SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi all, brand new to this sort of thing (not exactly a club you'd strive to be in!).

A little over a month ago, my wife gave me the "it feels like we're roommates, ILYBINILWY" speech. We've been together for almost 18 years now. We have 3 kids together. Of course it hit me unexpectedly because she's never said anything was wrong. So of course not knowing what to do I broke down in tears, the begging and pleading and "I'll change I swear" speeches started.

Anyway.. fast forward a couple of weeks (after a couple more breakdowns on my part), I go out to the kitchen one night after we had settled down into bed (yes, still sharing a bed). On my way, I notice her smartwatch on edge of the fireplace vibrating. Picking it up just so it wouldn't fall on the floor, I see some FB messages from a guy she knew from highschool (I knew him too, we weren't in the same social circles. She went to a different school than us, she knew him from sports). They were never "intimate" back then, but were very close friends. The messages were not normal messages you'd expect to see from just a friend.

So at the time, I just put the watch down, I get my drink and go back to bed where I see her on her phone, but she's just playing a game at this point. I don't say anything. The next day, after she left for work (I WFH, she doesn't) I snuck onto her Facebook on our shared computer. I was not prepared for what I saw. He had messaged her out of the blue after almost 2 years of no messages (and I looked back, there was nothing other than the casual "hey how are you, how are the kids" sorta messages back then). Reading everything, it started out casual, but quickly started to get more than that. I could tell based on the conversations that her feelings had been renewed about him, and this was likely what had driven her to the "roommates" speech. He messaged her about a month and a half before she said anything to me, but at the point she gave her speech their conversations were in full swing, sending pics back and forth, some suggestive messages about what they'd do, etc. She's also told her best friend that she wants him, and she's in full support of her (and based on her messages to my wife, she's been sneaking around on her guy too, so no wonder she's saying go for it).

So needless to say, I was devastated. That was a month ago. I haven't said anything to her about anything yet, I just kept my head down and "worked on me". Since then, I've taken a few steps to try to get my head back on, I read "No More Mr Nice Guy", and holy crap, I know everyone says "did they write this about me??" but it's true.. So much of what I was reading described me to a T.

So now I'm up to today. Yesterday I came across these forums, and I've been reading other stories on JFO, I'm not alone in this situation. So many posts full of great advice.

I do want to work towards R, I wrote a "script" that I wanted to say to her last night but I couldn't find the nerve. I'm going to practice it some more. I booked myself in for some IC, my first session is tomorrow. I don't know if I should just tell her everything tonight or wait until after my first session tomorrow, I just know I have to get it out in the open before the EA turns into a PA. I know nothing has happened yet based on their messages, and he is married too.. He doesn't have any time away himself, but he is in a band, and my wife had shown interest in going to see him play next month at a local bar.

Anyway. Just had to get it out there.. Writing it down makes it more real I guess.

Sorry you had to join this club, but you will receive good support. Most importantly, take care of you. Get stronger for you. Read in the healing library. Stop doing the pick me dance. It never works.

Eat healthy, exercise, get good sleep. Your WW is actively cheating. Don’t jump into wanting R too soon. Your emotions will evolve and change and your WW has to show that she is even a possible candidate for continuing to be your W. If it were me, I would see an attorney to learn my rights. I would also contact the AP’s OBS and inform her of the A. Shining light on their cheating tends to take the A out of fantasy land, and she could be a good ally.

Always value yourself. Accept no blame for her cheating. Nothing you did or didn’t do in your M caused her to cheat. Stay calm during your confrontation. Remember you are the prize and deserve a faithful partner. Good luck.

First things first, sorry that you're here.

Okay, now for the advice..

You have to be willing to blow up your marriage to save it. Once you confront, DO NOT accept any blame for her actions. Make sure that you explain that her having a boyfriend will not be tolerated while you two are married. Contact with AP ends now, no exceptions, no "closure", no "goodbye", it just ends. Without telling your wife, contact OBS and inform her that your wife has crossed your boundaries, and expose him to the OBS.

I believe Beggar has a fantastic script to follow, I can't seem to find it on a quick search, but perhaps he can drop it here.

