SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I just got done reading the book cheating in a nutshell. Im feeling pretty bummed. The book pretty much points out you are fighting a losing battle with reconciliation. Basically said there are no happy marriages after infidelity and we will just suffer. Im just shy of 4yrs into reconciliation. It’s hard. I still think about it every day. I do want it to work out. We get along great, we always have. We had a few issues before the affair but those were easily worked out. We have known each other our whole life. Together since 1989. Is there any hope of happiness again?

I don't recommend the book myself for anything other than understanding the brain and other processes you are going through. I found it comforting bc it explains in a lot of detail the very painful experience of what you are going through day today. Reconciliation is possible but I think you need to be a hard ass about it and it is a long, hard slog.

It’s a book. It’s not the law.

People can change. Addicts get clean and alcoholics get sober.

So people can survive infidelity and be happy. That means that the cheater is remorseful and committed to changing and repairing the damage.

It does happen. It is possible.

Thank you for your responses. I believe she is a good R candidate. She does treat me very well.

That book also triggered me after I read it (which was around 2-ish years after Dday). I did talk it over with WS which helped a bit, was bothered by it for another week or so, and then moved forward. I am now about 2.5 years out and we're doing really, really well - I honestly feel really good about where we are (I'm superstitions so knock wood!).

I've read A LOT of infidelity books or books related to something similar - meditation, attachment, etc. I had read the posts about Cheating in a Nutshell in the Book Club message board so had an idea what I was getting myself into. I read it because I knew it had an anti-R agenda. I feel like every other book I read was like 90% about reconciling and then had one chapter about what to do if you decided not to reconcile. I wanted to read Cheating in a Nutshell to balance that perspective out.

I don't regret reading it, but I was definitely triggery for a while.

Full disclosure: I’ve never read the book but I have R’d. So yeah, it’s possible. I’m about 4.5 years out so not much farther along than you. Are we happy? On the whole, yes. All the time? Of course not. Marriage is marriage, there are highs and lows and it is work. I am happy with my choice to R though. He is my favourite person in the whole world to spend time with and I understand him better now than I ever did before, warts and all.

If I may ask: you say you think of it every day still. What parts do you think of? When you think of it, is it painful or more or less just a thing (albeit a major thing) that happened in your relationship. A sharp pain or a dull ache?

I/we read some/most of this book.

IIRC it isn't a 'scholarly' work, per se.

It's a compilation of infidelity stories from people who wrote to an advice column, from a couple of writers who ran the column? Something to that effect???

It's a sample.

Furthermore, it's a self selecting sample.

It's a collection of accounts from people who, for whatever reason, chose to vent their pain and seek insight and input from a newspaper? advice column.

This is not to say that the accounts of infidelity in the book are not genuine and valid, nor to say that the author's analysis and conclusions are invalid. They are all valid enough, for that self selected population sample. And, that's, all.

Our personal perspectives?

My husband (WS) found it frightening and discouraging.

I (BS) found it largely validating for how the trauma impacted me and how the negative emotions feel. I did find it overly negative- like, no room for redemption at all. As a betrayed, I feel that's unnecessarily negative, harsh and likely inaccurate for many if not most relationships. Even relationships visited by infidelity have redeeming, positive qualities. Even waywards have redeeming, positive qualities.

Dissolution of the relationship, actual dissolution or functional dissolution, in which the two people stay together in the hollowed out carcass of a dead and empty marriage, isn't an automatic given. People leave relationships of all types: employment, family, social situations, etc. That typically happens when the negatives outweigh the positives. Infidelity can be a huge fucking negative, a deal breaker even- infidelity itself can certainly be that, but most of us here have some experience with parsing out the actual infidelity vs. the context of the infidelity vs. the 'weather' in the marriage/relationship as a whole.

Infidelity is a big fucking turd in the punchbowl, no doubt.

Some people, waywards and mad hatters, keep adding turds to the punchbowl.

Some people dump out the turd, the punch, toss the bowl and move on.

Some people fish out the turd, drink the punch and pretend that it doesn't taste like turd.

Some people dump out the turd and the punch, sanitize the bowl and make some more punch. Some keep the same recipe but make a sacred pact to avoid adding turds.

I'm gonna bet that most tweak the original recipe somewhat, and not necessarily directly related to, or directly because of, or addressing the infidelity.

It isn't an exercise in 'infidelity proofing' the marriage. Personally, I find that concept ludicrous and the tenet exhausting.

My husband cheated when I was a young, beautiful woman giving it 110% every fucking day. I am not saying that I was perfect, but I was doing my very best, giving my very best.

I was giving it my all.

Perfect or not, I could not have done better.

