanted either when he was putting my body at risk and having sex with me under false pretenses. My reaction to infidelity was to feel the same dehumanization as I felt when raped. Both times on a sexual level.

It won't have hit every rape victim the same way. It is a legitimate comparison for some of us, though.

I'll go further and say that infidelity was more traumatic for me than being raped because the person who abused my body that time was the one I trusted with it above all others. I didn't trust the man who raped me. I only casually knew him.

Sorry for what you have endured, but not sure what this thread will help you with. I agree that what rape and infidelity have in common is they violate a person and make them a victim. I've been raped and I make zero comparisons to what the rapist did and what my husband did. It messed me up for years with guilt and shame. The rapist did not intend violence toward me, he was just a pathetic, opportunistic horny young man with no morals or boundaries. There are all kinds of rape, they are all a violation. Infidelity is a violation but it does not equal rape for this survivor. Both made me a victim but both with very different intent.

My WH did not intend to cause me pain, he innocently believed he had vetted and protected me from STD's and that his affair would never impact my life or our marriage. His affair was about sex too, not about intentionally causing me harm. I am just collateral damage in his bad choices because I found out the truth.

The infidelity did bring up the sense of betrayal, helplessness, violation and shame I thought I had conquered as a child. That would be a much better thread to see, seeking support and coping mechanisms for the way infidelity drags old trauma back to the surface. I have discussed with WH the feelings his betrayal resurfaced from the rape. It was painful for us both but therapeutic.

Good luck healing.

I have been raped. I absolutely agree with everything DevastatedDee has said.

This is something that has had a lifetime affect on me. As mentioned earlier, I did not intend to discuss this, but after reading your responses about my thoughtlessness in creating this thread, I understand that the lack of context can very easily cause my thoughts and intentions to come under question.

I don’t like talking about this, but here goes.

During the summer of 1967 I spent most Saturday’s fishing in one of the lagoons located next to the Phoenix Zoo. Life seemed simpler back then. We didn’t lock our doors at night. I felt safe. I had no idea that evil people existed. My parents allowed my 5-year-old brother and I to walk the three miles to these fishing holes and spend the day catching bluegills.

On this particular day, my brother and I chose the middle lagoon. I had him sitting on a stump fishing while I walked along the edges. After a while I noticed the previously described man approach my brother. I repeat, back then neither of us knew what evil was or what horrors one person could perpetrate against another.

A few minutes later this man approached me. He made some small talk and then asked me if I wanted to earn a dollar. Back in 1967 my weekly allowance was 25 cents, so a dollar was a big deal to me. I asked this man what I had to do to earn the dollar. He said all I needed to do with him is to play games that little boys and girls play. To me that meant tether-ball, hopscotch, foursquare and things I did at school during recess. So, I asked him if that was what he meant. He said yes.

He then said, let’s go play. So, we started walking up a road. As I passed my little brother I noticed he had an odd expression on his face (I found out later the man had stuck his hands down my brother’s pants and fondled him).

This is really hard to talk about.

We continued walking up this road that was between the zoo and the lagoons. He then asked me if there was a men’s room nearby. There was but something began to click and formulate in my mind. I was naïve but somehow knew I was in trouble. So I lied to him and said, no.

At this point I was becoming terrified. He grabbed me, smiled in a sickening way that I can still visualize.. He put his hand over my mouth, dragged me off the road and said, "these bushes will do."

He then beat on me and raped me. I can remember the horrible pain. I struggled but he kept holding me down.

I am going to leave out some details because my hands are shaking badly as I type this out.

The attack went on for a while and I was bleeding. I can remember the pain and the bleeding. When he was finished he grabbed me and threw me farther back into the bushes. He told me he was going to kill me. I believed him. Somehow I was able to grab my pants and tried to run. He grabbed me and started to put his hands around my neck to strangle me. Something inside me came to life. I reached for the fishing knife that had been attached to my pants and with all my might I stabbed the bastard in his thigh. He screamed and let me go. I got away and ran as fast as I could to protect my brother.

This is really hard to talk about. I still feel this trauma all these decades later.

The man was never caught. I lived in fear that he would come back and kill me. I had nightmares for years and trouble sleeping.

I blamed myself. I blamed myself for bringing my little brother along and not realizing he was in danger. I blamed myself for not recognizing evil when it stood right in front of me. I blamed myself for being so easily fooled.

As all this entered my mind this morning, I fully relived the trauma and it left me shaking. I then started thinking about the trauma of D-day and how so many of the feelings aligned with some of the things I felt after the assault.