The quicker you act, the quicker healing can start but only if she works at it, you can not be the only person working towards R. R is not something that you offer, it is something she earns through her actions.

My suggestion on the confrontation — wait until you have had at last two counseling sessions so you can get some direction on what to do.

Your wife will deny it’s an affair. Be prepared for that.

Your wife will most likely blame you - saying you are growing apart or disconnected blah blah blah. Be prepared to have a response to that.

You are not ASKING her if she’s been inappropriate and crossed the line. You are TELLING her you KNOW she’s cheated on you by having an emotional affair and sexting.

Have a list of demands for her such as you have access to all her social media including all devices and passwords, she unfriends and blocks the other man (OM) and you insist she gets counseling.

If she refuses counseling you need to have a response to that. Read up on the 180. It is to help you get out from the continued affair or lack of remorse. It’s also possible it will pull her head out of the clouds in thinking this affair is something more than a fantasy.

I lived with my H’s 4 year EA that he refused to admit and refused to end. I KNEW it was happening but when it finally ended he had no remorse or regret.

He then had another affair that almost caused a D. As the first affair was rugswept (crucial mistake) he found it very easy to have a second affair.

Have a plan. And a back up plan if she refuses to end the affair. You should not have to live with a cheating spouse.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 2:02 PM, Wednesday, January 19th]

Sorry you are here. Make sure you quietly have your finances locked down BEFORE you confront. Important papers etc. copied. Just in case. If they haven't bonded yet maybe a wake up call will work. You will know quickly enough by her actions. Good luck.

I do want to work towards R

Why? I don't think it's wrong to want R -- most betrayed people do because 1. They are faithful, loyal individuals and 2. up until a millisecond before they found out (or before their spouse began acting like a space alien) they thought they were in a good marriage.

But it would be productive to really drill down and ask yourself why.

Because here is what is about to happen: You're going to go through waves and waves of anger and grief that are going to last for years.

Here are some things to consider:

1. Infidelity is a devastating -- and it takes years to heal. In most cases, it takes upwards of 5 years just to get a sense of equilibrium restored. Often, by the time a betrayed spouse reaches the 5-year mark, many find themselves feeling decidedly less passionate about the partner who betrayed them, once the shock wears off. They start to wonder, rightly, just exactly what it is they bargained for to "get back." As they look at their spouse who betrayed them, they find them less and less attractive. The fact that your WW hasn't consummated this yet (as far you know, and you don't know if she's done this before) really does nothing to ameliorate the devastation you are about to endure. It's going to come and it will hit you hard.

2. This is in part because infidelity is also a particularly pernicious form of abuse. This abuse is emotional, spiritual, mental and physical abuse (yes, physical abuse and you're already feeling the physical impact on your health -- just wait, it doesn't get better). Because you've been abused, your mind and body are in shock right now. Your heart and gut have a ton of neurons (not as many as your brain but a lot) and your heart and gut already know you have been abused. This toxic abuse is like a radioactive dirty bomb that has been detonated. The fallout radiation lasts for generations after the initial explosion.

3. As you work through this, your mind will gradually settle down, and you'll start to think more clearly. As you think more clearly, you're going to look back on this and steadily reassess your wife in the cold light of day. As you do, you will likely conclude that this betrayal represents a fundamental part of her personality. And you'd be right to think this. Her actions speak to a fundamental worldview, how she navigates reality and the choices she makes under pressure. As I say in my tagline, "True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

4. Your wife just failed this test badly. You know now, without a shred of doubt, exactly what sort of person you are married to. You're married to the type of woman who thinks nothing of striking up a sexual chat on Facebook and planning for sex behind her husband's back. This wasn't a mistake (waywards like to say "it was just a mistake" all the time, but you just got to see in practically real time the very intentional well-considered premeditated nature of your wife's abuse of your trust and her disregard for you).

