SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This is a call for all to document the damages you have experienced regarding trickle truth.

This damage is documented well in every corner of this site, within every separte forum. It is saturated everywhere. It is not difficult to find story after story of trickle truth being the thing that breaks a relationship. I would like to have a thread, specifically on the wayward side, that has examples of this all in one place.

In doing so I am hoping to prevent others from making the same mistakes I did. Because we all know for every WS that claims to have disclosed everything, there are tons more that haven't and think they don't need to for whatever reason because it doesn't apply to their situation.

Trickle truth isn't as black and white as hiding the fact that it was a PA instead of an EA, or downplaying the number of times something happens. It permeates much deeper than that,and the smallest thing being withheld can mean the most to a BS who is trying to piece together their post-A reality.

I don't have the time right now to start the train, so I am hoping others from both sides will share their stories in the meantime. Thank you in advance for your vulnerability and courage to share the things that bring up the most shame and pain in an effort to help others!

Here's how crazy it is...I am divorcing my XWH, it no longer matters to me what or who he's screwing as long as it's never me again. I got additional TT from friends about him trying to hook up with another friend's young adult daughter (she was horrified and told her dad, poor girl) and this information STILL fucked me up and made me cry.

I don't love him, I don't want him, I don't care who he's fucking now, and yet finding out about one more time he was trying to cheat on me after he claimed I had the truth still hurt like hell. After I knew he was a liar and that I didn't have the truth, it still hurt like hell.

I think it's because that killed yet another part of my reality. You work soooo hard to try and put your brain back together and get a timeline of "okay, I now know what was going on then" and another curveball hits and you have to reassemble your reality once again. It is exhausting. I have since decided to just assume that he cheated the entire time so that I can be spared that experience again.

When it happens and it's with someone you love and you're trying to trust, add in all the other stuff you already know it does.

I don’t know that this would be the right choice for everyone (feel free to leave feedback in relation to this comment), but in hindsight I wish I would have waited to tell my BH the full, in detail timeline. Even if it was a day or 2 after d-day. I gave him simple versions. Watered down. Straight up hid the extent of my affair. To me, I felt like I was protecting him from the affair. All I was doing was minimizing. What I didn’t realize was that it caused him more pain to hear a new detail every few days. I needed to rip off the bandage in one pull. Whether I betrayed him 1x or 1000 times, the pain was the same for him. All I did was drag out his suffering, pulling a little bit of the bandage at a time.

The fog at the start is the thickest and hardest to see through. Even if you don’t want to leave your BH, you aren’t ready to disclose until you are ready to change. (Even if you aren’t planning on staying together, you need to change as a WS. Otherwise old habits will haunt you forever.) Make sure you are committed to accepting that you aren’t a safe person. Make sure you are ready to rehash on repeat. Make sure you get your story correct, in full, on the first try. Don’t make your BS suffer on repeat.

[This message edited by Iamtrash at 4:46 PM, September 11th (Wednesday)]

For every reason under the sun we hold on to self preservation in the wake of dday. We are the masters of minimizing, not only the "half" truths we tell our BSs but the information we keep to ourselves thinking it of little importance to their healing. All of this for one goal, protecting ourselves.

Very little in life is completely black and white. But I think truth certainly falls into that category. I get the need to have the term trickle truth, but call it was it is, WS still lying. I can't think of anything that falls under TT grey area. Omissions (withholding) are still lies, still self preservation. No matter how much we try to tell ourselves that it's for their benefit, or that it doesn't matter, behind it we are still covering our asses. Why wouldn't you just give up some information that to you is relatively unimportant, if there wasn't something else truly behind it that protects you somehow?

