SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

ThatBPGuy.

I would assume (given my age) most younger guys are NOT interested in me beyond a physical relationship. I could be wrong but I’m certainly not interested in them.

Good conversation - great. Nothing more.

I have hobbies and interests and in the decade I am at in age I can still rock the skinny jeans. I look young for my age (thankfully) AND I’m happy where I am in life. My H tells me I am pretty but I think I look ok.

I seriously doubt a 40ish guy is interested in me. Good conversation aside - sports or hobbies or career etc. - I’m nothing special IMO. And I believe it’s just sex for them. When you meet people you get a sense of who/what they are - you get a vibe.

We all know the truth about why younger women go with older men, and it ain't looks.

No, it's not. Because that's generally not the thing that women most strongly select for in a partner. They want other things (and of course, looks would be nice too), and those other things are more common in older men than younger men. And the men who have those things young? They are, not surprisingly, the most desired of all men. If you're 25 years old, rich, powerful, good looking.. Guess what? You're gonna get even more chances with 25 year old women than a 45 year old guy who's rich, powerful and good looking. It's just that there are a lot more rich/powerful 45 year old men than 25.

What do older men have that younger ones don't?

Money and power. And if he was really so stupid that he thought she was with him for his looks, well, I'm glad you set him straight. It would be like a crazy hot 25 year old woman dating a 45 year old man and telling her friends "He loves me because of wit (with an IQ of 80)" or "He loves me because my job is so cool" (working at Starbucks). No, hunny, he loves you because you're beautiful, accept it, decide if it's what you want, and move on. Just like the 50 year old guy with a Ferrari in the driveway and a 22 year old GF, she loves you because of your things, not because you're the next "David" statue.

None of this is even a little bit, or shouldn't be, shocking. If your a woman having trouble dating, the advice you'll get (and I'd say is often correct) is to work at your physical attractiveness, lose weight, better clothes, makeup, etc. If you're a guy in that same situation, the suggestions will be about improving your status (get a better job), increasing your ability to generate desire (game/talking to women/etc), and projecting power/dominance. And, in general, a man getting a job paying 3X as much as his old one is going to open a lot more doors for dating than losing 30 lbs, and, of course, the reverse if true for a woman. Don't like it? Well, neither do it, but, I'm pretty sure we all kind of know this is how the "market" works.

The exchange of money and beauty? But why the blind spot from so many men?

I'm not sure it's a "blind spot", I think most men who are really wealthy know about "gold diggers" and know that women are interested in them for money. I think it's more a "don't care" than "don't know". If your a man making this deal, you're still sleeping with some hot young thing, who, at least in most cases, is doing a good imitation of enjoying it. You've got enough money for the things you want, so, at some point, the incremental improvement in your life that can be purchased outright with money comes to an end. And then, in some ways, why not use that money to woo women "out of your league"? It seems pretty darn universal that men do this, from trophy wives on one end of the spectrum to prostitutes on the other end. Men clearly have a willingness and desire to exchange money for sex with attractive women, so much so that to curtail that drive, the direct exchange of money for sex is actually illegal in many places.

Loukas

As soon as DashboardMadonna wrote this:

Keep it coming, its beyond amusing.

You should have stopped. She's admitting to the world that she is finding enjoyment in your pain. Most agree anger stems from pain. This is an infidelity site after all, so its not surprising people are hurting. She struck a nerve and liked it, especially once you started to respond back in pain.

DashboardMadonna I'm going to admit something you will also enjoy. Your words struck a nerve with me too. I'm trying to understand exactly why. Is it because I am the chauvinist pig you describe? or because I believe you painted a picture with a very broad stroke? I read your words and I also see a lot of pain. It almost feels like hatred. Hatred towards men. Hatred for what men have done to you. I am sorry. Some men are just bad. It sounds like you have had the unfortunate luck of being near them to often.

secure men don't need to impress a girl or impress anyone with a girl. They go for the real things like genuine connection, compatibility, and shared values

This is a very true statement but how many secure people do you know? Also is it wrong for a man or woman to want both? Have a "trophy wife/husband", and have the things you listed?