5. I say this because, with respect to R, the wayward person has a high bar to meet. They really need to be a person worthy of R. Frankly, the vast majority of wayward spouses aren't worth it. They've demonstrated in stark terms how unworthy they are of their faithful spouse. R is a tremendously difficult process. If you read here on SI, you'll see a lot of people who are struggling with R. You'll read from a few who feel they are reconciled (and plenty of these are ambivalent about it). You'll also read from a very few standout wayward spouses who have worked very hard to be remorseful and helped to heal their spouse. They seem to be rare.

6. I think you are understating to yourself what has happened here as a way of protecting your psyche, and that's okay. But what was happened here is beyond momentous. It is a protective measure for many betrayed husbands to arrive here talking about "an emotional affair." But this is everything, friend. This really isn't an "emotional affair." I say all the time that emotional affairs are essentially just physical affairs hanging out in the waiting room for the sex to happen.

7. In your wife's case, she has gone directly after an old flame, heated up the rhetoric sexually, exchanged pics (a sexual act). This is a physical affair -- it's all over but the shoutin' as the old book said. Worse yet, she has a toxic enabling friend who is giving her the "you go, grrrlllll, yasssss Queen!" female empowerment routine. Worse even than all of that, you should consider that she used the ILYBINILWY as a cynical gambit to gaslight you. This was her way of laying the groundwork to come back and blameshift onto you ("but I already told you I considered us roommates, what did you expect? I have a right to my own haaaappppinesssss."). This sort of cynical gamesmanship speaks to a calculating and cold agenda on your WW's part. This is who you are married to.

8. I'm so glad you are reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy." I would also recommend the short book "The Way of the Superior Man." Those books are important in your case, because by leaping to offering R to your WW right away you are doing the pick me dance and Mr. Nice Guy routine big-time. Rethink this. Offering R -- without really knowing the entire story, whether she's done this before (at least somewhat likely) and whether she even has the potential for real remorse -- is incredibly premature.

8A. Your WW gave you the ILYBINILWY speech. Ironically, over time, you are likely to be the one who has the real, true feeling of ILYBINILWY. Perhaps just as importantly, when a woman gives this speech she has checked out of the marriage and lost attraction for her husband. This isn't your fault, but being Mr. Nice Guy, leaping to offering R, waiting around to confront her (and probably melting when her waterworks start to flow) are all going to send a message of weakness and passivity to her. In other words, you'll be confirming the bad reasoning she has for her ILYBINILWY. It will just make her feel that vapid sense of ennui all the more.

9. Lastly I would strongly consider getting STD tested for yourself, and immediately finding the OBS (other betrayed spouse) and sharing the FB messages with her. The sequence would be something like: A. Tell the OBS B. Confront your WW within a very short time period after that. The OBS has a right to know the kind of man she's married to. You'd want her to tell you if she knew. Her physical health from potential STD's is in danger.

[This message edited by Thumos at 2:52 PM, Wednesday, January 19th]

Also blow up her friend to her husband. That could do a lot of good as when they talk instead of how awesome cheating is they will be talking about how her life has been blown up and all the turmoil.

Hell you may want to blow up the AP’s marriage and her friends before you confront. A little fear and the knowledge that you know may save you some initial lying.

Wow.. Thank you for all the responses so far. It's great to know (unfortunate situation as it is) that there's a large community of support out there.

I'll give some clarifying points. I just finished going back through their entire history on FB (she hasn't deleted anything, she doesn't know that I know). He reached out to her first, then it just started back and forth as friendly catching up, but quickly escalated. Obviously he knew what he was doing, and so did she.

As for R, I know right now I'm not in the right mindset to even think of that. I'm still thinking from a "I need to fix this!" perspective and I don't fully comprehended everything. It's going to take some time for me to come to full terms with everything.

When I do confront my wife, I know she's going to ask how I know.. I obviously can't tell her. I'm just going to have to say "It doesn’t matter, it shouldn’t matter. Just know that I know."

I'm definitely still in the Nice Guy mindset and trying to break free.. It's only been a bit over 2 weeks since I read it. Last night I just outright told my wife I was going out for a walk after supper. She messaged me asking what was wrong, I seemed depressed, I just responded "all good :)"

I'm practicing what I want to say to her. I just know I'll flub it up and it's all going to come out as a jumble. It'll seem stupid but maybe I should print it off and read it like I'm reading a script or something. I don't know.

