SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Brother ~ reconciliation takes TWO. You can’t do it alone and she won’t help. Get an attorney and make a plan.

Apparition I think I can understand what you are doing. This waiting period is a time for you to gather an coalate as much information about her affairs and her mindset as you can, so that you can fortify and arm yourself in the future should she come back and try to blame her shitty behavior on you. It also gives you time to get your legal ducks in a row, settle accounts, rearrange finances and get things ready to go once you decide it's time to load the truck and head down the highway. It also gives you the piece of mind knowing that you did absolutely everything you could to get her to open up and help heal the marriage.

I get it now. Most of the ripping you are getting from the other posters, I truly believe, comes from their concern for your health and sanity. But you seem to be made of sterner stuff. See I took the exact opposite approach that you did: I left my WW as quickly as I could. I never asked her for clarification or the reasoning for her adulterous ways, because I didn't need to. I know in the depths of my soul that my WW is a broken, dysfunctional human being just as your WW is. No amount of examination or rumination is going to bring logic to what she and your wife did. I didn't need to take that journey, but you do.

You are peeling the bandage off slowly while I ripped mine off quickly. I can't fault your intentions.

[This message edited by Westway at 2:00 PM, November 24th (Tuesday)]

Most of the ripping you are getting from the other posters, I truly believe, comes from their concern for your health and sanity.

Concern for me is apparent and appreciated, I've never taken the advice and insight as anyone coming at me, but more like people reaching out of a boat to grab a drowning man who just won't take their hand. I hope it's also apparent that the support I've gotten has helped me immensely. I'm stronger for reading the advice and insights that have been offered to me.

I am also watching, my goal for watching is to build a new opinion of my wife based on how she is behaving now when I'm in need and based on what she's done. I'm not discounting our past, but I like getting information that isn't connected to my idealized vision of my wife.

Okay, your calmness is now getting a bit creepy.

It looks like you are now on a info collection phase, but please be careful, and ask yourself why you are doing this, for what purpose? Is it to find the mythical unicorn called Closure? If you are, you will be wasting your time. Closure exists only in an individual's mind, and not from someone else.

Another thing, the 180 with one foot in R? Hmmm, I think it is not advisable. If your approach is to do the 180 to help you get out of Infidelity then it will work better. By predetermining (even by a little bit) the outcome, you will hamper the full benefits of the 180.

Keep you mind open when doing the 180. whether you R or D, that is not the end goal to aim for. The end goal is to get out of the shitty town called Infidelity.

How are you holding up Apparition?

How are you holding up Apparition?

I'm not really doing very well right now. Had a new D-Day which left me despondent and overwhelmed by sadness. It was suppose to be WWs opportunity to tell a coherent and authentic story without questioning or anger, in a safe place. I sat quiet, never interrupted, letting her know that no decisions would be immediately made. Just a chance for us both know: trust me with the information so I could trust you kind of thing. There were no new revelations. I suppose I'm saddened because of the rather pathetic attempt she made at full disclosure. WW claims I "want" more and she's forced to "make up things" to satisfy me. Truth is WW put in very little effort, haphazard, incomplete, and dwelled on things she didn't do, leaving out entire persons(who), what, when, where, and how. Entire types of betrayal were left out. How can someone be sorry for something they don't mention? I withheld knowledge of some activity and of course WW tailored answers to what I'd disclosed. I know that technique is an old and tired trick that unrepentant cheaters use. Her attitude was poor, immediately with the "I know its never going to be enough", "you're never going to get over it", "I'm always the bad person and nothing I do will ever satisfy you.", etc.

I suppose I'm grieving, it feels like grief.

Thank you so much for asking.

WW claims I "want" more and she's forced to "make up things" to satisfy me.

It probably won't surprise you to learn that my WW has said and still says the same thing word for word.

Word.

For.

Word.

As we've said they're operating from the same playbook over and over and there's really nothing original in a WS head or coming out of their mouths. It's really remarkable, but it's really real too. Happens far too often to be otherwise.

"I know its never going to be enough", "you're never going to get over it", "I'm always the bad person and nothing I do will ever satisfy you.", etc.

Ditto with this. The pity party. So familiar.

Grieve.

And then move on with the rest of your life. It's going to be great.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:13 PM, December 3rd (Thursday)]

Apparition. I’m sorry your discussion with her was another blow to your marriage.