At a very young age I was taught girls/women are more mature then boys/men. Is this factual? I have no idea, but it sure seems to play out that way. When I was in high school, the girls there wanted to date a college guy. So it seems early on women also accepted the maturity difference too. Is it surprising that way of thinking continues through adulthood?

It feels like we are honestly questioning (as in the original post) why an older guy who is clearly not in his physical prime seeks a woman 15 or 20 years his junior who cannot possibly be into anything other than his daddy role as provider and "man with the answers." Why would this make people defensive?

I can only speak for me and how infidelity has changed my way of thinking or magnified it. My wife cheating on me proved that I was just a provider or daddy role. I was just there to pay the bills, fix the faucet and mow the yard. Is that reality? I hope not, but it sure felt that way. So I suppose I felt defensive because I now believe it to be true.

Also about older men dating. They probably already had the family, wife, kids, etc. Now they are divorced, or cheating. What are they looking for at that point in there lives? Another family? more kids? more responsibilities? That's unlikely. A fun fling with a 20 something sure sounds like a lot more fun. The problem is it usually doesn't stop there. Eventually a relationship is wanted, and that may blind some people/men into not seeing the gold digger for what they are.

Its also a numbers game. Men die younger. There are more women than men, so naturally men can be more picky. Its unfortunate but true.

So young women are easier to impress? Easier to feel successful around?

Yes, though I think this may also be the difference between serial infidelity and a mid-life crisis, to some degree.

For my WH, this was definitely a mid-life crisis. He's actually been very successful, but has trouble seeing himself that way, or at least believing that he's earned that success. And in our home life, I've always been the one to organize things, handle our finances, make "responsible" decisions, etc. By mutual agreement; I never imposed those roles on him. But it didn't contribute to him feeling like he had his act together.

So it felt good to him to be the one who really had his act together, compared to her and her social group (she was a complete mess). And not that there wouldn't be plenty of women his own age who would have made him feel smart, and successful, and "together" in comparison. But when someone like that is in their 20s it feels "bohemian," which is appealing, while the same lack of direction in someone older is less attractive.

The fact is EVERYTHING said on this thread relates to individuals - so anything we could possibly say here does not apply to everyone. It's simply not possible. Are there couples with large age differences who are simply attracted to each other and happy?

Yes, there are.

A former co-worker (woman) is about 20 years younger than her husband - they have been married for almost 25 years now (he was a widower when they met - he was in his later 40s and she was in her later 20s) - and they seriously are so freaking happy together it's crazy (and no, he's nowhere close to rich and I think she out earned him for the majority of time since they met). When I asked her about him and how they met etc, she said "I don't know how to explain it, but his age made no difference to me - we just hit it off - had similar interests, etc." Of note, something that made them MORE compatible was the fact that he already had kids and did not want anymore - and she didn't want to have any herself - and that was a big deal for both of them. They also enjoyed a similar and very off-the-beaten-track hobby and still, to this day, do everything together. He is getting older now (they are now 75 and 55) and it is clear he has been the love of her life, and she has been his. They are really trying to make the most of his remaining time traveling etc as they know it is pretty clear she will outlive him barring some crazy circumstances.

Do I think there were any "daddy issues" or "gold digging" or whatever? No. Do I think that her H initially was attracted to her, in part, because she was younger? Probably - but that ship has long since sailed. I don't think her age has anything to do with their relationship now. They were, despite the age difference, a great match. Sometimes it happens.

The question is why do men pursue and actually feel they would be desirable to younger women, actually want to partner with them?

Because, presumably, they have more resources to offer than a younger man just starting out in adult life.