I was so extremely fortunate that I found SI on dday, yep, that night. I didn't waste time and while I may not have known exactly why I needed to do certain things like tell the truth, the sole reason that a site dedicated to this told me I needed to had a pretty big influence on me. My goal day one was to go about this the right way, me not knowing what that entailed and gaining the knowledge here, my TT ended two days later. It took two days to gather the courage to confess to more and finally get it all out there. Now, over the next few days that truth came with more questions from my BH and as scary as it was to answer truthfully AND be forthcoming with info, it was the only path I knew for sure that has worked for many couples trying to get out of infidelity. So, I followed. My BH was one that didn't need every single detail and when he got what he wanted/needed the questions stopped about the A and turned more personal.

I mean I get it, it's hard and frighting to get the truth out there. We think the worst when we think the worst of our truths coming out. We will go to the ends of earth to keep it to ourselves out of fear. Never considering what the truth might mean to our BSs, never considering that they can handle it or in cases that we think it's not important that it doesn't matter anyway. But it does, it matters. Our BSs CANNOT heal until they know what they are trying heal from. And TT most definitely sets back their healing upon discovery. It effin matters.

So, while I cannot help you document the damages I personally faced with TT, hopefully I was able to add something here.

IAT & FL... Thank you. You both nailed it.

I would add one more thing that was def true for me. The TTing just felt like continual disrespect. On top of the massive disrespect he already did, it was just more evidence that he had zero respect for me; as a wife, as a woman, as his partner, as a human. And for me? Yeah the TT is what killed us.

Am I not worthy of the truth?

Our egos and self-worth take enough of a hit on d-day itself, but to then consider us unworthy of the truth is simply insulting.

Trickle truth doesn't just hurt as one already betrayed, it reinforces the simple idea that a WS cannot be trusted. As a WS, you do more damage to yourself with TT than you do to your BS.

Lastly, and this is just my own humble opinion here, it demonstrates a fundamental lack of courage, something desperately needed in order to reconcile with a BS.

Lack of truth/detailed timeline is a giant reason I had to ask my WH to move out. All the previous posts are spot-on (and I'd have a REALLY long post if I cut/pasted all the quotes that hit me). The first TT that comes to mind is that it took maybe a year to get the "story" of their first kiss. That a spouse would not be able to remember the FIRST time they kissed another woman is beyond me (I even posted here- and every WS that responded said they could forget lots of stuff, but NOT that).

Why wouldn't you just give up some information that to you is relatively unimportant, if there wasn't something else truly behind it that protects you somehow?

Our BSs CANNOT heal until they know what they are trying heal from. And TT most definitely sets back their healing upon discovery. It effin matters.

This kind of sums it up. It IS lying. It IS f*cking with your BS' reality. It IS disrespectful and de-valuing to a BS (and TBH, I'm kind of angry at myself for allowing it to go on for so long, as every day my WH withheld any piece of information is like another day of being violated). Not to mention that it halts rebuilding trust and resets the clock when it's discovered. IMO, its a reflection of an entitled, selfish, chicken, wayward, mindset.

Why on earth a WS would WANT to reconcile based on lies is really beyond me.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 10:41 PM, September 11th, 2019 (Wednesday)]

I never respond in this forum, too triggering as a BS. But I will say this as a message to all Waywards, TT is continued abuse. To keep information from your BS, information that they need to heal, to grow and to make decisions is just as, if not more cruel than your infidelity. It destroys whatever is left post A to try to rebuild from.

Bottom line, you were bold enough to cheat so now own it and be bold enough to face your spouse with something you denied them to begin with. The truth.

Whatever the consequences are as a result are simply fallout from choices you made. Understand the pain a BS is in as we try to comprehend the incomprehensible.

You did it, just admit it and let the chips fall where they may. Betrayal isn't a game and if you are truly committed to saving your marriage you need to walk through the fire first. Your BS didn't ask for any of this. Remember that.

IMO, its a reflection of an entitled, selfish, chicken, wayward, mindset.

This is the best explanation of it, GMC. The entitlement and chicken-shittery intersect in one very specific wayward assumption that underpins so much of this: The assumption that a relationship that is starved of the truth is somehow worth preserving. We truly DON’T GET IT for a long time, and expect that there’s something worth preserving between two parties on a shamefully unequal footing.