Sometimes it’s nit the affair that kills the marriage but the cheater’s behavior after Dday that makes reconciliation impossible.

I can tell you that my H has never said to me I’m never going g to get over it or any of the things your wife said to you. Clearly she believes she’s the victim here. And with her attitude about her destruction of your marriage it dies to appear that she’s willing to put in the hard work to make amends.

Hell she couldn’t even tell the truth.

Sorry you don’t have much to work with at this point.

"I'm always the bad person and nothing I do will ever satisfy you."

Well, yes, opening up an AM account (and Adult Friend Finder! ) and screwing multiple men behind your back and lying to you about it and gaslighting you about it is BAD.

It's the sort of thing BAD people do.

And no, it won't satisfy you. Far from it. It will be a very dissatisfying relationship with some one who does those things.

She destroyed her other marriage, and now she's destroyed this one. Get out with your skin intact.

So we're on day five from the 1st legit disclosure. I get pretty confused about my suspicions, her disclosures, her lies, more disclosures, red herrings, gas lighting, on and on, and f'cking on.

^^This was a month ago. And here we are a month later, and she's still doing that, right? Sounds like it. And a month from now? And the month after that?

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:37 AM, December 4th (Friday)]

I have re-read your thread.

This is insane! The following points are abundantly clear to me:

Your wife suffers from sex addiction.

Your wife is not remorseful.

Your wife does not care about R. She has survived a divorce before and continued to have her chosen lifestyle - pretty sure that she feels that she can do it again. So she doesn't really care about divorcing.

Your wife does not care for you in the slightest.

Your wife is not honest with you and does not intend to be.

So she needs help (counselling) for some things but you will damage yourself if you continue. I really do not understand why you just don't pull the plug - there is really NO reason to try and fix this.

(((Apparition))))

Grieve, feel the feels, then start making a plan.

Set some short term goals for YOU, and YOU alone, and then start figuring out you excise this cancer from your life.

You will survive this. You will be stronger, wiser, and braver than you ever imagined you could be.

(((And Strength))))

ps - Make sure you are getting some food in you, and if you can't do that, get some protein shakes.

February will be here in the blink of an eye. Pay a retainer to a good attorney and sign up for weekly therapy to understand how to move away from this sad phase. We root for you!!

If we have a good moral center we hate to feel guilty. We hurt someone and it doesn’t feel good. If that’s the case she is throwing out the guilt garbage by stuffing it in bags higgledy piggledy and getting rid of it as fast as she can

On the other hand if she has no decent moral center you are not worth the truth and she’s riding down the road throwing trash out the window and doesn’t care if she’s ruining the environment. Either way she want the negative feelings gone.

Just remember that guilt has a shelf life. Its different from shame.

You will have to figure out. With which you are dealing.

Her attitude was poor, immediately with the "I know its never going to be enough", "you're never going to get over it", "I'm always the bad person and nothing I do will ever satisfy you."

This is something a lot of WSs do. I call it "catastrophizing". They minimize to say they don't have to do anything/much. Then they do almost nothing. Then they say it's the best they can do. Then they say, "Nothing will be enough".

Maybe get all the way in. Full effort. Then maybe say this. And it might be true. That's fine. If nothing is enough, no one will blame you for ending things.

This ends when you end it, not before.

She has power over you. Take that power back. She hurts you because you love her. Turn that off. Take back your power. Be free, safe, and live a true life without liars and cheats.

It is your road to walk. You just have to get walking.

This ends when you end it, not before.

I hear you, I understand. I do feel more empowered every day.

I'm doing individual counseling. I'm taking care of myself physically, working out every day, eating, sleeping, etc. I'm back to 100% at work. I'm talking to friends every day and I'm getting together with friends regularly. I'm with my family often.

My WW is doing individual counseling. We're to start marriage counseling and I'll give that a bit of time to see if my WW will get it with the help of a counselor. Though I'm nostalgic about the marriage and the wife I once knew, I'm not deluded. I'm pessimistic that more time will pay dividends. I'm not looking to her for truth or empathy right now, both seem out of her reach. I am looking to see if she does the work, but again, I'm not optimistic.