Just thinking about trying to be 'more' than I was is, exhausting. Frankly, I couldn't have been 'more' than I was being, and even if I could have been, it wouldn't have changed a thing. My husband hit The Fool Button despite my best efforts, and he would have still hit The Fool Button regardless. Regardless if I'd been, what? 10% more physically attractive? 15% more interesting in dinner conversation? If I'd been 20% more sexually adventurous I would have freaked my husband out and possibly terrified him... and me...

Think of it more like your house burning down to the ground.

You still own the land.

You decide to rebuild a house.

Doesn't have to be an exact replica of the previous house.

You can make changes, improvements.

Prior to our 'real' DDay, DDay2, a little over 3 years ago, I would have sworn to you that materially changing the fundamentals of our marriage was not likely, much less possible. I wouldn't and do not wish infidelity on anyone, not my worst enemy, and I do NOT recommend it as some sort of change agent,

but it was the kick in my own ass that I needed to blow up a huge variety of dysfunctional shit, established patterns, and a whole bunch of bullshit excuses and piss poor behavior.

Bonus round, thanks to standing up to infidelity and saying, "NO. NOT ACCEPTABLE. AND NEITHER ARE YOU, IF YOU BRING IT INTO MY LIFE," I found my Size 9 Bitch Boots and kicked a whole contingent of narcissistic assholes out of my (and subsequently, our) life.

NO. YOU DO *NOT* TREAT ME LIKE THIS. NO.

That, interestingly enough, was a very important and useful object lesson for my husband. I'd put up with a butt ton of this bullshit behavior from bullshit assholes for his benefit. Watching me 'lop off heads' left, right and sideways, with genuine conviction and without regret was, LOL, 'informative' for my husband.

I read a few of a series of popular 'how to/self help' books aimed at women and their approach to relationships and marriage. This was before DDay2. I wasn't reading those books because of infidelity.

The authors posited that sexual infidelity was the realistic, functional end of a marriage.

I believe that is true.

Sexual/romantic infidelity *is,* in my humble opinion, the end of the marriage/that romantic relationship. Period.

Why?

Because sexual and romantic exclusivity and fidelity (whatever that means to the couple who agrees to it and signs onto it) is the one, single characteristic that differentiates that relationship from every other relationship.

Once that's gone,

What differentiates this, our, relationship from your relationship with your mother?

With your sister?

With your interactions with the cashier at the grocery store?

With said random coworker?

With your housekeeper?

With your dog walker?

With your financial advisor? With your banker? With your accountant?

With, even, your platonic best friend?

Nothing, that's what.

I did not say my wedding vows to end up regulated and dispensed into a package deal of domestic, purely practical, pragmatic, utilitarian, household roles. I can and have done that, but if my husband robs me of my special role in this relationship? Why bother. Seriously. Why fucking bother. =(

So yeah, that romantic/sexually exclusive relationship is *OVER.*

Can you build a new relationship, with the same person?

Sure.

If both people want it.

So, so many factors can, do and will impact your decision.

And your decision will take a bit.

It will evolve.

You don't have to decide right now.

There is no 'right' answer. There's only the answer that's right for you.

And that answer lies within your heart, and within your marriage, NOT in any one book.

[This message edited by marriageredux959 at 5:12 AM, Friday, October 1st]

Is there any hope of happiness again?

ABSOLUTELY !!!

If you read a book that is anti-R...you will think there is no way to have a successful R. That's all this is...so please don't feel too bummed.

If you read any of a number of people's posts on here who are happily in R...you will see that R can be very HAPPY .

The thing is...when you are OUT of infidelity...you find it hard to stay on a site like this. I never understood when I first joined...looking for hope...why people left this site when they happily reconciled. I understand it now .

Just like EVERY traumatic event in our lives...at first it is all we think about. But in time...as we heal...we get our bearings and move forward again . We never forget the traumatic events...but they don't define our lives .

As long as BOTH of you are ALL IN...not only can you be happy...you WILL be happy...I am living proof !!!

I haven't really posted in a while, but felt I needed to weigh in. IMHO cheating in a nutshell isn't anti R. It's just brutally honest. If your marriage has been rocked by infidelity, chances are, it is over. Longitudinal studies that track couples 5 years out from Dday report that something like 70% of couples do not stay together. Of those 30% of couples that do not divorce, the vast majority of BS's report that they are either unhappy or indifferent. Few, very few of BS'S report that they are better than ever. Of course, having been saved ftom the gallows, many WS's claim that things are great, but this does not synchronize with their partners. This is the ugly, unvarnished truth of infidelity. It sucks and ruins stuff.

But the ARIC or affair recovery Industrial complex would have us believe, we can all R from infidelity, just like all if us can become astronauts, all we gave to do is work hard. And if we fail, it is because we were not good enough...yet again.

Now, there are couples that have recovered from Infidelity, but as the data suggests, they are the exception rather than the rule. Usually, they have an amazing WS who moved heavan and earth, coupled with a BS who possesses the patience of job and the forgiveness of God himself.