I believe that one of the clearest “getting it” moments for a WS is when that discovery occurs- That the “love” exhibited prior to DDay is selfish and negates one of the two partners. Once we realize that our fear of losing what we love actually motivates unloving actions, I think it goes a long way to suitably reframing how to move forward- With total honesty in a ceaseless commitment to give the full picture.

I believe TT is about control - trying to hold on it it after Dday. The truth will set you free, right? Once the BS has the truth, they are able to make choices about their own life, which could lead to consequences for the WS, like divorce or exposure, or loss of a job.

As long as the WS keeps the BS in the dark, their world outside of the marriage remains relatively unchanged.

When giving advise to new WS here I always try to put this part in bold letters. DO NOT LIE! I don’t think I ever could express this enough to anyone! WS don’t understand what kind of damage this really does. It’s bad enough we cheated but to lie about it really does kill the M afterwards. It’s staring over for ground zero when trying to rebuild a M. It’s hard enough.

You think your protecting yourself and your BS by making it sound not as bad. Maybe lying about it will help save my M. Maybe they won’t kick me or D me if it don’t sound nearly as bad if I lie. This only hurts the BS even more and everything is destroy. It’s not wroth it. You want to save your M TELL THE TRUTH. Yes the truth will hurt the BS but they will heal from the truth.

You want some truth back? Don’t Lie

You want your BS to heal? Don’t lie

You want to become a person or not that person anymore? don’t lie

Want to heal the M? DON’T LIE.

For 2.5 years I TT'ed. My BS got answers to specific questions whenever she asked. I offered up relevant information along the way as I realized its importantance. (Notice how I was the judge and jury about relevance? Ugh.) On Sept 8th I disclosed 3 things about my A that I had been actively hiding since being offered the gift of R in Oct2017. I both minimized these things and thought they would be "too much" for my BS to withstand. In doing so, I realized I had framed so much of my A in a "better light" in an attempt to control the narrative and make myself seem not as bad as "those people", and I did so under the guise of protecting my BS from the details she didn't want.

I am copying a bit from my other thread to highlight the damage this has done to her:

Last week [after disclosing] I felt lighter and brighter and full of a confidence I don't remember having felt before. While I still feel confident, the shine of being free from the burden of lies has quickly been taken over by the dark and raw reality of what I have done to my wife with this final disclosure.

I feel like telling her all of this was the biggest mistake, but I know it isn't. The mistake was not doing it in the first damn place. The mistake was waiting 2.5 damn years to grow a backbone and look in the mirror. The mistake was not heeding the advice of this community that I read being given to wayward after wayward, no matter what their betrayal consisted of. The mistake was thinking I wasn't taking away her choice because I wasn't "actively" lying or cheating. So many mistakes. She has paid and is still paying the price for each one.

Not only have I done extreme damage to my wife, I have committed great damage to myself. The hiding and minimizing ate away at my soul like a slowly spreading cancer. I have had more physical and mental ailments over the past 3 years than I have my entire life. I would get increasingly defensive about pretty much anything. I would fly into a panic or a rage any time I was put in the position of having to face myself.

I spent so long training my brain to believe the narrative I was spinning I lost all sense of what was real and who I was. I have barely looked myself in the eyes at the mirror for 3 years, and every time I do I am startled by how old and ragged I look at only 35. My first gray hair sprouted during my A, and now I'm rocking a lowfi Bonnie Raitt undergrowth.

Trickle Truth is toxic in every sense of the word, and it is toxic for both parties. It is undeniably traumatizing for the BS, and it takes its toll on the perpetrator as well.

I started this thread in the hopes of getting through to any new WS out there who hasn't disclosed everything, and to do so, preferably during early days. I thought I could mitigate the damage I created. I decided I would be a martyr holding onto the truth for the "greater good". And I believed I was above all the people here, that none of this applied to me, and I could save my BS the full extent of the pain of being betrayed. Not only was I wrong, but I have caused exponentially MORE pain and trauma.