Now.. I guess I do want to confront the OBS, again, I have to work up the nerve to do that too. I obviously want her to know what's going on. She had known about their friendship years ago before the OM and OBS were married and that's why my WW was cutoff from him. He was always just friends with my WW, nothing beyond that (reading the messages now though he regrets not going for it at the time).

I've still got some more reading and self healing to do. I need to get this out sooner rather than later before it does escalate. I'll just have to suck it up and get it out.

When I do confront my wife, I know she's going to ask how I know.. I obviously can't tell her. I'm just going to have to say "It doesn’t matter, it shouldn’t matter. Just know that I know."

Your response to this is "You don't get to ask the questions here. Knock it off. Start telling the truth right now or GTFO."

I'm practicing what I want to say to her.

Don't overthink this.

Possible script:

"I know. Start telling the truth right now. Tell the truth about everything -- the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Don't start denying it. Don't insult me. You don't get to ask questions. You get to start telling the truth and spilling your guts or I am done. You have one chance to tell me the truth. If you lie, minimize, obfuscate, fudge the facts, try to shift blame for this, tell me it was a mistake, deflect, get all weepy and try to bribe me with sex, try to pressure me to sweep this under the rug or any other games WE ARE DONE. It's on you to figure out how to fix this. You'd better get to work right now and show me through actions, not words. Otherwise we can get divorce papers drawn up right now. I'm not going to babysit you or coddle you with a plan, but there are a few initial steps you can take right now:

-Turn your phone and access to all social media accounts over to me immediately or GTFO (Note: run retrieval software on her phone)

-Inform your parents in front of me and don't make excuses. Own your toxic choices for devastating our marriage.

-Write a NC letter immediately or GTFO

-Write a NC letter to your toxic enabling friend immediately or GTFO

-Write down a timeline of everything immediately

-After I've had time to read the timeline and ask more questions, you will take a polygraph. Don't try to talk me out of this or drag your feet or we are done.

-Get an STD test and show it to me (Note: If she hasn't had sex with him or anyone else, she would be willing to leap at the opportunity to get an STD test that shows she is disease-free.)

-Sign up for IC with a betrayal trauma specialist who will hold your feet to the fire and not allow you to bullshit your way through this

-Read the book "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" and write a plan for how you will implement the book

I haven't decided what to do. Your actions over the next 24 hours will weigh heavily in my decision.

If you really feel that the nonsense bullshit ILYBINILWY speech you gave me is how you actually feel, and that wasn't merely some vapid words you vomited out, then save me the trouble RIGHT NOW and go be with your dreamboat. He can have you, because I don't need to waste one more second of my life with such a shallow person.

Now pack your shit and go to the guest bedroom at the very least."

[This message edited by Thumos at 3:37 PM, Wednesday, January 19th]

Why not print everything and leave it on her pillow? Make copies. Show the section about her girlfriend cheating to her husband. And send them to the APs wife.

There will be fireworks, but you are putting her in a place to make a choice now that she has been busted. If she wants to fix this, which is most likely, then you send her to individual counseling.

If she doesn’t, better to know now.

I see no reason to play hide the ball while she wheedles it out of you in drips. Take your control back.

Why not print everything and leave it on her pillow?

I would not betray my source of information. I did this and it was a mistake. Just tell you know and she'd better start telling the truth, the whole truth, right now. Don't give her an inch. Don't give her an out (like don't make the mistake of saying you think this was an emotional affair.)

Just say "I know. You have one opportunity to tell the whole truth about everything, including past infidelities. I'm not going to accept drips and drabs and stretching this out. Tell me the whole truth right now. You don't know what I know. So if you continue to lie, that's your gamble. A lie now will result in a divorce."

To Thumos' list above I would add:

- And the "friend" who has been encouraging you and egging you on? Boom. Outta here.

Realize that none of us handle this situation perfectly. It’s emotional and you need to stay calm. But you will be okay. Think about what you need from her and your boundaries. Remember that there is something worse than living without your WW in your life. And that is being in a M where you share her with someone else.