We seriously studied this is my evolutionary biology class in college. The idea of the golddigger stems from an evolutionary desire to survive and have surviving children. Before money, it was other signs of having more resources. More resources, be it money or land or bigger muscles, equals better chance of survival. As society has evolved, so has this a bit. Women don't need for survival so much anymore, so we can look for other desirable traits.

Studies have also shown that women are attracted to different types of men depending on where they are in their menstrual cycles and whether or not they are in hormonal birth control. During the fertile phase, women are attracted to bigger, stronger more "masculine" men. During the luteal phase between ovulation and menses when they might be pregnant, women are attracted to softer, more gentle men in appearance as well as behavior. They want nurturers at that point. Hormonal birth control throws all of that off, which can cause trouble in a relationship if the woman goes off the bc to get pregnant.

Men are attracted to younger, more physically attractive women because they indicate fertility and health. A more attractive, i.e. healthier, looking woman is more likely to have healthier children. Of course, attractiveness and the appearance of health changes periodically. And, then, with cosmetic surgery the game has changed.

I think some women do try to pretend to be younger, look younger and more attractive. That's why women dye their gray hair and wear makeup, unless you're just having fun like Lady Gaga.

That all being said, we are not ruled by our instincts or our hormones. We have free will. We have the ability to think beyond that initial, instinctive physical attraction, at least some of us do. Maybe some of us don't have that ability and are on a lower evolutionary rung.

Using my elderly dad as a reference again, he finds much younger women attractive, of course. He does not hit on them, although he does like to flirt some. My stepmother was 7 years younger than him, I think. They got married when he was in his early 40s. His last girlfriend was in her 60s or 70s.

I am 2 months older than my H. The MOW is 15 or 16 years younger.

Also is it wrong for a man or woman to want both? Have a "trophy wife/husband", and have the things you listed?

"Wrong" is probably a strong word. Shallow and/or immature are probably better descriptors. I mean, by the time you're applying the word "trophy", you're overtly objectifying a human being. You've left the organic realm of natural attraction and appreciation for aesthetics at that point and made it a social statement about your own insecurity.

A fun fling with a 20 something sure sounds like a lot more fun.

Maybe to people who haven't actually talked to a 20 year-old lately.

Your kids are still young if memory serves. So, you're in for a real treat. IME, 20 year-olds are self-proclaimed experts at EVERYTHING, even though they've got no practical experience at anything. Their logic has holes you can drive a mack truck through, but according to them, they're reinventing the fucking wheel daily. ALL their taste is in their mouth, but apparently we're all doddering codgers if we don't agree. And they're number one priority in life appears to be arguing for the sheer joy of conflict, and yet, the conflict is always the other guy's fault. "Fun" is not a word I'd apply to them on the whole.

I mean, we've all been there in our own youth, I suppose. And we survived it and matured into more graceful people, but damn. As a parent, I couldn't wait for my kids to hit brain maturity. It was like dealing with overgrown toddlers when you can't send them to time-out anymore.

My H’s AP was TEN YEARS OLDER!

I mean, by the time you're applying the word "trophy", you're overtly objectifying a human being

You're correct, I meant the physical attractiveness that usually is implied with that term.

20 year-olds are self-proclaimed experts at EVERYTHING, even though they've got no practical experience at anything.

You could have just described me now. I'm 36 and just realizing I don't have all the answers. Self awareness is hard but I'm trying! Lol

I can tell you that any young good looking guy who hits on me is only looking for one thing. Sex.

He’s not interested in me or my interests or anything like that. He just thinks I might be willing to have sex with him.

I fail to see the problem.

ThatBPGuy.

I would assume (given my age) most younger guys are NOT interested in me beyond a physical relationship. I could be wrong but I’m certainly not interested in them.

Good conversation - great. Nothing more.

I only base my thoughts on the fact you are, here, articulate, thoughtful and sometimes offer sage advice.

See, we have never met and I like your mind.

At a very young age I was taught girls/women are more mature then boys/men

Not quite. Girls mature earlier than boys, generally. That is a biological fact.