Thanks for the support after this last D-Day, it was a sh*tshow. At this point, I'm a little comically amazed, like seeing a person fall off a curb because they're walking while on their phone. It's terrible that they hurt themselves, but also there is some dark humor. To just witness her low effort and seemingly unnecessary lies has left me with a certain cynical humor. It's not ha ha funny, more like, manic Joker laugh kinda funny. Not sure I'm making sense, I'll end it here. Thank you for your continued support for the "worst patient ever".

Just respect ✊ to you.

One day at a time.

this last D-Day, it was a sh*tshow. At this point, I'm a little comically amazed, like seeing a person fall off a curb because they're walking while on their phone. It's terrible that they hurt themselves, but also there is some dark humor. To just witness her low effort and seemingly unnecessary lies has left me with a certain cynical humor. It's not ha ha funny, more like, manic Joker laugh kinda funny. Not sure I'm making sense, I'll end it here.

My reading of the situation may be wrong, so please correct me if it is.

So far, you

- know that your WW is nowhere near R material

- know that she is not putting any significant effort into R

- are watching to see if she will make another mistake

- are 'collecting' more data

- are observing her make a fool of herself

So, if my reading is correct, I would ask, 'why?' are you doing all that? Are you still hoping that she will snap out of it, give you complete truth, and you can R with her?

Even though she has shown herself to be totally unsafe for you, you are making excuses to stay with her, keeping yourself in limbo and pain.

Another possibility is, you are caught up in some morbid fascination of seeing your WW squirm, and revelling in the discomfort she is facing. Giving you some form of satisfaction to make her jump through loops (IC, MC ,etc). I would stop it right there though. If she WANTS to be with you, she would be lighting the hoops, line them up in a complicated course, and jump through them in record breaking time to be with you... which she is not doing.

At the moment, it looks like she is not invested in the M, as she is not 'convinced' that she should stay in it. For all you know, all she is doing is to give you platitudes, tell you what you want to hear, but deep inside, she wants her 'single life'.

If that is the case, you are fighting against an ideal/fantasy. That is pretty much a lost cause, as you will never be able to match up to the ideal/fantasy.

At this point, I'm a little comically amazed, like seeing a person fall off a curb because they're walking while on their phone. It's terrible that they hurt themselves, but also there is some dark humor. To just witness her low effort and seemingly unnecessary lies has left me with a certain cynical humor. It's not ha ha funny, more like, manic Joker laugh kinda funny. Not sure I'm making sense, I'll end it here.

That's good stuff. You've gained some detachment and an ability to just watch. And you're right, when you can manage to remove your emotions for a minute, it is indeed a laughable shitshow.

You're doing fine, shipmate!

So, if my reading is correct, I would ask, 'why?' are you doing all that? Are you still hoping that she will snap out of it, give you complete truth, and you can R with her?

Another possibility is, you are caught up in some morbid fascination of seeing your WW squirm, and revelling in the discomfort she is facing.

If that is the case, you are fighting against an ideal/fantasy.

You've given me a bit to unpack here. Yes, I'd say I am still hoping that with therapy she'll get it. She says little things, opens up on occasion with some introspection, truth, and self awareness. But talking about anything related to the affair and she goes into defense and lie mode. Hell, talking about my feelings (which are based in her actions) puts her in the same mode. There is no way around it, she is not really in shape to do R. She says she is choosing R, but what she has chosen is: "If my husband will never mention my actions, forgive me and trust everything I say, then I can stay in the marriage". She clearly wants to rugsweep and move on. But then I get little signs that she could find the way. Is she just trying to feed me crumbs to keep it all together while she really decides what to do? It's a possibility that I don't rule out.

I an not reveling in her discomfort. Her failure to get it actually breaks my heart. I do have moments of "gallows humor" over it. Not over the affair actions, but the post affair actions is its own tragedy.

Yes, I'm still fighting against the idealized version of my wife. No doubt. 100%. There are hundreds of thousands of interactions over the years, brave, selfless, and beautiful sacrifices she's made for others. There is friendship, time spent laughing, loving, and paling around like teenagers. But it's now like one of those cheap 80's double image posters, where depending on the angle it's a different picture. Looking from different angles I can see either picture.

The idealized version of my wife and my life have me wanting to exhaust every effort and take any pain to know I didn't give up too soon. I have a goal line of when enough is enough. It used to be fuzzy - "gather information" and "watch what she actually does and not what she says". I've done that and now I'm letting counseling play out and if she still doesn't get it then I know its time.