Was I to blame? Did I cause this? How could someone do this to another person? Is the woman I loved any different than the stranger who decided my life and body had no value other than that which could be taken from them? I thought about the POSOM and felt the same rage I had for this POS-Rapist.

I know these things are hard to talk about. The sexual assault still brings tears to my eyes today. So does infidelity.

I sincerely apologize to anyone that was triggered or outraged at me for creating this post. I did it to help me process through my trauma; but I should’ve been thinking more about the rest of you.

[This message edited by 36yearsgone at 4:53 PM, November 10th (Tuesday)]

I can definitely see the parallels and also agree with DevastatedDee especially this part...

I'll go further and say that infidelity was more traumatic for me than being raped because the person who abused my body that time was the one I trusted with it above all others. I didn't trust the man who raped me. I only casually knew him.

Both are violations of a person's personal boundaries.

I have been sexually abused as a child, gang raped at 16, and been cheated on and given 2 STDs from my STBX. It's a fucking mess is what it is. All of it came with long lasting trauma that will NEVER go away. I get to live with myself and what has happened to me for the rest of my life.

Being molested and raped gave me problems with sex and trusting men. My STBX used my aversion to being sexually touched in certain ways against me over and over again. He called me a prude and felt rejected by me. He blamed his A's on me. I no longer want or desire sex at this point in my life... that is what all of this has done to me. I have been in therapy for YEARS and nothing has helped me. I get to live with it.

(((36yearsgone))) I'm so sorry for your experience. What rotten human to do that to a child. My heart hurts for you and all of us who have experienced rape as a child

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 12:17 PM, November 10th (Tuesday)]

Oh, 36

I’m so sorry.

I’m so sorry that happened to you. I can see how the trauma of infidelity can bring up the trauma of your sexual assault. I’m sorry you felt like you had to share all of that to make your point. It’s definitely something a lot of us go through, in one way or another, for the infidelity to trigger other awful life events or abuse that we’ve endured. A part of this journey that honestly should be talked about more, because a lot of us suffer those feelings in silence, and so many waywards don’t understand just how much damage they are doing/have done.

I had some stuff happen as a young girl with my best friends father. My WHs A didn’t trigger that for me. It DID trigger all of the shit I went through with my mom choosing her boyfriend over me constantly when I was a child.

I’m sorry again for what you’ve experienced, back then, and with your WW.

Interestingly, we had a similar discussion a few weeks ago about adultery as abuse -- physical, mental and emotional abuse (and verbal abuse, if you include gaslighting and the lies) -- and the comparison was made at that time that adultery is akin to a form of rape.

Why? Because, it was said, it violates the body autonomy and free will of a betrayed spouse and forces them into a threesome, foursome or moresome against their will and without their knowledge. It exposes them to life threatening disease and comingles their own genital microbiome with that of an AP (the research on the altering of genital microbiomes permanently depending on sex partners is a particularly compelling point as to why adultery is akin to at least a form of rape - it seems adultery permanently alters your body chemistry).

I would not make a direct analogy to rape, but only would say it is akin to a kind of rape. It does have some similar qualities of violence against a person's body, will and spirit -- and the traumatic effects seem to me at least like they will be lifelong in some respects.

What's weird is that this prior conversation didn't result in immediate accusations against posters making the comparison, and was a detailed and civil conversation that really started putting details on the concept of adult as abuse with some qualities similar to a form of rape.

Was it because that previous discussion was framed mostly as a discussion on adultery as a form of abuse as opposed to rape?

[This message edited by Thumos at 12:29 PM, November 10th (Tuesday)]

What's weird is that this prior conversation didn't result in immediate accusations against posters making the comparison, and was a detailed and civil conversation that really started putting details on the concept of adult as abuse with some qualities similar to a form of rape.

Thumos:

I think the tone of the discussion was my fault. I should've provided context. Then maybe the topic would not have immediately gone off the rails.

But, the one good thing to come out of this conversation, is that it brings to mind how easily it is to misjudge someone else's intent for the things they say or do. How quick we are to judge someone when we should wait for the context that is driving them. None of us can fully know another person's life experiences, thoughts, pains, sorrows or traumas. I will try (hopefully) to be a little slower in passing judgment in the future

Well, just based on some of the responses on this thread, it is clear to me that even in this forum where where it is discussed so openly and compassionately, that the trauma of infidelity on a given individual can still be grossly underestimated.

There is no one size fits all with infidelity. Of course many BSs have many details in common with their stories, but the actual effect seems so personal.

One thing that occurs to me is that, if nothing else, infidelity is a life changing trauma that piles on top of other issues in life and just makes it that much more difficult to cope and thrive.