I used to refer to my H as a trophy H, not because he's younger, but because he's quite good looking and physically fit (or was until his late 40s). I think it is absolutely ok to want both emotional/intellectual connection and physical attractiveness. I, for one, need that initial physical attractiveness to even consider anything more. Is that shallow? I don't think so, but maybe. Do I care what other people think about that? Not one bit.

Yeah in my case, my exdouche left his life for an 18 yo because.... I really have no idea. She's a loser with MAJOR daddy issues, objectively is not particularly attractive (she's built like a 12 yo boy), and is addicted to drugs. She told him that he was the 'love of her life' in Nov 2018. And then between 11/2018 and 07/2019 on FB had three other boyfriends that were "loves of her life" because she is a fucking normal hormone-ridden 18 yo girl. DUH.

As for her? I don't know what she saw in xh. Rescue? Safety? Love? A very small part of me feels sorry for her because I know for darn sure he is completely incapable of any of that.

I think is def true in my case, my xh liked (luuuuurrrrved ) her because she is young and stupid and doesn't know her own shit and thusly will never call him out on his. And I think it speaks volumes about HIM that he felt like he identified more with a fucked up 18 year old child than he did with a wife that was 8 weeks younger than him.

Whatever the case may be - today, right now.... I am so damn grateful that his bullshit is not my problem anymore. SO. DAMN. GRATEFUL.

Just something I’ve noticed - Even here in other SI threads I notice a lot of men tell hurting BHs to encourage them - wel now you can go get someone better and younger. It is always associated that way. Sucks for women to be seen this way. It is countercultural but I am not dying my hair and trying to break my makeup habit. I want to look good but I also want to step out of the circus. I don’t judge women who embrace it, I have myself, but it is exhausting and I am working on my inner resources and want to let go of external validation and the eternal youth competition I am not resourced enough to compete in. The thing that is tricky about it is then you are told you are “letting yourself go” so...women can’t win. We’re criticized for “pretending” to be young and were criticized for having normal human skin cells that age.

A 57 year old woman wearing clothes that a 16 year old wears, just because she may fit into them, is pretending to be younger.

Wow! That's a big leap. Maybe said 57yo woman just likes the clothes. I'll be 50 in March. I am not a cougar. I exercise and do my best to eat healthy foods, but changing hormones are getting the better of me right now. I went clothes shopping recently. I looked in every women's section. I ended up buying things from the junior section. I didn't like any of the clothes in the Women section.

I am not trying to pretend to be younger. I don't wear makeup to make my skin look smoother. I don't have a "beauty" regime. I don't dye my grey hairs. I had a hair stylist once ask if I wanted him to cut them off. I was in my late 30s early 40s then and only had a few. I said, "Hell no! I earned those suckers!" As a matter of fact, I wish I had one of those thick streaks of grey hair. I can't wait until my entire head turns grey. I think it's beautiful when I see it on other women. I don't wear push up bras. I don't usually wear a bra at all. I'm still told that I'm very attractive. 🤷‍♀️

Dashboardmaddona, I think you were the one who referred to push up bras. I am not one to judge. I think people can wear whatever they want for whatever reason. I don't care if you wear a push up bra that makes you look 3 cup sizes bigger and your breasts are right under chin. I am curious, though, if the purpose isn't to appear younger or more sexually attractive, what is the purpose? Those things are so extremely uncomfortable, and it's usually pretty obvious when someone is wearing one.

What is the point in all the makeup and hair dye and high heeled shoes (that's one I'm still trying to break) and push up bras and cosmetic surgery if it's not to look more attractive? (And, I'm not talking about "outrageous stuff like purple hair and artistic makeup.)