All cheating in a nutshell does is lift the slice of bread on the shit sandwich we've been served and asks us if we really want to take a bite. Is that any different from asking a WS for complete transparency so that we know exactly what it is we are forgiving?

[This message edited by Justsomeguy at 5:32 AM, Friday, October 1st]

I agree with JustSomeGuy.
I say this honestly and without irony, guile nor cynicism.
His signature says it all.
Again, I say this honestly and without irony, guile nor cynicism.

It's a knife's edge, and once put in this situation, we each fall on one side of it or the other.

Occam's Razor comes to mind.

We may not enjoy the simplest answer, one way or the other. Honestly, I do NOT prefer where I ended up, there is way too much ambiguity and ambivalence and compromise for me, in the process of/on the way to 'the simplest answer',

but...

It is what it is.

The most direct answer is often the most direct, and perhaps the most accurate answer.

Do I believe that my husband will cheat again?
Sorry not sorry, in a fundamental way, it really doesn't matter.
That question has already been answered.
That book is already written.
It cannot be unwritten, changed, or altered.

We can, perhaps, with God's grace, write another, a different book.

But if either one of us reverts back to the trajectory of the original script, well then, that book is already written.
And so is my response.

As JustSomeGuy notes, that's a HUGE FUCKING ENDEAVOR, for mere mortals.

I read it just recently. Wish I had learned of it earlier. We are about to hit the 6th year post d-day. We are staying together because I chose to. Easy it is not, by any means. Especially when you have an idiot for a spouse who out of pride, stubbornness, fear, and stupidity refused to just tell the truth in the first place. Instead she spun a web of lies even a spider could get stuck in! That damaged me, but she has to live with the consequences the rest of her life.

I found the book cathartic. It almost felt like the hug I never got. I found it to be like the cloud of people who gather around you in some fictional movie scene and put their arms around you and tell you it will be ok.

No, the book is not encouraging. But I didn’t read it to be supported in my decision to stay, to reconcile. I read it to be set free of all the garbage I had believed. I read it to feel validated. I read it not for us, but for me.

I have a copy & have read it at least twice - it's a way to put the cheater mindset into my perspective (is that confusing)

Justsomeguy and marriageredex959 already posted what I was going to add -

specifically the info in the book is "input from people who wrote letters to them" (et al) - so the perspective is essentially from the betrayed point of view.

If you perceived as "anti R" - my guess is that is how you interpret - others - no so much

I suggest you read "The Body Keeps the Score" - Bessel van de Kolk - not a casual read

IMHO cheating in a nutshell isn't anti R.

You don't have to take MY word for it...just look at the posts from people on this site in the thread about the book in "The Book Club" Forum . I've never read the book...and I don't intend to thanks to those posts talking about how the book is ANTI R. That book is NOT where I am . I am definitely PRO R because that is where I am.

This is another thing that is interesting on this site. People who are OUT of infidelity...who have made it successfully to the other side ARE happy...contented...and at PEACE . But we get told that OUR truth is not REAL . For ME...it is simply that those who don't believe me just haven't experienced the JOY that comes from a true R...so they believe it can't be. I get that.

For instance...MOST people who end up on this site have said that they never knew what infidelity was REALLY like until they were IN infidelity. It is the exact same instance for those of us who are OUT of infidelity . I never thought I could be in THIS place in my relationship with my H after he confessed to his A. Especially since I had experienced infidelity in my 1st M...tried going through R...and ended up deciding to D. Once a cheater always a cheater was my experience. I was WRONG...and I freely and happily admit it .

We who have experienced infidelity can TRY to explain the devastation it causes to those who have never experienced it. Most of the time though a person who has never experienced infidelity cannot fathom how devastating it actually IS. I have seen it written too many times on here by people who didn't know UNTIL it happened to them.

In the same sense...we who have experienced the other side...where we are TRULY in a committed...faithful...HAPPY R...can SHOUT IT OUT on here often and without any reservation. But people who are NOT on the other side yet simply can't perceive it. I can't tell you how many times I have had people on here send me private messages saying how discouraging it is to tell THEIR happy R story...only to be told that they are actually in denial...or they are one of the RARE cases who actually had true R.

All I can say is that THIS site was a Godsend to me . I was Blessed to join this site when DeeplyScared...one of the founding members...was still alive. SHE KNEW what it felt like to be on the other side...and her posts gave me HOPE . MangledHeart wouldn't put in so MUCH effort to keep this site up if HE didn't feel the same way as SHE did! Read the posts in the "Positive Reconciliation Stories" thread that is pinned at the top of this Forum. They will give you a balanced view compared to that book . One poster also wrote to read the taglines of those people in that thread. There are some taglines from people who had positive stories in that thread...but then went on to D instead of R. However...you will notice that those are FEW and far between . I completely understand why those who are happily in R don't post much on here anymore. I hope that one day we will ALL understand that .