[This message edited by LostOpportunities20 at 12:50 PM, November 10th (Tuesday)]

Well, just based on some of the responses on this thread, it is clear to me that even in this forum where where it is discussed so openly and compassionately, that the trauma of infidelity on a given individual can still be grossly underestimated.

I have learned a lot since coming to SI. One of the things I've noticed is how easily some people can be set off by seemingly innocent comments.

I think we all, especially me, need to realize that people have traumas that affect them in many different ways. Along with these traumas can come PTSD and the hidden triggers that exacerbate it.

Yesterday was my late son's birthday. I am sure that thinking about his life and death contributed to my memories related to my 1967 trauma.

There are things that happen to us, both good and bad, that can instantly come to mind with as little input as an aroma hitting our sense of smell. The good times I had as a child during Thanksgiving can come rushing back when I smell certain foods associated with Thanksgiving. Sometimes I'll hear a song that instantly takes me back in time to a better time in my life. But the way we relay those things to other people in a conversation might need more context so people don't think we've lost our !#%%*%) minds.

[This message edited by 36yearsgone at 1:06 PM, November 10th (Tuesday)]

I sincerely apologize to anyone that was triggered or outraged at me for creating this post. I did it to help me process through my trauma; but I should’ve been thinking more about the rest of you.

Big virtual hugs to you, 36. No apology necessary. I'm so sorry that was done to you. There's nothing that makes that pain go away and it's brave to talk about it. Like you, I remember every second of it.

36yrs, I had a really hard time reading that - actually I could not finish your story post. I’m so sorry that happened to you.

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I'd take 10 sucker punches or 10 date rapes over what my W did. It's a whole new level of pain when someone who you trust with your life does this.

I’d say this is more insensitive and triggering than 36yrs post after having been raped by my late WH last year in March...when I had - at one point considered him my home, and trusted him with my life.

These posts can go many ways. It would probably be best if people didn't say they'd take being raped over the infidelity. OR vice versa - because you don't know who is reading what you wrote. Honestly, how can you say you'd take one over the other if the other has never happened to you? That's where insensitive bullshit comes in to play.

Is this thread about what they have in common? or which is worse?

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On another note of insensitivity, the post that's in the general forum that asks:

“When your spouse dies”

Well, some of us have had to live the reality of a spouse actually dying...

No one bitched about that post's insensitivity. I'm just sayin’. If you are going to ride one - ride them all.

I get it - at some point everything we once knew is now dead. And divorce is like a death (of many). I was M'd once prior to my late WH. I know. I've grieved a lot.

If someone needs to talk about their trauma - let them. You don't have to get on their thread...just like I didn't get on the "dead spouse" thread.

Reality is - WE ALL HAVE DIFFERENT TRIGGERS.

[This message edited by CatsNTats at 2:25 PM, November 10th (Tuesday)]

These posts can go many ways. It would probably be best if people didn't say they'd take being raped over the infidelity. OR vice versa - because you don't know who is reading what you wrote. Honestly, how can you say you'd take one over the other if the other has never happened to you? That's where insensitive bullshit comes in to play.

I've been date raped, per the current definition, several times. I've been cheated on once. I stand by my statement, I'd take the first 10X over the second a single time.

I can't and won't speak for others, but my W's A was far more damaging to me than any of the date rapes I've experienced.

[This message edited by Rideitout at 2:31 PM, November 10th (Tuesday)]

RIO: Okay, well I didn't catch that. That sentence read weird to me.

However, the conversation started about what they have IN common - not which one is worse or what you would take over the other.

I'm simply pointing out that to says one is worse over the other is more insensitive than trying to have a conversation about the commonalities of how they have made him feel the same in certain aspects. No offense Rideitout - I'm not upset. Sorry to use you as an example...that's why I said these types of convos/posts can go many ways. But people seem upset about his discussion over ways he stated the two things both made him feel. That the A triggered the memories of the feelings he had from the R. Not sure how that is insensitive unless it initially said something else and was edited - in comparison to someone saying one is worse than the other.

At the end of the day - trauma is trauma.

[This message edited by CatsNTats at 2:59 PM, November 10th (Tuesday)]

Yeah, me too, at age 11. I would agree that both infidelity and sexual assault leave terrible scars. For me, and this is just me, I think I recovered better from the sexual assaults. But, they, definitely, messed me up.

Not sure how that is insensitive unless it initially said something else and was edited - in comparison to someone saying one is worse than the other.

My original post is the same as it was when I created it. The only difference is that I added the words in italics after reading some of the responses.