Because I lied at the start, it got harder and harder to tell the truth. I was the definition of a coward, and I have destroyed any healing either one of us has managed to accomplish over the past 2+ years. I thought, even just this week, that because we had done so much work for so long, that this final disclosure would be easier to get through, and we could skip to being finally healed now that it was out.

You truly do start over again at day 1 with every new disclosure. Waiting makes NOTHING easier for ANYBODY.

FearfulAvoidance: Thanks for this thread and sharing yourself.

I spent so long training my brain to believe the narrative I was spinning I lost all sense of what was real and who I was.

I'm a BW, but this sounds like something many/most/all (?) WS do. Not only to have the A to begin with, but to avoid the truth in the aftermath. Thanks for putting it so succinctly.

FearfulAvoidance, I shared this with a BS on the JFO thread. It pertains to a BH and his WW so please change pronouns where applicable.

How can I believe I have the whole story?

You will never have the whole story! Your WW may provide the what, when, where and how with you but you will never know the depth of her feelings while everything was happening, what she smelled, the feeling of his touch, the sounds, how she felt while going to see him, how she felt on her way home ect.

She will never be able to share with you everything experienced in the moment.

Your actions in wanting to inform new WSs not to TT is noble but you may recall you were advised not to TT in some of the responses you received when first posting on this site.

I am afraid that the damage caused by TT is something many remorseful WS wishing to R learn on their own regardless the sage advice.

Your actions in wanting to inform new WSs not to TT is noble but you may recall you were advised not to TT in some of the responses you received when first posting on this site.

Even if ONE new WS reads this and decides to speak the whole truth to their BS, if just ONE BS can be spared the further damage done by TT, then IMHO this post was a rousing success.

And I will say for me as a BS, I got a ton of advice in JFO at the beginning about the 180 and what I *should* be doing. And how much of it did I listen to? Exactly none. And how much of it do I wish I had? Just about all.

I dish out the 180 advice all the time and explain it from the perspective of one who did not do it and why it caused me more hurt. I full well know a new BS will probably not do it. I share my experience and if ONE BS implements it and is spared the false R limbo hell that I did, then I am happy to tell my truth.

I am afraid that the damage caused by TT is something many remorseful WS wishing to R learn on their own regardless the sage advice.

F13Y, yup. But hope springs eternal anyways!

Any instance of trickle truth is horribly damaging. I have two instances. The first was when my WW was trying to convince me for two weeks after D-Day that it was just an EA. Then a ridiculous cat and mouse game for more than a year over seeing the texts on her phone before she traded the phone in and the texts were lost forever.

So when I first began commenting on this site back in August, I got a few responses asking “almost three years and you don’t feel clear in reconciling?” Well that’s why - among a lot of hurtful and weird shit she said for a long time. But the trickle truth and withholding of information almost obviates and destroys anything else a WW tries to do to “fix it”

I just can’t understand why time after time this resurfaces and waywards just don’t get it until years later and the damage has been done. My WW is now finally for the FIRST TIME putting together a detailed timeline. After nearly three years. I’m not sure it’s enough — and she has no empirical evidence to back up her story. She put herself in a catch 22 by deep sixing the very evidence that could have backed her up.

That’s why more recently I’ve been more vocal that in my view the majority of adulterous situations in marriages cannot be reconciled long term. And that perhaps we are doing no one any favors by trying to push for reconciliation over a less painful divorce.

It’s a pessimistic view but I think a realistic one. I just don’t think most waywards have it in themselves to be the fully empathetic healer instead of the destroyer.