I think when we're gussying ourselves up, it's typically not so much a matter of sexual attractiveness as it is simple aesthetics. They do say that women dress for other women, so as not to be criticized or whatever. I'd expect that men try to avoid social stigma as well. But on the whole, I think whether we're male or female, we look in the mirror and try to present ourselves in the most aesthetically pleasing manner we can. And after that, it comes down to a matter of taste. There are people who are tattooing their faces and sticking spikes through their skin, and to them... it's a pleasing aesthetic. Same thing for me if I put a bit of lipstick on. It's not because I'm out hunting dick. It's because I think it brings a bit more color to my features and I think it looks nice.

What were you hoping to get in responses, Jesusismyanchor? Certainly you know the conventional answers already. Were you venting?

*****

Why are women responding to Jesusismyanchor's question? What make women think they know what's inside men's heads?

*****

I personally find it creepy when men like women the age of their own kids.

Tell me about it. I find it creepy that my hormones flow at the sight of females from the age of too young to state to, say, 80 or even older.

*****

I suspect it makes the old farts feel youthful and boosts their lagging vitality.

That doesn't apply to me. Admittedly, part of me thinks I'm 22, but I know I'm 75.

'Like' ... I imagine you mean something more like 'chase.' I've worked with younger women, some of whom turned me on, but I've always chuckled at that. I was not going to cheat, but parts of me didn't like that decision.

Young women generally look better than older women. Young men generally look better than older men. Those are facts of life.

The older I've gotten, the more attractive older women have gotten, too. At 22, I never expected to be turned on by a 75 year-old woman, but it happens.

My D plan was eventually to date and hopefully connect deeply with someone new. I expected to look for someone in my age range. I don't want to have to describe 1968 to a partner, no matter how sexy she looked....

As for aging, I am turned on by youth, but one can't have a long term relationship with a youngster. There are great rewards in long term relationships, rewards that I am glad I'm receiving. And so far, I much prefer aging to the alternative.

I know that I was far more attractive when I was 20 than I am now. That's just a fact. Like many other BWs here, my XWH chose women in their 20s to cheat with. I would never have been so stupid as to put myself in competition with women half my age based on looks. I would have found the idea silly. Younger people are generally more physically attractive. I completely understand why older men find young women attractive and why older women find young men attractive. The opposite is what's hard to comprehend. I know that the women my XWH cheated with did so because he paid them. He got attractive sex partners and they got money for their next supply of heroin. I had a ONS with a 26-year-old man after I left my XWH and I understand what happened there too. I got young muscles and he got a night with a woman who had more sexual experience than the younger women. Win/win.

The problem comes in when the older party doesn't understand the most likely dynamic. This guy wasn't going to date me romantically (thank goodness, too young for that) and those women weren't going to date my XWH unless he paid them to fake interest. I can find a 40-50-year-old man handsome today, but I woudldn't have been remotely interested in my 20s. That's normal. The younger person generally has something to offer in looks to get something they want from the older person. It becomes a sad thing when the older person doesn't see it. Well, unless it's infidelity, and that's just sad all around no matter what the ages.

Even here in other SI threads I notice a lot of men tell hurting BHs to encourage them - wel now you can go get someone better and younger. It is always associated that way. Sucks for women to be seen this way.

I've seen this several times when a hurting BH creates a post and vents his pain. In fact I wanted to mention it last night, but I was exhausted and fell asleep. Could you imagine if a female member posted on a BW's thread, "Well hey, his loss. Now you can go find someone taller and with a bigger dick!"

Pointing out things that either gender has no control over, like age, height, etc. just irks me. I usually jump to the conclusion (probably unfairly) that the commenter is an asshole. If you are a short BH with a small penis, and you read that comment, it's going to sting.

As far as Sisoon's post, the portion below the questions, I can't find issue with any of it. Well said, Sisoon.

[This message edited by WhoTheBleep at 11:17 AM, February 3rd (Monday)]

A 57 year old woman wearing clothes that a 16 year old wears, just because she may fit into them, is pretending to be younger.

um no. I'm close to 57 and I'll be wearing yoga pants because they're comfortable. And also not caring what anyone else thinks.