Sorry you are here.

I would absolutely print copies of everything for yourself. You don't have to present it to her, but once you confront her you can bet she will go and delete everything. Put them in a safe place and do not reveal your source. This is a mistake I made and was pretty pissed at myself for not sending everything to myself. I got a handful of stuff, but she had the chance to delete a lot of it before I got my hands on it.

The trick is to say as little as possible. Biggers suggested speech from another thread

Wife. I love you and always envisioned us together forever. However I have realized that there is something immensely worse than not being with you, and that is sharing you with another man. I KNOW you are having an affair. No – don’t even try to deny it. I KNOW and have all the proof I need to be 100% convinced. I’m old-fashioned in that I don’t share my toothbrush nor my wife.
I’m not forcing you to be married. I absolve you of any expectations or responsibilities or role as my wife. You are free to be with OM, date OM, spend the night with OM, talk about him to your friends… Whatever. But not as my wife.

Until or unless you tell me in a very clear and vocal way that you want this marriage and commit to certain conditions (such as telling me the whole truth, total and accountable NC and committing to IC and MC) I am simply assuming you have chosen your infidelity over our marriage and I will continue with the termination of our marriage.
Don’t worry – there are laws in our state that ensure the process is about as fair as possible. There isn’t any rush, we need to find some way to cohabit while this process goes through, but I am starting the process of detaching from you emotionally and suggest you find an attorney to guide you through the process of the formal detachment.

I ask that for our children's sake you be discreet about the OM and keep him away from her and the house, but other than that feel free to spend as much time as you can with him. I would feel better if you aren’t around."Then leave.

You primary goal is to get out of infidelity as that is worse than being divorced and alone. Being in infidelity is toxic to your soul which in turn will become toxic to your family. I would suggest speaking to an attorney. I know you don't want D, but it's best to move towards right now is really the most likely outcome.
What you say is not up for debate. It is not a discussion. It is a statement of fact. Say your peace than leave. Go for a walk. That might be a good time to let the OBS know before your WW lets AP know so he can prepare his lies. Id save the letting the GFs SO know for later on. How she reacts to the above will tell you if there is any chance that she will cooperate and be a potential partner in R. If she sticks with denial, blames you, or flat out leaves for him you have your answer. If she comes clean she needs to do it fully without you telling her what you know and how. One of the questions she must answer is who else knows. This serves as another lie detection point. If her first reaction is to continue to lie, to delete the evidence or contact AP that is more data that tells you that you are really just Plan B. Good Luck it really sucks to be there.

I’m so sorry you find yourself here. You have received very good advice so far. You need to secure all the evidence first, including her cheating friends messages. You need to notify the OBS’s without warning and possibly before your confrontation. They will scatter like rats and not have an opportunity to get stories straight.

Best Wishes, you run this show now.

Don't have a script. Simply sit her down,and tell her you know she's been having an affair with OM. And then shut up. Let her do the talking. If she asks you anything,tell her you aren't the knew who will be answering questions.

Do not tell her you will be contacting his wife. She will warn him. By the time you speak to the OBS,she won't hear anything you say,because she will have been told you are abusive,jealous, and accusing every male acquaintance of your wife of having an affair with her.

Do have a list of requirements ready. The men who have the best chance,at saving their marriage,are assertive.

No social media since that's how she messaged him.

Full transparency. You get full access to all accounts, and her phone,passwords included .

She writes a full timeline.

She gets tested for stds. This may not have been her first affair

She answers all of your questions,without anger or defensiveness.

She must go NC with the friend,and OM. The friend knew,and encouraged this deplorable behavior

She gets into IC,to figure out why she did this.

Also..you will need to inform her friends husband that his wife is cheating.

Do not share this site with her.

Hi there Rollin,

I am sorry you have a reason to join us. You are still very early on in the process, and I would caution you against leading or offering Reconciliation right off the bat. Your goal needs to be get out of infidelity. If that is R, it is going to take A LOT of work on both of your parts. There is a chance that it may be D, because she may not be an ideal candidate for R. You just don't know yet. How she behaves upon confrontation and during the fallout will inform a lot of your decisions. Additionally, you may find your own feelings and desires will change as you go through this process. There is likely a ton of information you don't know. If she is able to do this, what else is she capable of? Are you the one lucky BS that found out everything there is to know about their unfaithful spouse? Not likely.