We are ALL on different paths on our journey OUT of infidelity. My path out of infidelity in my 1st M was very different than my path in THIS M. What helped ME navigate through all of the GREAT advice given on this site was what is often said on here...take the advice that helps YOU...and leave the rest .

Horse pucky. Today is my 33rd anniversary, 17 years post DDay. We're happy, healthy, peaceful, in love, and we actually LIKE each other. lol Keep the faith!

Also, ditto to everything Want2BHappyAgain said.

[This message edited by 13YearsR at 3:37 PM, Friday, October 1st]

To be in R you need to set requirements and be ready walk if the requirements aren't met.

Gently, Humbled, you continue to stifle yourself. That's not R.

t/j

Happy Anniversary 13YearsR !!!

end t/j

It is a book with information that is presented for a point of view.

I'm 13 years out. We successfully R'd. Feel free to read my profile.

You absolutely can R and heal and be happy again. And think about what happened and not be crushed or emotional about those thoughts. It becomes a part of who you are and your life story.

I can honestly say now as I think back on my Hs A, and the first couple of years after they were a time of great growth and change for me emotionally. I broke my horribly Codependent nature and became a much stronger person. My H became much healthier mentally too and learned how to deal with issues that would either be avoided or become some big giant blow up to now just actually dealing with them in a healthy normal way.
Together our relationship is stronger and better.

Do I think about it often still? Not really. I stay and post here because there were a few folks back in the early days that truly saved me and helped to keep me sane. I hope that I am able to do the same for others.

Sisoon, hit me with the 2x4. Tell what im doing wrong. What do I need to so?

Thank you, Want2BHappyAgain!

I'm 13 years out.

You wanna trade screen names? Oh, wait...

Do I think about it often still? Not really. I stay and post here because there were a few folks back in the early days that truly saved me and helped to keep me sane. I hope that I am able to do the same for others.

Ditto to everything you said, but especially this. IRL, too, my H and I are both open about having survived infidelity. We've made ourselves approachable and take great pride in helping to guide others.

I hadn’t read this thread because I, like several others who posted, haven’t read the book and don’t want to.

Humbled, I haven’t seen any of your other posts so I don’t know anything about your back story. So I want to bring you cautious hope. My H (JMSSC) and I are walking through year 10 after our M blew apart. We renewed our vows on our 15th anniversary, and God willing, will celebrate our 25th in December. We are restored. Reconciled doesn’t seem to cover the magnitude of change that occurred in us separately and together. That is the hope I can share. We were as broken as two people could possibly be, and our M was an absolute shambles.

Here is the caution. I feel very much that if our M could be restored, if JM and I could R, then R is absolutely possible for any couple. But just because a M can be saved/restored doesn’t always mean that it should. I don’t know anything about your W or your story so I wouldn’t presume to advise you on could vs should in your situation.

I started out to write that we’d had several rough patches before the final implosion but that’s not accurate. Our M was a disaster from the start. I was living in active addiction to opiates. I was a single mom, almost 30 and my 1st H abandoned me and my son for an OW. JM was 22. All the details don’t matter. I got sober in 2008 and he was deep into an EA with his previous GF. I didn’t know about SI at that time. I confronted him when I got home from rehab and then rugswept because I had to concentrate on staying sober. But I swore to him then I wouldn’t forgive him again. I spent the next 2 years in counseling and AA. So when I found evidence of another A, I acted very decisively. I was heartbroken but I kicked him out of the bedroom. (He slept in his truck for 2 nights before I let him sleep in the game room). He moved into an apartment and we were S for 6 months. I spent most of that time planning to D. He seemed to find remorse and begged me on his knees to try again. I then had a 6 week false R before all of the truth blew up. That’s when I found SI.

Understand that at that point I DID NOT WANT R. I was absolutely done with him and his BS. He was the epitome of a cheater—trickle truth, blame shifting, DARVO, all of it. I wanted desperately for him to get his head out of his ass for our sons’ sakes. But I had no desire or hope for our M.

But JM reached the end of himself. He sought help, dug into IC, and started going to church. I was unaware of any of that because I refused to discuss anything but kids and finances with him. He did every bit of the work to convince me he was worth another chance. I saw the change very dramatically. My faith is the most important thing about me. And he met me there. I dragged my feet until God revealed to me that JM was the man I could trust with my heart. (I’m sure that sounds weird but this is who I am.)

If your W is willing to humble herself, put you first over her own discomfort, and do the work to prove herself a safe partner, there is hope. But here’s the part of my story that some people don’t care for. I had to humble myself too. I wasn’t perfect. There were things about me that had to change too.

I’m still here for the same reason as tushnurse and want2behappyagain. There were people who gave me hope at the beginning of this journey and I want to pay it forward.