[This message edited by Thumos at 2:57 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)]

TT to me is more damaging than the affair. As a BS of an LTA I kept finding new things because I searched for them. Searching made me feel horrible and hurt me more than I was already hurt. Something as simple as did you memorize her phone number. After many years of a affair he told me it was on a piece of paper in his desk at work. I knew this wasn't true and it made me feel stupid and lied to. I finally found all his old cell phones and she was listed in each one, just not under her name. How wonderful it would have felt for him to just say she was listed in every cell phone I ever had. Of course it would have hurt but not near as much as playing detective and finding it for myself. I know there is still more to his affair that he hasn't told me and I would be so grateful for 100% of it all. I feel like an outsider looking in. I was his wife and he shared secrets with another woman for years. Today, I would have so much respect, admiration and feel safer if I knew everything. Yes, it would hurt. I would probably cry but I would feel like I wasn't looking in from the outside but was so important he wanted me to know everything so we could again be that couple that shared our lives with each other. I think coming clean about everything from dday is the best way to go. Second to that is sharing everything no matter how much later. That is how you build trust and learn to lean into each other again after so much pain. Knowing everything would go such a long way in letting me let go of a lot of pain, fear and realizing that I was number one because he trusted me with the entire truth. I have given a chance at R after years of cheating, which to me shows I am worthy of the knowing everything. I have stayed for 2 years. What stops me from recommitting is that I don't feel I have the entire truth. I was hurt often in my life so for me, I need every bit of what it was.

I can't speak to the damage it did to my wife. I can say it keeping a TT kept me from really doing anything truly solid in changing. I couldn't own it till I stopped manipulating. I couldn't change and become a good human being till I stopped lying and controlling someone else's free will. You are always a cheater till you tell the truth. By lying and manipulating you control another person's free will and a right to make an informed choice. There never will be anything good or noble about that. You have shot yourself and you aren't even out of the gate. There is no honor or integrity to gain. There will never be growth. A wayward has the right to change and become better. So, lying is not only what you choose to do to someone else. You basically say Fuck it to yourself too and remain unhealthy and miserable.

[This message edited by Zugzwang at 9:27 AM, September 19th (Thursday)]

A wayward has the right to change and become better. So, lying is not only what you choose to do to someone else. You basically say Fuck it to yourself too and remain unhealthy and miserable.

Thank you Zugz for stating that so bluntly. That is exactly what I was hoping would come across to new WS who think they are somehow being noble and protecting their BS, like I did. To those, like me, who come here and are explicitly told the first step is to come completely clean and that nothing can be gained until that is done and the BS is given back their choice with a full understanding of reality, and choose to think it doesn't apply to them. If I would have understood at the start what that would do to me I might have listened.

WS are inherently self focused, otherwise we would not be WS. We believe ourselves to be above others and entitled to whatever we want to self soothe in unhealthy ways. Often, not always, but often we end our As and scramble to save the marriage because we realize what we have to lose. The whole start of this process for us has everything to do with us because we cannot yet see past our own damn selves.

As Ellie said, if even ONE WS can read anything here and decide to not TT this thread will have served its purpose.

I couldn't own it till I stopped manipulating. I couldn't change and become a good human being till I stopped lying and controlling someone else's free will. You are always a cheater till you tell the truth. By lying and manipulating you control another person's free will and a right to make an informed choice. There never will be anything good or noble about that. You have shot yourself and you aren't even out of the gate. There is no honor or integrity to gain. There will never be growth. A wayward has the right to change and become better. So, lying is not only what you choose to do to someone else. You basically say Fuck it to yourself too and remain unhealthy and miserable.

Why do we do this? Why do we continue to lie? How did those unicorn betrayers tell the whole truth in the beginning? How did they push past their fear of losing everything, of losing that fake control over the outcome, of not wanting to add more mind movies? Why am I sabotaging myself over and over again? Someone said earlier if we had the balls to cheat we should have the balls to come clean, why didn't I/we? I have continued to shoot myself. I am all out of bullets, but the wreckage I have caused continues to grow. We, betrayers/abusers/waywards, are a fucked up group of people.

[This message edited by LifeDestroyer at 10:35 AM, September 19th (Thursday)]