She is actively disrespecting you and your family. She is putting her children's future at risk to get her rocks off. I know your heart will take a little time to catch up to your brain, but your wife does not have your family's best interest at heart right now. The woman who is actively deceiving you is who she really is, despite all the good times your heart is clinging on to.

I am not saying you will get divorced. I am just saying your wife has a really fucking long way to go to be a safe partner from where she is now and there is a chance that she OR even you may not have it in you.

You also need to understand that you will go through all of the stages of grief- and in no particular order. Wait until that anger hits, man. Right now, you are just desperately trying to maintain the life and the future that you were comfortable in and had been planning on. You need to understand that no matter how this plays out, Divorce or Reconciliation, the life/future you had planned is not going to be happening. I am reconciling with my husband, but I will NEVER look at him or our relationship the same.

You need to understand that this was not your fault and that you will be okay again. Happy even. However, it is going to have to play out and how you play it is everything. Start by taking back your power. Understand what would happen in a divorce. Start focusing on yourself and your needs. When you are ready to confront, send the OBS the evidence so you can blow it up.
Bring that shit out into the open. Chances are, the OM is just looking for extra on the side, and when his life is blown up, he will drop your wife like a hot potato.

Rollin',

I will say this---NONE of the advice you have been given....including what I'm about to give....will be of much use until you get your emotional footing. Until you can strongly stand on your own two feet, and be able to react to HOWEVER YOUR WIFE RESPONDS, no amount of planning, rehearsing, and script following will help in what needs to be done.

Right now, you are wrought with fear. I get it, the other posters on this thread get it, and virtually every member here gets it. Most here will tell you that this is one of the most traumatic events that they have ever encountered in their lives.....and with good reason. Your world has suddenly changed. you are in a semi-real state of flux, and the fear of 'losing' everything that you not only had, but enjoyed immensely, is paralyzing. And due to this fear, (1) you're anxiety is going through the roof on just the thought on confrontation, and (2) you have no idea how to respond if you do not get the answer that you want. It is just so much easier to not do anything today in hopes of a solution tomorrow.

Unfortunately, there are no easy solutions. The one real solution, like it or not, is when YOU love and respect yourself enough to say "I am not going to live my life like this. With or without my wife, I deserve way better treatment than what she is showing. I would rather end this marriage than live in its current state." Those lines I just wrote are no good if they are part of a script. You literally have to feel it and mean it. Once you do, then you can move forward. There is a saying around here that it is much better to lose your spouse than to share your spouse, and I fully agree with that. The hardest part, besides the initial shock of discovering infidelity, is overcoming the fears of the unknown, and letting go of the outcome. You may want to reconcile, but there is a huge difference between 'wanting to reconcile' and 'reconciling at all costs'. What you need to do, right now, is to work on gathering your strength. How's that? You are already taking steps--reading books, reaching out here---these are good moves. Like it was already mentioned, I would recommend one, or a few, consultations with a divorce lawyer. Do this because it will give you a solid understanding of where you realistically stand to be if divorce became a reality. It will also take away one of your 'unknown' fears. The more knowledge that gain, the less it will let your imagination get the better of you. The object is to calm the fears with reality.

No matter what, this is painful, and will continue to be for some time. But the sooner that you act out of your best interests instead of acting out of fear, your road to recovery will be much quicker.

I'm practicing what I want to say to her. I just know I'll flub it up and it's all going to come out as a jumble. It'll seem stupid but maybe I should print it off and read it like I'm reading a script or something. I don't know.

Adding to previous posters, there is good practical information re what you're looking for in the book titled "Love must be tough" by James Dobson(available to read for free on archive org and you can skip religious stuff). Also, if you decide to confront in person, not in writing, then I would suggest recording this event to avoid the possibility that your WW never told you this or that as an example.

Strength to you and getting out of infidelity quickly one way or another!